The fascinating reformed theology paradox of Hebrew 6:4-6

[Aviel]

What makes you say that?

Because Satan was not made in "God's Image""....' and Adam was made in God's Image.

Of creation at the time, satan was the most perfect being

And the most Beautiful and beguiling.

He's was always a very clever devil and He still is....

He conned Adam out of Universal Dominion, and thus achieved down here for a time, what he was trying to attain up there....
This is why the word of God refers to Satan as the "god of THIS world".

If a person was to seek forgiveness for their betrayal, it is within Jesus to forgive that person. But if they don't, their chains await them in a pit surrounded by fire.

If a person is born again, then God does not count their sin against them, at all.
Why not?'
Because God has already judged Jesus for the sin of "the world".

Read these..

2 Corinthians 5;19

John 1:17

Romans 4:8

I know of a person that it strongly in satanism who used to be a Christian. She had an accident that paralyzed her from the waist down. Satan was right there to help her blame GOD for it and turn her towards witchcraft and satanism. She's still in it.

Not uncommon for a born again Christian to become bitter against God for some situation that perhaps Calvinism has deceived them to believe was God caused.

We have to remember that Jesus is God on Earth.
And never did Jesus cause sickness or harm or death, to anyone.
As a matter of Fact, Jesus had to be careful when He raised different people from the dead, and not say....."now all come forth"....as had He done that, then every grave would have opened and that a lot of graves, worldwide.

Sometimes life is cruel, but God is never Cruel.
And the Devil is never anything but Cruel, and he harms people, and God often gets blamed for it.

Will she seek forgiveness before her death? I doubt it.

If she's born again, then there is no forgiveness she needs to seek, and that is because the Blood of Jesus and the Cross of Christ always keep God at peace with His redeemed, even if they are angry with Him, or have just become very backslidden.

Salvation is a blood covenant that God has provided to "all who will come" and if you do, then you are under the Blood Atonement, for as long as God exists, no matter how you behave later, or believe later.

See, the Salvation of God is not based on how WE behave, .. its based on What Jesus has FINISHED on The Cross, that we RECEIVE from God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

In the Greek that is: "when having turned."

Jesus prayed for Peter's rejection of (turning from) his denial

what?

no, Peter denied Jesus and Jesus warned about men not confessing him before men. Jesus said if you deny me I will deny you...Peter had to repent of this and he did have godly sorrow which worketh reprentance

 

[LoveofTruth]

Because Satan was not made in "God's Image""....' and Adam was made in God's Image.

and yet Jesus said we shall be as the angels of heaven

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30 KJV)

 

[Clare73]

what?

no, Peter denied Jesus and Jesus warned about men not confessing him before men. Jesus said if you deny me I will deny you...Peter had to repent of this and he did have godly sorrow which worketh reprentance

He had to repent of his denial (which denial was to save his skin, and not a loss of faith).

In context, that denial did not mean he did not love/believe Jesus and had to be converted back to faith in him.
It only meant that he had sinned against his faith and against Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

Because Satan was not made in "God's Image""....' and Adam was made in God's Image.

But they still fell in that perfection.

If a person is born again, then God does not count their sin against them, at all.
Why not?'
Because God has already judged Jesus for the sin of "the world".

Read these..

2 Corinthians 5;19

John 1:17

Romans 4:8

Not uncommon for a born again Christian to become bitter against God for some situation that perhaps Calvinism has deceived them to believe was God caused.

We have to remember that Jesus is God on Earth.
And never did Jesus cause sickness or harm or death, to anyone.
As a matter of Fact, Jesus had to be careful when He raised different people from the dead, and not say....."now all come forth"....as had He done that, then every grave would have opened and that a lot of graves, worldwide.

Sometimes life is cruel, but God is never Cruel.
And the Devil is never anything but Cruel, and he harms people, and God often gets blamed for it.




If she's born again, then there is no forgiveness she needs to seek, and that is because the Blood of Jesus and the Cross of Christ always keep God at peace with His redeemed, even if they are angry with Him, or have just become very backslidden.

Salvation is a blood covenant that God has provided to "all who will come" and if you do, then you are under the Blood Atonement, for as long as God exists, no matter how you behave later, or believe later.

See, the Salvation of God is not based on how WE behave, .. its based on What Jesus has FINISHED on The Cross, that we RECEIVE from God.

The text of Hebrews quoted at the start of this thread describes someone "turning from" the GODLY things they experienced and GOD Himself. That is describing betrayal of their own choice, the same thing that satan did.

To think that a person such as this will automatically be forgiven of anything they do is not understanding the text of Hebrews quoted, and speculating at best.

 

[Aviel]

Agreed. . .but someone had to execute the sentence.

Yes. Pilate gave the sentence and the soldiers carried it out.

There is a movie...

This one..... Its really good....... and it has to do with what we are discussing...
Maybe you've seen it ???
-

Agreed. . .but murdering the Messiah, knowingly or unknowingly, is an offense against God.

Jesus said....."no man takes my life from me, but i lay it down willingly"..

Jesus went to the Cross, because of the "Joy set before Him"...

So, if we think of the Crown of Thorns.. then that is for our sins we've committed in our thought life.
If we think of the nails in His hands/wrists.. that is for all we ever touched or held that we should never have never touched or held.
Nails in his feet for all the places we went that we should have never gone.

= Thank you : JESUS

 

[Aviel]

and yet Jesus said we shall be as the angels of heaven

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30 KJV)

The context is that "as the angles dont marry".. nether will the born again, in Heaven.

@Love of the Truth = Angels don't marry, because all Angels are...... MALES......

 

[Clare73]

Yes. Pilate gave the sentence and the soldiers carried it out.
There is a movie...
This one..... Its really good....... and it has to do with what we are discussing...
Maybe you've seen it ???
Jesus said....."no man takes my life from me, but i lay it down willingly"..

Agreed. . .but he was still betrayed and murdered (Ac 7:51-52), of which they were guilty.

Jesus went to the Cross, because of the "Joy set before Him"...

So, if we think of the Crown of Thorns.. then that is for our sins we've committed in our thought life.
If we think of the nails in His hands/wrists.. that is for all we ever touched or held that we should never have never touched or held.
Nails in his feet for all the places we went that we should have never gone.

= Thank you : JESUS

 

[Aviel]

Agreed. . .but he was still betrayed and murdered (Ac 7:51-52), of which they were guilty.

Your verse is describing the Old Testament Prophets whom the Jews murdered, and think about this...regarding the murder of Jesus The Lord.

All of those Jews who wanted Jesus to die.....the Religious leaders, most of all........they had murdered Jesus in their heart long before the Romans nailed The Lord to the Tree.

So, the hearts of those Hateful Religious Jews is the real murder found..., and The Christ on the Cross, is actually a Sacrifice for our sin.

See that is the Amazing thing about it..

The DEVIL, who is a "murderer from the beginning".. .Jesus said....thought that Having Jesus killed was going to solve HIS issue.

In Fact he was just fulfilling the GENESIS prophecy of : "and the seed of the woman shall CRUSH Your HEAD"// (The Serpent)..

And Jesus called these Religious Leaders "you brood (offspring) of VIPERS".. = seed of the Devil.. Children of the Devil.

"you are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL'.... you are the progeny of the original Serpent in the Garden.

 

[Clare73]

Your verse is describing the Old Testament Prophets whom the Jews murdered,

Amazing how much you miss, you might try reading it again. . .

"The Righteous One (Jesus Christ). . .you have betrayed and murdered him." (Ac 7:52).

 

[Aviel]

Amazing how much you miss, you might try reading it again. . .

"The Righteous One (Jesus Christ). . .you have betrayed and murdered him." (Ac 7:52).

and you left out "killed the prophets"..

So, I didnt miss any of it..

Jesus is a Blood Atonement; and a New Covenant, and that is The Cross of Christ.

"without the shedding of Blood, there is no forgiveness"... and Jesus shed His Blood on the Cross., willingly, and said that "NO MAN takes my life."
And that means, no soldier or Pharisee.

See, when you give your life for another, and you are murdered instead of them, that is a Sacrifice.

"laying your life down", and you are murdered.... is not the same as just a Murder, where someone kills their brother out of ENVY, such as Cain did, when he murdered Abel.

Now the Jews did contribute to the ending of Jesus's life, but it was Jesus who laid His life down for the "sin of the world".

 

[ARBITER01]

and you left out "killed the prophets"..

So, I didnt miss any of it..

Jesus is a Blood Atonement; and a New Covenant, and that is The Cross of Christ.

"without the shedding of Blood, there is no forgiveness"... and Jesus shed His Blood on the Cross., willingly, and said that "NO MAN takes my life."
And that means, no soldier or Pharisee.

See, when you give your life for another, and you are murdered instead of them, that is a Sacrifice.

"laying your life down", and you are murdered.... is not the same as just a Murder, where someone kills their brother out of ENVY, such as Cain did, when he murdered Abel.

Now the Jews did contribute to the ending of Jesus's life, but it was Jesus who laid His life down for the "sin of the world".

Just out of curiosity,..... are you approaching this topic with a "once saved always saved" position?

 

[Clare73]

and you left out "killed the prophets"..

So, I didnt miss any of it..

< sigh >

The point under discussion is the murder of the Messiah, not of the prophets.

 

[Aviel]

But they still fell in that perfection.

The became "fallen angels".

They became Demonic Spirits, down here.

When Jesus was "casting out a demon" it was one of them....

The text of Hebrews quoted at the start of this thread describes someone "turning from" the GODLY things they experienced and GOD Himself. That is describing betrayal of their own choice, the same thing that satan did.

Yes.

They made a CHOICE, because Angels, just Like Humans, have FREE WILL.

CHOICE is : Free Will., and we all make thousands of choices a day.

These Angels.... chose to follow the Devil.
Adam chose to do the same, as when you submit to the devil, you are kneeling in submission to HIS purpose and will.

That is the "fall of Adam".. .its literally Adam falling to his knees before the Devil, and the Devil became His owner.

Adam's FALL, is the original fall of us all.

And the 2nd Adam, who is JESUS...came to bring us back to God, which frees us from our fall and our sin, and frees us from the Devil.

It does not free you from Temptation.. but the empowering of the Holy Spirit gives you power over the world, the flesh, and the devil.

To think that a person such as this will automatically be forgiven of anything they do is not understanding the text of Hebrews quoted, and speculating at best.

The Cross of Christs is where God became a man, and died for not just your sin and mine, but for the sin of the world.

He paid for it, and its paid for... but its not applied as our SALVATION..... until Christ is becomes a person's Savior = by Faith.

Once you CHOOSE to give your faith in Christ to God.. then God takes your sin, and Christ dies for it..

But there is more.....

= God takes the Law, that was defining you as a sinner, and removes it from you, so that you are never again defined as a sinner, once you become "not under the law, but under GRACE" = a born again Christian.

 

[Aviel]

Just out of curiosity,..... are you approaching this topic with a "once saved always saved" position?

I only approach teaching the NT from this point of View.

"Pauline Theology"., as He defined it.

 

[Aviel]

< sigh >

The point under discussion is the murder of the Messiah, not of the prophets.

I only stated that you left out that part of your verse.

So, we agree that the Romans, according to Pilate's order, scourged Jesus, and beat Jesus and Crucified Jesus.

Jesus said that He was "laying His life down". and that "no man takes my life from me". John 10:18

 

[Clare73]

I only stated that you left out that part of your verse.

So, we agree that the Romans, according to Pilate's order, scourged Jesus, and beat Jesus and Crucified Jesus.

Jesus said that He was "laying His life down". and that "no man takes my life from me". John 10:18

And Scripture states that he was murdered (Ac 7:52). . .those are not contradictory.

Your point?

 

[ARBITER01]

I only approach teaching the NT from this point of View.

"Pauline Theology"., as He defined it.

You didn't answer my question,.... are you holding to a position of "once saved always saved?"

If you continue to refuse to answer my question, then you're answering it.

 

[ARBITER01]

The became "fallen angels".

They became Demonic Spirits, down here.

When Jesus was "casting out a demon" it was one of them....

Again,.... out of curiosity,..... does it say in scripture that fallen angels became demonic spirits that could inhabit humans down here?

 

[Aviel]

And Scripture states that he was murdered (Ac 7:52). . .those are not contradictory.

Your point?

Jesus didnt say He was murdered.
He said He laid down His life..

The Jews are responsible for their Christ Rejection..., and the Romans are responsible for the nails and the crown and the tree.

However, Jesus was Born for this.. "cup"/