New Rules for Gay Clergy -- Catholics only.

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Axion

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Things could be getting a bit more rigorous with regard to seminaries, according to the London Times:

Vatican will require new gay priests to prove their celibacy
From Martin Penner in Rome
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1816059,00.html

GAY candidates will be barred from the Roman Catholic priesthood unless they can demonstrate that they have been celibate for three years, according to leaked details of new Vatican rules for seminaries.
Would-be priests will also be excluded if they declare homosexuality publicly, take part in gay rallies, frequent gay associations or show an interest in homosexuality through the use of the internet, books and films.



Pope Benedict XVI is believed to have already approved the 16 pages of instructions, aimed at the heads of Catholic seminaries around the world.

Publication is expected early next month, Corriere della Sera reported. The stricter rules replace instructions dating back to 1961 and take into account recent medical and psychological research into homosexuality, which Catholic doctrine considers an “objectively disordered” condition. A group of psychologists at the Gregorian University in Rome took part in the drafting.

In a sign of the document’s importance and sensitivity, a Catholic psychologist has been charged with writing an explanatory commentary which will appear in the official Vatican daily newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, when it is released.

But the document is also the product of some intense thinking in the Vatican since the paedophile priests scandals in the United States in 2001, analysts said.

An investigation by the US bishops’ conference published in 2004 said that in 80 per cent of cases the priest’s actions could more accurately be defined as homosexual rather than paedophilia. The same report noted that there were many excellent priests who had homosexual tendencies but who lived chaste lives.
 

Maggie893

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Axion said:
GAY candidates will be barred from the Roman Catholic priesthood unless they can demonstrate that they have been celibate for three years, according to leaked details of new Vatican rules for seminaries.

Ok pardon my ignorance.....how do you prove that you are celibate?
 
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BillH

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New_Found_Faith said:
I thought all homosexuals were being banned from the priesthood, including celibate gays.

You probably thought that because everyone in the media just "knew" that this was what was in a unreleased Vatican document that no one had read and had reported it as such a few weeks back. Now that some sources close to the actual document being prepared are talking, it looks like it will be a little more nuanced.
 
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HisKid1973

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Are your priest"s above bishops? Bishops and deacon have a tough standard as a positon of leadership.
1Tim. 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus..And the also will have to give accout for their flock...
pax..kim
 
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King of the Nations

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marciadietrich said:
Bishops are above priests.

This seems an impossible thing to enforce ... to prove they are celibate (or do they mean no proof or evidence presented to contrary, thus clean medical record and no accusations?).

This is one of those "feminine" things (pardon the pun - not intended) where it isn't tangible, physical proof we're talking about. It's an "understanding". A "rapproachment", an "Ok, tell me about your life" (and we'll see what's visible between the lines) type thing.

Know what I mean?

Greg
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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Good news indeed. :) Blanket condemnations based upon unchosen attributes don't really appeal to me...this seems much better...I'd even say that this, to my mind, is probably the best possible result from the Vatican's considerations.

I wonder what declaring one's homosexuality publicly means? :scratch: I'm guessing it means telling it to crowd's of strangers as opposed to individuals you know.

I also hope that heterosexual priests must prove that they have been celibate for a period of time. Except of course for married converting Anglican ministers and married Eastern Catholic clergy.

Rob :wave:
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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kimber1 said:
why should non practicing celebate homosexuals be excluded? :scratch:

Exactly...they shouldn't. But there was widely believed media coverage that said that this is what the new Vatican document would do. I hope that this new coverage is more reliable than the previous coverage as to what the document will enforce.
 
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geocajun

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If its true, which I don't know for sure yet, but if it is, then it would exclude every homosexual who is obviously gay, chaste or not, as well as those who cannot control their sexual temptations.
This is sort of like 'spin' to present it the way its being presented, because a look at the raw substance of the supposed policy seems to me anyway, to be very exclusive regarding the what homosexuals could be considered to be clergy.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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geocajun said:
If its true, which I don't know for sure yet, but if it is, then it would exclude every homosexual who is obviously gay

How on earth would you go about deciding who that excludes? If you're talking about men who still go around openly discussing their sexual desire for other men, that they would obviously be prohibited. Is that what you meant? :scratch:
 
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geocajun

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Robbie_James_Francis said:
How on earth would you go about deciding who that excludes? If you're talking about men who still go around openly discussing their sexual desire for other men, that they would obviously be prohibited. Is that what you meant? :scratch:
it would obviously require a certain amount of prudence on the part of the folks determining if they are qualified to be clergy or not. This is no different than anything else though, such as someone who has excessive problems with anger for example.
This can be discovered and evaluated through the profiling process.
 
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Fantine

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Celibate is not synonymous with "virginal."

I would hope that those same rules would apply to heterosexual seminarians. Would you want a heterosexual seminarian looking at porn or dirty magazines? Would you want a heterosexual seminarian who had recently ended a sexual relationship, repented, and decided to become a priest? Of course not.

I think these rules are fair, because they acknowledge that self-control and sacrifice are possible for all men regardless of sexual orientation, particularly with the help of the Holy Spirit.
 
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