It's time for the US to lift the Cuban Embargo

[Key Peninsula Redneck]

Maybe Castro could get some help from France...? Their government doesn't really seem to mind dictators.

 

[ACougar]

Cuba hasn't yet achived communism, it's an ideal that can probably never be fully implemented. Cuba is a socialist country founded on communist ideals. The problem isn't it's economic system, the problem exists in the lack of freedom.

IMO the most important differnace between Cuba and the U.S. is that I can proclaim Bush to be a despicable scum bag who should be in jail in this country without being arrested while doing the same in Cuba about Castro would get me jailed.

We need to send out a strong message that communism will not be tolerated.

 

[Iosias]

Cuba hasn't yet achived communism, it's an ideal that can probably never be fully implemented...The problem isn't it's economic system, the problem exists in the lack of freedom.

Cuba is a communist country and the lack of freedom stems from its economic system.

 

[Bible Addict]

I doubt Russia has the money to help him.

They wouldn't want to either.

 

[elanor]

Cuba is a communist country and the lack of freedom stems from its economic system.

No, ACougar is correct. Cuba is a socialist country. Strictly speaking, communism is the final step in Marxist theory where the state dwindles and ceases to play a significant role because all property is held in common and economic goods are distributed equitably. Cuba still has private ownership and thus does not meet at least that criteria for true communism.

What we in the West brand as communism is actually socialism, which is a step on the road to communism. But we've called it communism for so long that the form of socialism we are familiar with has become identified with the word. Too bad, as it's really not accurate. Rather like accepting the pronunciation "nuculer" for the word "nuclear."

But don't get me started on the subject of the dumbing down of society...

 

[copernicus]

The Cuban embargo had little to do with their political system. Cuba posed a threat to the US when it was a client state of the Soviets. The Soviets once snuck missiles with nuclear warheads into Cuba in order to threaten us, and we got those WMDs out only by withdrawing our own from Turkey. (Kennedy timed the quid-pro-quo to obscure what it was.)

Now that Cuba is no longer sponsored by our enemies, it poses no threat whatsoever. Castro will lose power soon, and there is no one with the popularity to replace him. A free market system will take over there, just as it is taking over in other Communist countries. The only thing that prevents us from dropping this anachronism of a policy is the political clout of the Cuban immigrant community. And even they are divided on the issue.

 

[BobbieDog]

The longevity, even in circumstances of some irrelevancy and redundancy, of sanctions imposed through US determination: should, and does make the international community shy away from supporting American suggested sanctions in other instances.

Give the US this initial bridgehead and leverage, and the US will use it to attempt to grind down societies which have earned its disfavor.

Perhaps this partly explains reluctance to support American pressed sanctions against Sudan and Iran.

Don't give the USA that first inch, because you know what they want is the full nine yards.

 

[jgarden]

We need to send out a strong message that communism will not be tolerated.

American's relationship with the Peoples Republic of China sends the message that "communism" is not only tolerated but recognized, as long as they provide lucrative trade possibilities. It makes little difference that China massacred its own students protesting the need for democratic reforms.

Castro is a Cuban national first and a communist a distant second. He and his ragtag followers could not have been successful if they had not received popular support against an American supported dictator and his organized crime friends.

If we don't want communism in the world, then we need to address the problems that spawn it. Communism, does not appear in a "vacuum," its a response to an existing problem.

 

[elanor]

We need to send out a strong message that communism will not be tolerated.

Why? I can understand sending a strong message that human rights abuses won't be tolerated (not that we do a particularly good job of that). But as for sending a message that we won't tolerate communism (socialism, actually), that I don't understand. If people want that governmental system, then what business is it of ours to say they shouldn't have it?

 

[Iosias]

No, ACougar is correct. Cuba is a socialist country. Strictly speaking, communism is the final step in Marxist theory where the state dwindles and ceases to play a significant role because all property is held in common and economic goods are distributed equitably. Cuba still has private ownership and thus does not meet at least that criteria for true communism.

I understand the theory...but cuba is what communism in practice is whether or not on paper it is not identicle.

If people want that governmental system, then what business is it of ours to say they shouldn't have it?

Firstly the people did not choose communism...it was forced upon them. Secondly, the existence of a communist nation threatens world peace and so if it were to be destroyed then peace can prevail.

American's relationship with the Peoples Republic of China sends the message that "communism" is not only tolerated but recognized, as long as they provide lucrative trade possibilities. It makes little difference that China massacred its own students protesting the need for democratic reforms.

Agreed and that is why the US needs to cease its cosy relations with China.

 

[elanor]

...the existence of a communist nation threatens world peace and so if it were to be destroyed then peace can prevail.

What is it about communism that you think makes it a threat in and of itself to world peace?

 

[BobbieDog]

Islam will be tolerated. Christianity will be tolerated. Communism will be tolerated. The American way will be tolerated. Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism will be tolerated. Most all of everything that does not threaten all or anything else any more than most other things do, will be tolerated. Everything, in fact, that existed in the human world, before this latest pandemic of intolerance took hold, will be tolerated.

What will not be tolerated will be intolerance. Those who have become so addicted to their own conviction, that they will tolerate no other conviction or understanding, will not be tolerated.

Those who must destroy communism, or Islam, or Christianity of Judaism, or any of the other things which fill this human world, will not be tolerated.

People who cannot exist without intolerance, need to sort themselves out.

To make toleration work we need to be committed to it. We need to resource it. We need to learn and teach the life skills and qualities required for it.

And we must be alert to the terrorists: those of intolerance who like nothing better than seeking out and destroying tolerance.

 

[jgarden]

I understand the theory...but cuba is what communism in practice is whether or not on paper it is not identicle.

Firstly the people did not choose communism...it was forced upon them. Secondly, the existence of a communist nation threatens world peace and so if it were to be destroyed then peace can prevail.

Although Cuban people may not have chosen a "communism" system outright,
anything was preferable to the American sponsored Batiste dictatorship and his Mafia connections. Most revolutions are motivated by nationalism, which is the antithesis of true communism. Paradoxically, it is nationalism in its many forms, that has been the biggest threat to world peace throughout recorded history. Communist nations are a 20th C phenomena and have only been on the world stage for about 8 decades.

 

[Paladin Dave]

I know that most people in Cuba did not choose communism, let alone Castro, especially if they flee the island swimming, but I think if they get desperate enough, they'll have themselves a revolution. Or, who knows? Castro has been in power for so long the guy could probably keel over in a few more years. Sorry, if I sound apathetic or complacent, I know things are real bad over there, but I doubt lifting the embargo will help that much. Castro is gonna keep everything for himself anyways(or those close to him and in his party), and the people who are suffering now, will for the most part still be suffering after the embargo is lifted. It would do us or anyone else little good to lift it, aside from the people who we want out of Cuba. I can't remember who said it, but I agree with them, the only way to end the suffering of the Cuban people is by military action, be it by us(hopefully not, we're spread thin enough), or by Cuban revolutionists.

 

[Swart]

Yes we should have normalized relations with Cuba right here right now. It makes absolutly no sense why we don't.


We have relations with Vietnam and China, communist.

That's because there is a buck to be made there.

 

[Swart]

Every year we send a "rent" check to Fidel for our lease at Gitmo, and every year he doesn't cash it (wish he'd endorse it over to me...)

Were there no sanctions, would Fidel allow interaction with the Imperialist Yankee Dogs?

I wonder if the US will do a Panama when the lease runs out.

Castro honestly thought the US would support him after his victory. He didn't trust or like the Soviet Union but reluctantly embraced them after being snubbed by the US.

Cuban history is very interesting. Even more interesting is to compare and contrast Cuba with the Philippines during the same period.

 

[Swart]

Ordering a total exclusion zone does not give anyone the right to shoot down an aircraft or sink a cruise ship. Instead it gives the order to force them to turn back. This can be easily done. Another mehtod of enforcing the total exclusion zone is by preventing the use of American sovereign area by vessels that enter Cuba. Canadian airliners will have to fly around the United States if they want to visit Cuba now or ships sailing to Havana will not allowed to enter American ports. Now if a vessel enters the exclusion zone, the Coast Guard should send commandoes to gain control of the ship in a peaceful manner and take it to the nearest American port so those on the vessel can be repatrionated.

This would be considered an act of war by any sovereign country. What if China declared an exclusion zone around Taiwan and began boarding US ships bound for Taiwan? How would you react if England sent a vessel to Cuba that was armed and prepared to repel boarders by lethal force. Would you still send in the coast guard?

Any military intervention must be accompanied by the threat of force in case someone calls your bluff. To me, you sound full of bravado, but would you really be interested in carrying out an act of war against a US ally?

 

[Swart]

I am not afraid of Cuba but in the constant pursuit of freedom for all, all dictators must go.

Perhaps then, the US should cease its practice of propping up and supporting dictators and military juntas.

 

[Swart]

I would not want Cuba to the 51st state. And more importantly, I think a free nations should alienate those who are not free. It worked with the Eastern Bloc.

Then the US should immediately cut all economic and diplomatic ties with China. Correct?

 

[Swart]

We need to send out a strong message that communism will not be tolerated.

Perhaps the message the US should be sending is that Fascism will not be tolerated. Instead they have been sponsoring and supporting it since the end of WWII.