The gifts of the indwelling presence.

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Galatians 5:22-23​

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. "

How do they determine the gifts come from God The Holy Spirit? Are they purified from sin so that God can dwell within them through Grace?

You have a Bible. The answers are all in there if you take the time to look.

 

[IoanC]

You have a Bible. The answers are all in there if you take the time to look.

The specifications of my tablet are not in the Bible. Does this mean the tablet is not a Gift from God?

 

[Carl Emerson]

What happened to the 'Peace that passes all understanding' ?????

 

[IoanC]

What happened to the 'Peace that passes all understanding' ?????

I think common sense becomes a virtue when peace seems to mean you are a vegetable.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Let the peace of God be the judge of all things in your heart...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The specifications of my tablet are not in the Bible. Does this mean the tablet is not a Gift from God?

No. You paid for it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

After a lot of thought over a period of time, I have come to the conclusion that the notion that one develops himself spiritually over time until he glows in the dark, is not a Biblical concept.

In fact, it is not about us at all. We don't become better people as we grow in grace. We remain the same in ourselves. What does develop is our increasing dependence on the promises of God and the teaching that the Holy Spirit gives us. The gifts of the Spirit never belong to us, nor are they extensions of our ability. They are the outworking of the ability of the Holy Spirit as we work in cooperation with Him.

In fact, instead of developing into super-Christians, which is all about self, we develop our faith in the sufficiency of God's Word and the Holy Spirit to do the work that He empowers us to do. The idea of developing ourselves spiritually is New Age. It takes the glory away from Christ because it can give the impression that as a super Christian I can accomplish great things through my own spiritually developed ability. This was the problem with those who Jesus refused to acknowledge at the Judgment. "Have we not prophesied, cast out demons and done mighty works in your name? Jesus replied: "I never knew you. Depart from Me you workers of iniquity." This is because the ones rejected by Christ have put the emphasis on "me, me, me" by thinking that power with God comes from puffing themselves up in some kind of New Age spiritual development until they just about glow in the dark. They think it is because of their own superior spirituality or holiness that achieves success in their lives and ministry.

This is the self deception in a person who dresses himself in a white suit and thinks he has a special anointing where no one can touch him - that he is above guidance and correction and accountable to no one but himself.

Jesus said that we need to become like little children if we are to inherit the kingdom of God. A child is totally dependent on his parents and caregivers. This is what a childlike faith is all about. "We have the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead."

King Saul was secure in his role when he was "little in his own eyes". But when he started thinking he was somebody, he fell out with God and ended up losing his kingdom and his life, and took some good people down with him.

Solomon had the right idea. At the end of his life, he concluded that "all is vanity". This was in spite of his great wisdom, which was a gift from God rather than any personal development; and his accomplishments and his wealth. He had risen to the top, and yet in the final analysis, all he could look for was the grave.

So I conclude that the quest for greater spiritual development in ourselves is a road to nowhere.

Just for clarity I ask the question - if God's peace that He promises us not a feeling as you seem to claim - then what is it ???

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just for clarity I ask the question - if God's peace that He promises us not a feeling as you seem to claim - then what is it ???

It is more of a witness in the spirit rather than an emotional feeling.

 

[IoanC]

No. You paid for it.

My money is from God. All good things are from God. And, there is a fine line between religion and superstition.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Jesus displayed these attributes long before He was baptised.

He dumbfounded the sages as a young boy.

 

[ARBITER01]

Jesus displayed these attributes long before He was baptised.

He dumbfounded the sages as a young boy.

The text says "the spirit" of wisdom and understanding, "the spirit" of counsel and might, "the spirit" of knowledge and of the feat of The LORD.

The only time The Holy Spirit was upon Him was after His water immersion and when He came back from the wilderness, not prior to that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The text says "the spirit" of wisdom and understanding, "the spirit" of counsel and might, "the spirit" of knowledge and of the feat of The LORD.

The only time The Holy Spirit was upon Him was after His water immersion and when He came back from the wilderness, not prior to that.

I appreciate your opinion but for me the Holy Spirit including the seven aspects listed in Isaiah 11, Jesus received at conception.

The empowering for ministry He received at Baptism. This was in fact the first Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

 

[biblelesson]

It is more of a witness in the spirit rather than an emotional feeling.

Yes, so true! It is more a witness in the spirit. It’s not easily explained as it is not us. It’s like a pouring down into your spirit: the shekinah glory.

It’s what’s described in John 3:8 KJV, “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

And because it’s so magnificent and glorious being in the presence of God by His Spirit, we can feel like David when he said in Psalm 51:11 KJV, “Cast me not away from thy presence; And take not thy holy spirit from me.”

It’s a glorious experience! Nothing on earth can compare. Those who have experience the pouring down of the Holy Spirit know exactly the glory and beauty of God’s Presence!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Am I wrong theologically to believe that Jesus came as God in the flesh - Father Son and Holy Spirit ???

 

[St. Helens]

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[Joy]

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[Presbyterian Continuist]

Am I wrong theologically to believe that Jesus came as God in the flesh - Father Son and Holy Spirit ???

I think the way you put it makes it seem that Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, rather than the three being separate persons, and Jesus is the second person in the Trinity. It is true that Jesus is God, but He is not the Father nor is He the Holy Spirit. Therefore it was God the Son who came in the flesh.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK back on track...

To further explain where I am coming from.

Jesus didn't need to be 'born again' like we do as He was indwelled by the Holy Spirit from conception.

Jesus presented God's wisdom from a young age before He was baptised later in life.

This is evidence that He was always indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

This also agrees with the Nicene Creed that He was fully man and fully God.

To be fully God without the Holy Spirit is to divide the trinity.

So then believers born again and indwelled by the Holy Spirit are also to be expressing the same attributes of God listed in Isaiah 11.

However in our case the flesh can block these Godly expressions so we must have this dealt with by the Power of the Spirit.

Now all I am describing is available to believers before being Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

This is not the Gifts of the Spirit in operation.

So I am putting this out there for critique - I haven't heard it taught but feel it has some merit.

Serious theological and scriptural responses most welcome.

This conclusion if correct encourages folks born again but not yet Baptised in the Spirit.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think the way you put it makes it seem that Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, rather than the three being separate persons, and Jesus is the second person in the Trinity. It is true that Jesus is God, but He is not the Father nor is He the Holy Spirit. Therefore it was God the Son who came in the flesh.

I believe in three separate persons in unity, always acting together. - Jesus said he who has seen me has seen the Father.

 

[ARBITER01]

OK back on track...

To further explain where I am coming from.

Jesus didn't need to be 'born again' like we do as He was indwelled by the Holy Spirit from conception.

Jesus presented God's wisdom from a young age before He was baptised later in life.

This is evidence that He was always indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

This also agrees with the Nicene Creed that He was fully man and fully God.

To be fully God without the Holy Spirit is to divide the trinity.

So then believers born again and indwelled by the Holy Spirit are also to be expressing the same attributes of God listed in Isaiah 11.

However in our case the flesh can block these Godly expressions so we must have this dealt with by the Power of the Spirit.

Now all I am describing is available to believers before being Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

This is not the Gifts of the Spirit in operation.

So I am putting this out there for critique - I haven't heard it taught but feel it has some merit.

Serious theological and scriptural responses most welcome.

This conclusion if correct encourages folks born again but not yet Baptised in the Spirit.

This is the text cited,...

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

The text says "UPON" Him, not inside Him.

Believers have the fruit given to them when they are born again and sealed with The Spirit, we do not have other aspects of The Spirit that are mentioned in Isa 11, nor did Jesus. They came later when the power of The Holy Spirit was given Him after his wilderness and temptations,... as scripture says.

We gotta remember, Jesus came here as the GOD-man, not GOD operating as GOD. He is our perfect example of righteousness to follow in the scriptures, so there was no time where He exhibited anything down here that we couldn't reach for and obtain also. He was obviously divine, but He was not operating as GOD down here.

We are to read our bibles and cast down imaginations.