Sacraments, Grace, and Salvation

[Joykins]

My own viewpoint is that sacraments are some reliable conduits of God's grace but are not required for salvation. I believe that God pours out on his grace on any of us who ask for it, just by the asking, but that the "sacraments" are there as concrete reminders and conduits as well.

 

[Philip]

Philip and PaladinValer, I have a followup question for both of you--if the Holy Mysteries are not confined to the sacraments, do your churches define what any other of the Mysteries are or might be, or is it all a ... mystery?

As is often the case with Orthodoxy, there is no 'Official List of Mysteries'. One of the reasons we prefer the term 'Mystery' over 'Sacrement' is that we must remind ourselves that we do not understand how God works through the Mysteries. We know that God does work through the Seven Mysteries, but we do not limit Him to those seven.

Aside from the universally recognized seven listed above, opinions differ. Many would include the writing and veneration of icons. Some would include the monastic oath. A few would include the annointing of a Christian monarch. Those are some examples that quickly come to mind.

My own viewpoint is that sacraments are some reliable conduits of God's grace but are not required for salvation.

In general, we say that the are required when possible. God will have mercy on whom He has mercy and is not limited by the Mysteries He has provided for us. But to neglect the Mysteries, to not make use of the tools God has provided for us, is folly.

 

[PaladinValer]

Sacramentals are also Holy Mysteries of faith. That would include venerations of various sorts to even just reading the Bible.

 

[ScottBot]

Wouldn't belief in sacraments providing the way for salvation imply a "works" based righteousness?

Not if Christ orders them. When Christ tells you to do something, its usually a pretty good idea to do it.

 

[ScottBot]

What Catholics call Last Rites, we call Holy Unction. We do not limit Unction to the dying. Anyone who is sick, physically, mentally, or spiritually, may request Unction.

What Catholics call Confirmation we call Chrismation. We administer Chrismation immediately (when possible) after Baptism.

While we accept all seven of these as Holy Mysteries, we do not necessarily limit the Mysteries to this list.

We don't call it Last Rites anymore, it is simply Annointing of the Sick and is offered frequently. Its not reserved for the "deathbed" anymore.

 

[ScottBot]

As is often the case with Orthodoxy, there is no 'Official List of Mysteries'. One of the reasons we prefer the term 'Mystery' over 'Sacrement' is that we must remind ourselves that we do not understand how God works through the Mysteries. We know that God does work through the Seven Mysteries, but we do not limit Him to those seven.

Aside from the universally recognized seven listed above, opinions differ. Many would include the writing and veneration of icons. Some would include the monastic oath. A few would include the annointing of a Christian monarch. Those are some examples that quickly come to mind.



In general, we say that the are required when possible. God will have mercy on whom He has mercy and is not limited by the Mysteries He has provided for us. But to neglect the Mysteries, to not make use of the tools God has provided for us, is folly.

The only difference between a mystery and a sacrament is mystery is based on the Greek, whereas Sacrament is based on the Latin. they have essentially the same meanings and identical applications.

 

[Joykins]

Sacramentals are also Holy Mysteries of faith. That would include venerations of various sorts to even just reading the Bible.

Would prayer be a sacramental?

 

[Philip]

Would prayer be a sacramental?

From the Rainbow Series:

The practice of counting the sacraments was adopted in the Orthodox Church from the Roman Catholics. It is not an ancient practice of the Church and, in many ways, it tends to be misleading since it appears that there are just seven specific rites which are "sacraments" and that all other aspects of the life of the Church are essentially different from these particular actions. The more ancient and traditional practice of the Orthodox Church is to consider everything which is in and of the Church as sacramental or mystical.[emphasis mine]

The Church may be defined as the new life in Christ. It is man's life lived by the Holy Spirit in union with God. All aspects of the new life of the Church participate in the mystery of salvation. In Christ and the Holy Spirit everything which is sinful and dead becomes holy and alive by the power of God the Father. And so in Christ and the Holy Spirit everything in the Church becomes a sacrament, an element of the mystery of the Kingdom of God as it is already being experienced in the life of this world.

 

[Philip]

More from the Rainbow Series:

The Church as the gift of life eternal is by its very nature, in its fullness and entirety, a mystical and sacramental reality. It is the life of the Kingdom of God given already to those who believe. And thus, within the Church, everything we do -- our prayers, blessings, good works, thoughts, actions -- everything participates in the life which has no end. In this sense everything which is in the Church and of the Church is a sacrament of the Kingdom of God.

 

[KEPLER]

Lutherans maintain only two sacraments, but a third means of Grace.

Baptism and the Lord's Supper are sacraments, but we maintain that the preached Word is also a means of Grace. Therefore, when a sinner confesses, and the pastor declares forgiveness, the sinner has truly received the Grace of God, via the preached Word. It's kind of a half-sacrament (DON"T QUOTE ME ON THAT!)

But in the poll, the closest one (I think) to the Lutheran position is number 4, except that the wording is a little weird...? Right now it says:

Sacraments are the only reliable conduits of God's grace but once may to be saved without them.

I think that should have been: “but one may be saved without them,” yes??

I prefer Melethiel’s version:

The Sacraments are the only reliable conduits of God's grace, but He is not bound by them.

I wouldn’t like to say that “one may be saved without them,” because then that even excludes the preached word, which is then getting a little dicey. The only exception I can think of to the whole thing is an un-baptized infant, in which case God may act in his naked majesty and save the child. But I wouldn't risk it...

 

[Melethiel]

To add to Eric's post, Confession/Absolution and sometimes Confirmation are also viewed as "semi-sacraments", though I don't like that wording, and really prefer "Mystery" myself.

 

[KEPLER]

To add to Eric's post, Confession/Absolution and sometimes Confirmation are also viewed as "semi-sacraments", though I don't like that wording, and really prefer "Mystery" myself.

Yes, I should have worded that better...In my post, when I described that sinner/pastor scenario, I was describing confession & absolution.

Thanks Melethiel!

 

[Joykins]

But in the poll, the closest one (I think) to the Lutheran position is number 4, except that the wording is a little weird...? Right now it says:

Sacraments are the only reliable conduits of God's grace but once may to be saved without them.

I think that should have been: “but one may be saved without them,” yes??

Yes. I was in the process of editing down lines that were too long for the poll form. Please forgive my typos.

 

[KEPLER]

Yes. I was in the process of editing down lines that were too long for the poll form. Please forgive my typos.

{Makes the sign of the Cross...}

OK, you're forgiven!

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Sacraments are the only reliable condiuts of God's grace and may be necessary for salvation.

I do not believe that Sacraments are the only way of receiving Grace by any means. The way I see it is this:when Grace is at work outside of the Sacraments, we can know it is there by it's fruits only. That is to say, we know that God's Grace is at work, but we do not know exactly how or when it was received. With the Sacraments, though we are able to resist the Grace they offer, we know exactly how and when that Grace is given.