Is Catholicism the Same as Christianity?

[matthewmarklukejohn]

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[Bob Carabbio]

Just want to know what others think about it.

"Catholicism" is a "DENOMINATION" - a "Religious business system" with its HQ in Rome and which which maintains facilities, educates clergy, and conducts meetings/rituals daily in their facilities all around the world. In that they're pretty much the same as ANY "Denominational/Religious business system" that does the same things in various ways. Catholicism (Roman or otherwise) IS NOT "the ONE church that Jesus started" (regardless of its professions to the contrary) It's "just another Denomination" in the Visible Church on earth in 2015.

And as it is in almost every Christian/Bible related religious system -

SOME of the folks who are involved in the Catholic Religious Paradigm, are ALSO folks who have been convicted of their SIN, and Repented of it. They have surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus, and have placed their FAITH (by conviction by the Holy Spirit) in Jesus' sacrifice for sin, received the Infilling of the Holy SPirit, and thereby in addition to being "Catholics" are ALSO "Born again Christians", cleansed by the Blood of Christ, and perfect before God - and in SOME Cases are also Baptised in the Holy Spirit, and move in the Gifts of the Spirit.

And - there are SOME folks who are involved in the Catholic Religious Paradigm, who are nothing more than "Catholic religious practicioners" who perform the Catholic liturgies, and THINK that there's nothing more to it than going through the motions, and performing the "Religious activities". But they're NOT "Christians" - just "religious paradigmatics".

The same thing can be said about the Baptists, Nazarenes, Assembly of God, Presbyterians - whomever.

EVERY gathering of Christians is, and will continue to be a MIXTURE of "Wheat" and "Tares" that look just like "Wheat" - but aren't.

Simple as that.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I do not think that statement lines up with the Gospels or the Epistles of the New Testament, nor does it line up with the early history of the Christian Church.[/quote).

Now read the Bible again, and find out what the CHURCH / Body of CHrist / Bride of Christ REALLY IS.

OF course there are "Institutions" that gather under a "Name" that generally gives some clue about what they think is their "Precious defining truth".

But there's also the catholic (Small "c") church that is composed of ALL Believers world wide, that meet the qualifications I listed. And It's not "Denominational".

I am not sure, but you might be offering a bit of a false dichotomy

Why wouldn't you be "Sure"???

Jesus said the visible Church would be populated by "Wheat" and "Tares", and so it is. There ARE "Catholics" who are Christians, and there are "Catholics" who are nothing more than "Catholics", and who are part of the VISIBLE congregation, but who NEVER trusted in Jesus for their salvation.

You probably know some of 'em yourself.

And the same goes for any other denomination. Some Baptists are Christians, and some Baptists are nothing but "Baptists".

 

[Simon_Templar]

Bob,

The Church is a body. I don't know about you but I've never seen a body that wasn't "organized".
The Church is also a kingdom, and as such it has institutions.

Catholicism is not merely a denomination. In a general sense the word denomination can just mean a named group, and I suppose in that sense Catholicism could be considered a denomination.

More specifically, Jesus Christ founded a Church 2000 years ago. Then about 500 years ago, a bunch of people broke unity with that Church, went off and founded their own groups which have become known as denominations. The Catholic Church is not merely one of those groups. It is the original.

You are absolutely right that there are both wheat and tares in the Kingdom of Heaven, good fish and bad fish (as the next parable says). That is true of the Catholic Church certainly. There are both faithful and unfaithful members.

You attempt to make a distinction between Catholic and catholic. This is partly because you don't accept the Catholic Church as the original Church (which it is), but it is also because you are trying to reconcile the fact that there are faithful believers in every denomination, as well as in the Church.

There is no distinction. There are not many Churches, there is only one Church and all believers receive what they have through that one Church. Even those believers who deny the visible unity of the Catholic Church, and are in schism, still have what they have because of and through the Catholic Church.

Jesus Christ established the Church as his Kingdom. The bible tells us that the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth" and the "fullness of him who fills all in all" (ie Jesus Christ). The Church is what is, not because of men, but because Jesus made it so and because the Holy Spirit upholds it.

 

[agua]

Just want to know what others think about it.

No ( because of the number of incorrect doctrines and practices, and poor management of discraceful behaviour in leadership positions ); with the caveat that there will be people inside Catholicism that are Christian, as inside every denomination.

Is this the ban me now thread

 

[IamNazarene]

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[tz620q]

No ( because of the number of incorrect doctrines and practices, and poor management of discraceful behaviour in leadership positions ); with the caveat that there will be people inside Catholicism that are Christian, as inside every denomination.

Is this the ban me now thread

It's starting to look like it. I do find it interesting that the same people who adamantly say that the church building doesn't count, it's the people inside, are the ones that think that criticizing Catholicism isn't criticizing the people within Catholicism.

 

[Rhamiel]

Is Protestantism the same as Christianity?

that is perhaps the more pressing question

 

[agua]

It's starting to look like it. I do find it interesting that the same people who adamantly say that the church building doesn't count, it's the people inside, are the ones that think that criticizing Catholicism isn't criticizing the people within Catholicism.

Isn't it the same principle of hate the sin love the sinner ? I suggest there may be true Christians inside every denomination, but this doesn't imply the denomination has good doctrine.

 

[agua]

Depends on whether or not the Catholic has accepted Jesus and is not just simply going to church. Same thing in most congregations.

I agree with the caveat that knowing Jesus seems to be important, if this is what you imply by accepting.

 

[tz620q]

Isn't it the same principle of hate the sin love the sinner ? I suggest there may be true Christians inside every denomination, but this doesn't imply the denomination has good doctrine.

Sins against you or sins against God? Or are you the arbiter?

By the way, I agree with your statement about true Christians inside every denomination; but when was the last time a Catholic came to your "safe haven" group and started denouncing your beliefs and continued to do so in more than one post without being reported.

 

[agua]

Sins against you or sins against God? Or are you the arbiter?

All sins are against Yahweh. Do you agree with the concept of hate the sin love the sinner ?

By the way, I agree with your statement about true Christians inside every denomination; but when was the last time a Catholic came to your "safe haven" group and started denouncing your beliefs and continued to do so in more than one post without being reported.

Ah ok. Are you saying that non Catholics should stay out of Catholic forums ( or at least refrain from denouncing ) on this website. If this is a forum rule I apologise and will move on. I accept this website is privately owned and has rules that are independant of Christian mandates.

I'd like to know what your assessment of the Westborough Baptist Church is, and if you believe it teaches Christianity ?

 

[Simon_Templar]

All sins are against Yahweh. Do you agree with the concept of hate the sin love the sinner ?



Ah ok. Are you saying that non Catholics should stay out of Catholic forums ( or at least refrain from denouncing ) on this website. If this is a forum rule I apologise and will move on. I accept this website is privately owned and has rules that are independant of Christian mandates.

I'd like to know what your assessment of the Westborough Baptist Church is, and if you believe it teaches Christianity ?

Non Catholics are welcome in the forum, and they are welcome to discuss Catholic doctrine and practice and they are welcome to say they disagree, and to discuss their disagreement.

What get's tiresome, and is against the forum rules, is when people come in and try to tell you what you believe, and condemn you, or condemn your church etc.

I was born and raised as a protestant, spent 37 years as a protestant before I became Catholic. I studied Catholicism intensely before I became Catholic. I eventually converted because I was convinced from the bible that Catholicism was doctrinally correct.

When I was a protestant I was very well studied in protestant theology and doctrine. When I was a protestant I thought I knew what Catholics believed, and I thought I knew what the Catholic Church taught.

When I actually got passed my prejudices (the same ones almost all protestants have and are repeatedly taught regarding Catholicism) and I actually studied the history of the Church, and actually studied what Catholics believe and what the Church teaches, I discovered that most of what I believed about Catholics was very skewed, and mostly wrong.

The rank and file protestant almost without exception thinks that Catholicism is unbiblical and that it's all a man made construct that ignores scripture. This could not be further from the truth.

Catholicism absolutely does involve a MASSIVE amount of teaching and development from men because we have 2000 years of Holy Spirit guided teaching and development to learn from. Refusing to use or to learn that is not reliance on God, or reliance on scripture. It is reliance on SELF.

However, I came to Catholicism precisely because IT IS biblical and it makes more sense of the Bible than any doctrine or teaching that I had ever found before.

I don't mind if people don't agree with me, but it is tiring to deal with the arrogance of people who say that a given view is not biblical, simply because they don't agree with it.

Too many protestants can't tell the difference between what the bible says, and their own personal interpretation of what the bible says. In fact, that may very well be the defining characteristic of Protestantism as a whole.

 

[agua]

....
Too many protestants can't tell the difference between what the bible says, and their own personal interpretation of what the bible says. In fact, that may very well be the defining characteristic of Protestantism as a whole.

I'd like to know what your assessment of the Westborough Baptist Church is, and if you believe it teaches Christianity ?

 

[IamNazarene]

Jesus did not found Christianity 2000 years ago he founded it in Genesis.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Well, this thread is closed for staff review and clean up.

As a reminder, the flaming rule is this:

Flaming and Goading
● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
● Do not attack another member's character or actions in any way, address only the content of their post and not the member personally.
● NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, or smileys clearly meant to goad.
● Stating or implying that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian is not allowed.
● Only the person to whom the post is addressed may report the other. Anyone may report generalized flames or goads which are addressed to a group of members.
● Moderators have the right to report egregious violations of flaming or goading.
● Clear violations of the flaming rule will result in bans.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

I am hesitantly reopening this after doing a clean up.

Please be aware that teaching against Catholic beliefs is not allowed in this forum, nor is it okay for anyone to flame other groups - Catholic or Protestant. See the rule listed in the post above this.
​

 

[tz620q]

All sins are against Yahweh. Do you agree with the concept of hate the sin love the sinner ?

If someone steals my car, they have sinned against both God and myself. They can't drive merrily down the road and ask God for forgiveness and expect to not be held accountable. Would you agree that they should return my car to make up for their sin against me?

Now, why bring up sin in a thread about "Is Catholicism the Same as Christianity?" unless you believe that Catholics sin against God by just being Catholic? Is this what you are implying?

Ah ok. Are you saying that non Catholics should stay out of Catholic forums ( or at least refrain from denouncing ) on this website. If this is a forum rule I apologise and will move on. I accept this website is privately owned and has rules that are independant of Christian mandates.

I'd like to know what your assessment of the Westborough Baptist Church is, and if you believe it teaches Christianity ?

I saw an interview with King Abdullah II of Jordan where he was asked about ISIS. He stated that he would prefer if people didn't even associate them with Islam. That they were an extreme group that did not represent the actual beliefs of Islam well. I think Baptists feel the same way about Westboro. But I am not going to go to Topeka and protest them.

 

[agua]

ops just deleted after reading the above Mod review. My bad

 

[Simon_Templar]

I'd like to know what your assessment of the Westborough Baptist Church is, and if you believe it teaches Christianity ?

Westborough Baptist church is not true Christianity. They have missed the very core of the faith which is Love and if you don't have Love, then none of the rest matters. God is love, and if you don't have love, then you don't have God.

What most people don't know about Westborough baptist is that it's actually a money making scam.

The "church" consists largely of one family. A few members of the family are lawyers and they have crafted their whole routine in order to make money off of lawsuits.

The routine goes like this. They go to a funeral or other such event and are as blatantly offensive as they can possibly be within the bounds of the law, using their "church"/religious status to cover their free speech. Inevitably someone either tries to shut them up, or some one brings a lawsuit against them.

In the first case, if someone tries to restrict their free speech, they file a lawsuit under the first amendment.

In the later an more common case, when someone sues them, they bring counter suit for legal expenses and they have their own lawyer (one of the family) represent them. They inevitably win the free speech lawsuit because they are very careful to stay within the law. When they win, they get their legal expenses paid for, which goes to them because they are their own lawyers.

I don't know if they actually believe the stuff they spew or not, maybe they do and they figure its just a good way to exploit their beliefs. Maybe they don't and they are just con men.