Purgatory and why we Orthodox dont affirm it

dóxatotheó

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Purgatory is, in the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the state of those who die in God's friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness and joy of heaven and the eternal and blessed presence of God. Those in this state of purification can be assisted by prayers for the dead and the liturgies of the Church. Roman Catholicism’s way of preserving their view of Purgatory with the early teaching that man cannot repent or attain merits after death, is to say man can have someone else’s merits added to his own. Orthodoxy does understand a purifying to take place in the next
life, which St. Paul also speaks about (and RC uses to support Purgatory as
well), that all our works will be put through the fire, the stone, gold,
etc. will remain while all that is of hay, straw, etc. will be burned away.
Even if it is all burned away, however, if the foundation which has been
laid is Jesus Christ, that person will be saved as through the fire.
Since this is scripture, and the Fathers also speak about the purifying of
the soul in this life and the next, this is something we cannot just toss
aside. However, there are some significant differences between what I have
understood of the RC's concept and Orthodoxy's on this purifying in the next
life.One of the biggest differences is when this purifying takes place, and the
purpose and reason of the purifying. RC teaches that one must be purified
*before* approaching God. Orthodoxy tends to teach that one is purified
*upon* approaching God.Hence, the meritorious acts on Earth (prayers, masses, indulgences) in effect please God so that He takes someone else’s merits which are in effect His own (as the Body of Christ is one with Him, the merits of the saints are identical to Christ’s) and arbitrarily ascribes them to the soul in Purgatory. God, being God, may surely do things “just because” but it casts a strange picture of God. A God who can simply shift merits to different accounts like a bookkeeper, but do this because He has to satiate His own wrath due to man’s injustice, is a twisted view of God that we never see the Scriptures or early Church take.
https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2018/06/27/purgatory-merits-and-orthodoxy/\
Purgatory - OrthodoxWiki
 

Landon Caeli

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Purgatory is, in the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the state of those who die in God's friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness and joy of heaven and the eternal and blessed presence of God. Those in this state of purification can be assisted by prayers for the dead and the liturgies of the Church. Roman Catholicism’s way of preserving their view of Purgatory with the early teaching that man cannot repent or attain merits after death, is to say man can have someone else’s merits added to his own. Orthodoxy does understand a purifying to take place in the next
life, which St. Paul also speaks about (and RC uses to support Purgatory as
well), that all our works will be put through the fire, the stone, gold,
etc. will remain while all that is of hay, straw, etc. will be burned away.
Even if it is all burned away, however, if the foundation which has been
laid is Jesus Christ, that person will be saved as through the fire.
Since this is scripture, and the Fathers also speak about the purifying of
the soul in this life and the next, this is something we cannot just toss
aside. However, there are some significant differences between what I have
understood of the RC's concept and Orthodoxy's on this purifying in the next
life.One of the biggest differences is when this purifying takes place, and the
purpose and reason of the purifying. RC teaches that one must be purified
*before* approaching God. Orthodoxy tends to teach that one is purified
*upon* approaching God.Hence, the meritorious acts on Earth (prayers, masses, indulgences) in effect please God so that He takes someone else’s merits which are in effect His own (as the Body of Christ is one with Him, the merits of the saints are identical to Christ’s) and arbitrarily ascribes them to the soul in Purgatory. God, being God, may surely do things “just because” but it casts a strange picture of God. A God who can simply shift merits to different accounts like a bookkeeper, but do this because He has to satiate His own wrath due to man’s injustice, is a twisted view of God that we never see the Scriptures or early Church take.
https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2018/06/27/purgatory-merits-and-orthodoxy/\
Purgatory - OrthodoxWiki

From my understanding, as a Catholic, we can only hope that our prayers will assist those in Purgatory. But I'm not aware of a Catholic teaching that ensures our prayers will actually have an effect on another's destiny.

And this practice of praying for the dead comes from 2 Maccabees 12:45-46
 
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Malleeboy

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Does Isaiah 6 play into this discussion?

Isaiah 6
5 “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”
 
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dóxatotheó

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Does Isaiah 6 play into this discussion?

Isaiah 6
5 “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”
Whats the reason for it to be brought up
 
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ArmyMatt

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we reject purgatory because there is no third condition where certain souls who are saved still need to be punished or whatever for the sins they did on earth. plus we reject indulgences, and the notion that indulgences can reduce the time in such a state.
 
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dóxatotheó

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we reject purgatory because there is no third condition where certain souls who are saved still need to be punished or whatever for the sins they did on earth. plus we reject indulgences, and the notion that indulgences can reduce the time in such a state.
I might start a thread on indulgences aswell
 
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