Mary's immaculate conception

[Major1]

Nothing to consider. The EOC does not believe in original sin (that is a Roman church concept as is the IC).

what does (CCC 508), and (CCC 493) actually mean then when compared to ......

Romans 3:23.....
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

 

[bbbbbbb]

what does (CCC 508), and (CCC 493) actually mean then when compared to ......

Romans 3:23.....
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

The EOC have a slightly different spin on sin. They do not believe that babies are born with a sinful nature, but once they reach a certain age they do sin, so that they will agree that all have sinned.

 

[concretecamper]

Okay, I pick Eastern Orthodox Christian history. I guess that leaves you out.

Im not part of the EO, so I am glad to be out.

 

[Major1]

The EOC have a slightly different spin on sin. They do not believe that babies are born with a sinful nature, but once they reach a certain age they do sin, so that they will agree that all have sinned.

Thanks!

But Isn't that just a little strange because it begs the question of who sets that age???

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thanks!

But Isn't that just a little strange because it begs the question of who sets that age???

Well, it is not unlike the popular concept regarding childhood death known as the "age of accountability". Much popular opinion, as I am sure you know, holds that God does not hold a child accountable for his sin if he (or she) dies before reaching an age where they can consciously repent the believe in Jesus Christ. Who is to say what that age is?

 

[FenderTL5]

Thanks!

But Isn't that just a little strange because it begs the question of who sets that age???

Not as strange as those who arbitrarily apply a standard.
The age is when there is sin. It's not a set age as determined by a calendar but when the person actually sins. It could be younger for some, older for others.

 

[Albion]

Thanks!

But Isn't that just a little strange because it begs the question of who sets that age???

It's all a guess. The age of seven is most commonly used and dates back to pre-Christian thinking, but if we were to survey the Christian churches of the world we'd find some using one gauge and others using a different one...almost every age from 6 or 7 to the early teens.

 

[Major1]

It's all a guess. The age of seven is most commonly used and dates back to pre-Christian thinking, but if we were to survey the Christian churches of the world we'd find some using one gauge and others using a different one...almost every age from 6 or 7 to the early teens.

"ALL" kind of fixes that.

 

[Major1]

"Fender" said.............
"Not as strange as those who arbitrarily apply a standard.
The age is when there is sin. It's not a set age as determined by a calendar but when the person actually sins. It could be younger for some, older for others."

However, if we believe the Bible, then we could fix that problem by understanding that we are born sinners.

The question is, where did that sinful nature come from? Were we born sinners, or did we simply choose to become sinners sometime after birth?

According to the Bible, we are born with a sinful nature. and we inherited it from Adam.

Romans 5:12 tells us that.........
“Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people”.

Every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions.

Romans 5:18..........
“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.

We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.

See.....I just fixed the problem.

 

[FenderTL5]

"Fender" said.............
"Not as strange as those who arbitrarily apply a standard.
The age is when there is sin. It's not a set age as determined by a calendar but when the person actually sins. It could be younger for some, older for others."

However, if we believe the Bible, then we could fix that problem by understanding that we are born sinners.

The question is, where did that sinful nature come from? Were we born sinners, or did we simply choose to become sinners sometime after birth?

According to the Bible, we are born with a sinful nature. and we inherited it from Adam.

Romans 5:12 tells us that.........
“Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people”.

Every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions.

Romans 5:18..........
“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.

We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.

See.....I just fixed the problem.

If we believe the Bible we see that death came to all men through Adam's sin.
Romans 5:12
“Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people”.
Romans 5:18
“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.
What it does not say is that we are born inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin, only the consequences, which is death.

 

[Albion]

Romans 5:18
“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.
What it does not say is that born inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin, only the consequences, which is death.

That verse doesn't make it clear. But others do. For example, “ Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalm 51:5).

 

[FenderTL5]

That verse doesn't make it clear. But others do. For example, “Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5).

My comments are in response to the non-Orthodox espousing what is Orthodox belief as seen in the following quotes:

The EOC have a slightly different spin on sin. They do not believe that babies are born with a sinful nature, but once they reach a certain age they do sin, so that they will agree that all have sinned.

Thanks!

But Isn't that just a little strange because it begs the question of who sets that age???

Orthodox belief is that a child becomes a sinner when they sin. period. full-stop.
It is not Orthodox to say we become sinners at some arbitrary age as was suggested.

 

[Albion]

My comments are in response to the non-Orthodox espousing what is Orthodox belief as seen in the following quotes:

I know. My comments about this were very narrowly focused, simply to keep the record straight that however one thinks about the matter there IS Scriptural evidence suggesting the reality of original sin and not just that all men inherit the consequences of Adam's sin, i.e. physical death.

 

[FenderTL5]

I know. My comments about this were very narrowly focused, simply to keep the record straight that however one thinks about the matter there IS Scriptural evidence suggesting the reality of original sin and not just that all men inherit the consequences of Adam's sin, i.e. physical death.

You are also aware that the western concept of inheriting Adam's guilt, called "Original Sin" is not Orthodox teaching. I'm not interested in debating it, especially since the topic is immaculate conception, which is not Orthodox either.

 

[Albion]

You are also aware that the western concept of inheriting Adam's guilt, called "Original Sin" is not Orthodox teaching.

Of course. As I said, my point was that there is indeed Scriptural evidence for Original Sin. That doesn't say that anyone in particular is right about the matter, just that it's not the case that Romans 5:12 is the final word on the subject.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

what does (CCC 508), and (CCC 493) actually mean then when compared to ......

Romans 3:23.....
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

CCC 493 and 508? What is that?

 

[Major1]

CCC 493 and 508? What is that?

My apologies. I assumed you were familiar with the catholic church.
"CCC" is an abbreviation for ......."Catechism of the Catholic Church".

 

[Major1]

If we believe the Bible we see that death came to all men through Adam's sin.
Romans 5:12
“Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people”.
Romans 5:18
“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.
What it does not say is that we are born inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin, only the consequences, which is death.

You are welcome to accept any thing anyone tells you.

The Philadelphia Confession of Faith, says..... "They (Adam and Eve - J.Q.) being the root, and, by God's appointment... the guilt of sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin..."

If the Bible teaches one thing and men teach another, then men are wrong and the Bible is correct. It is just that simple.

The Bible clearly tells us that all people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam as he was the FEDERAL HEAD of humanity. Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God and rebellion against God.

Genesis 3 describes Adam and Eve’s rebellion against God and His command. Because of Adam and Eve’s disobedience, sin has been an “inheritance” for all of their descendants.

Romans 5:12 tells us that, through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because all have sinned. This passed-on sin is known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful nature from Adam.

I will not argue such a Biblical point and you are of course free to believe as you choose.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

My apologies. I assumed you were familiar with the catholic church.
"CCC" is an abbreviation for ......."Catechism of the Catholic Church".

I am Orthodox Catholic, not a member of the church of Rome...

 

[Albion]

I am Orthodox Catholic, not a member of the church of Rome...

Not Major's fault, though. It's recognized by most people who've gotten themselves involved in inter-denominational discussions.

The term, that abbreviation, has been used many times on these forums, however, in discussions involving members of more denominations than just the Roman Catholic Church.