Slopping the hogs.

[OldWiseGuy]

I would if I could, but I have to work, so I can't help you.

Just call it wildflowers.

Then Roundup it is.

 

[Galatea]

Then Roundup it is.

Sorry about that. Maybe next time.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sorry about that. Maybe next time.

It's been fun.

 

[Galatea]

It's been fun.

Yes, maybe I'll see you around sometime.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

I think you are over simplifying the situation. Poor people are often poor in multiple areas. Poor in education, time and geography. Poor in education; people generally know how to cook what they have been raised on. Poor people focus on buying cheap food and making it stretch. Outside of the ethnic populations that use them- most poor people don't know how inexpensive and healthy lots of legumes (beans, lentils, nuts, etc) are. They aren't going to randomly come across such info because it isn't popular culture food. It isn't like we really teach nutrition or model it in school programs How do you get that info to them if they aren't looking for it? They may be poor in time, don't have the time to cook some of these dishes. Some people eat so much convenience/fast food because they have very little time between commitments. Poor in geography; they may not even be able to locally source certain items. Have you ever heard of a food desert? When I was a kid we went to the store closest to us often because that was the least costly in terms of transportation and time. So you were stuck with whatever they had. I never had spinach as a child that wasn't in a can. As an adult that was raised in poor circumstances, I can remember things some may not be taking into account.

 

[Galatea]

I think you are over simplifying the situation. Poor people are often poor in multiple areas. Poor in education, time and geography. Poor in education; people generally know how to cook what they have been raised on. Poor people focus on buying cheap food and making it stretch. Outside of the ethnic populations that use them- most poor people don't know how inexpensive and healthy lots of legumes (beans, lentils, nuts, etc) are. They aren't going to randomly come across such info because it isn't popular culture food. It isn't like we really teach nutrition or model it in school programs How do you get that info to them if they aren't looking for it? They may be poor in time, don't have the time to cook some of these dishes. Some people eat so much convenience/fast food because they have very little time between commitments. Poor in geography; they may not even be able to locally source certain items. Have you ever heard of a food desert? When I was a kid we went to the store closest to us often because that was the least costly in terms of transportation and time. So you were stuck with whatever they had. I never had spinach as a child that wasn't in a can. As an adult that was raised in poor circumstances, I can remember things some may not be taking into account.

I agree with you to a degree, except the education part. I would wager most overweight people know more about which foods are high in calories than thin people (due to dieting). Also, I was raised poor, and we knew the value of black eyed peas, red beans, kidney beans, and lima beans. I don't think a week went by they we did not eat some form of legumes at least once a week.

I do agree with you about time and geography. Especially in the inner cities where people do not have cars and buy their food from neighborhood bodegas. Fresh food may simply not be available. This was not in my case as we lived in the country and had fresh fruits and vegetables.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think you are over simplifying the situation. Poor people are often poor in multiple areas. Poor in education, time and geography. Poor in education; people generally know how to cook what they have been raised on. Poor people focus on buying cheap food and making it stretch. Outside of the ethnic populations that use them- most poor people don't know how inexpensive and healthy lots of legumes (beans, lentils, nuts, etc) are. They aren't going to randomly come across such info because it isn't popular culture food. It isn't like we really teach nutrition or model it in school programs How do you get that info to them if they aren't looking for it? They may be poor in time, don't have the time to cook some of these dishes. Some people eat so much convenience/fast food because they have very little time between commitments. Poor in geography; they may not even be able to locally source certain items. Have you ever heard of a food desert? When I was a kid we went to the store closest to us often because that was the least costly in terms of transportation and time. So you were stuck with whatever they had. I never had spinach as a child that wasn't in a can. As an adult that was raised in poor circumstances, I can remember things some may not be taking into account.

I don't think the problem complex at all. SNAP could limit allowable foodstuffs to healthier choices. That would put the poor and the food retailers on notice.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

I agree with you to a degree, except the education part. I would wager most overweight people know more about which foods are high in calories than thin people (due to dieting). Also, I was raised poor, and we knew the value of black eyed peas, red beans, kidney beans, and lima beans. I don't think a week went by they we did not eat some form of legumes at least once a week.

I do agree with you about time and geography. Especially in the inner cities where people do not have cars and buy their food from neighborhood bodegas. Fresh food may simply not be available. This was not in my case as we lived in the country and had fresh fruits and vegetables.

The problem is, knowing the caloric value isn't the same as knowing the nutritional value. If we want people to be healthy, they need to understand the nuance of that. Eating less bad food is what poor overweight people do. They do the cheap fad fast diets that screw up their metabolisms for marginal to no gain.

Your second point validated mine. You were raised with beans and black eyed peas. People raised without these foods generally don't know their value or how to prepare them. Most of my friends have never eaten a bean outside of a Mexican restaurant or a bowl of chili. I was raised on beans & rice as a staple. If you ask plenty of hardy American folk what a lentil is- they will stare at you blankly.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

I don't think the problem complex at all. SNAP could limit allowable foodstuffs to healthier choices. That would put the poor and the food retailers on notice.

I thought you wanted to help poor people get healthy, why the need to "put them on notice"?

As to the complexity, would you deny foodstuffs based on category or content? No soda, but what about fruit juice? No chips, but what about crackers like Ritz or Wheat Thins? Lots of unhealthy food is in camo these days.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I thought you wanted to help poor people get healthy, why the need to "put them on notice"?

As to the complexity, would you deny foodstuffs based on category or content? No soda, but what about fruit juice? No chips, but what about crackers like Ritz or Wheat Thins? Lots of unhealthy food is in camo these days.

I would eliminate the worst foods and see what happens over time. If the poor want to eat junk food let them pay for it.

SNAP means supplemental nutritional assistance and shouldn't be used for foods with little actual nutrition.

Perhaps if the people who manage these programs weren't obese and sickly themselves we could make some progress.

 

[Galatea]

I thought you wanted to help poor people get healthy, why the need to "put them on notice"?

As to the complexity, would you deny foodstuffs based on category or content? No soda, but what about fruit juice? No chips, but what about crackers like Ritz or Wheat Thins? Lots of unhealthy food is in camo these days.

Do you have WIC? Or is that something only in our state? It's a great program. It stands for Women Infants and Children. The income threshhold is surprisingly high. It is for pregnant women and children up until age 5. Women can buy milk, eggs, meat, vegetables, fruit, dairy products, and some healthy foods like peanut butter. They also buy baby food, formula and baby treats.

Anyway, it is very restricted as to what is allowed under WIC. There are lists at the stores and it is not uncommon to see cashiers consult a WIC list to see if some item is on it.

Food Stamps or SNAP can be organized like this, no problem.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

I would eliminate the worst foods and see what happens over time. If the poor want to eat junk food let them pay for it.

SNAP means supplemental nutritional assistance and shouldn't be used for foods with little actual nutrition.

Perhaps if the people who manage these programs weren't obese and sickly themselves we could make some progress.

"Junk food" is a political hot button. The worst foods are the heavily processed items produced by corporate giants that lobby our government to be able to poison us everyday. If they really removed the worst foods due to lack of nutrition, that would signal a problem to Americans NOT on assistance because it would involve foods they don't think of as junk. I don't think Nestle, ConAgra, Kraft or General Mills would allow the government they paid for to take money out of their tills

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Do you have WIC? Or is that something only in our state? It's a great program. It stands for Women Infants and Children. The income threshhold is surprisingly high. It is for pregnant women and children up until age 5. Women can buy milk, eggs, meat, vegetables, fruit, dairy products, and some healthy foods like peanut butter. They also buy baby food, formula and baby treats.

Anyway, it is very restricted as to what is allowed under WIC. There are lists at the stores and it is not uncommon to see cashiers consult a WIC list to see if some item is on it.

Food Stamps or SNAP can be organized like this, no problem.

I think WIC is based on Federal grants so all the states have it. A SNAP system modelled on WIC could work, but I imagine it isn't currently organized that way because the largest food manufacturers didn't want to miss out on all that money.

 

[Galatea]

I think WIC is based on Federal grants so all the states have it. A SNAP system modelled on WIC could work, but I imagine it isn't currently organized that way because the largest food manufacturers didn't want to miss out on all that money.

Yes, I suspect you are right. The longer I live, the longer I realize how true the Bible is. The love of money really IS the root of all evil.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think WIC is based on Federal grants so all the states have it. A SNAP system modelled on WIC could work, but I imagine it isn't currently organized that way because the largest food manufacturers didn't want to miss out on all that money.

That's why education and/or taking personal responsibility are so important.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes, I suspect you are right. The longer I live, the longer I realize how true the Bible is. The love of money really IS the root of all evil.

And, we have a nationwide game of "Simon Says" going on here.

 

[Desk trauma]

Whose idea of a healthy diet will hold sway in the revised SNAP guidelines? High fat low carb? Low fat hig carb? Vegan? Nutritarian? How would it be settled as all of those have some research on their side?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Whose idea of a healthy diet will hold sway in the revised SNAP guidelines? High fat low carb? Low fat hig carb? Vegan? Nutritarian? How would it be settled as all of those have some research on their side?

SNAP doesn't prescribe a diet, but should be more selective in foods allowed under the program. As PreviouslySeeking intimated (and I inferred) the food retailers push for a 'balanced' shopping cart, meaning a good mix of high profit products should be allowed under SNAP regardless of their nutritional value.

I wonder what the stores would do if SNAP shoppers suddenly started buying only nutritional foods voluntarily. Would their heads explode, or would they call their congressperson and file a grievance.

I'm sure they're delighted when they see SNAP recipients waddle into their stores and fill up their carts with high-margin junk foods.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

dp

 

[Desk trauma]

SNAP doesn't prescribe a diet, but should be more selective in foods allowed under the program.

Again, based on whose ideas of a healthy diet?