If you think that Noah's flood was global and wish to wager on it,

[Ceallaigh]

I agree. But that doesn't explain the existence of shellfish on mountains... Shellfish that were a part of creation after the sea and the land were divided.

Perhaps they existed before the earth was made void.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps they existed before the earth was made void.

The earth wasn't "made void."

It came into existence void.

Just a formless mass of seawater in the hollow of God's hand.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The earth wasn't "made void."

It came into existence void.

Just a formless mass of seawater in the hollow of God's hand.

It wasn't made, it came into existence? I think you probably mean it wasn't turned into a void, but started out that way. You probably know I'm pushing the "gap theory". It does solve a lot of problems so to speak. But then again, that's not really the topic.

 

[AV1611VET]

It wasn't made, it came into existence?

Yes, sir.

Are you familiar with the term: creatio ex nihilo?

I think you probably mean it wasn't turned into a void, but started out that way.

Negative.

You probably know I'm pushing the "gap theory".

Yes.

I caught that, when you said "made void."

I'm familiar with Scofield's notes on the issue from his study bible.

It does solve a lot of problems so to speak. But then again, that's not really the topic.

Scofield solves the problem of why the universe shows signs of damage quite well by advocating a "cosmic battle" between the good and bad angels.

I agree with him on this, as this explains such things as craters on the moon, and craters on the earth, and space debris.

But I do not advocate the Gap Theory.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Yes, sir.

Are you familiar with the term: creatio ex nihilo?

Yes it means created out of nothing as opposed to came into existence out of nothing. I'm reminded of an old joke: How many evolutionists does it take to change a light bulb? None, it just happens.

 

[brakelite]

Perhaps they existed before the earth was made void.

So now you are abandoning science for a "perhaps".

 

[Ceallaigh]

So now you are abandoning science for a "perhaps".

A lot of science is based on theory. What scientific flaw(s) do you find in the theory I presented?

 

[BeyondET]

Proceed with the bet. Then you will see.

Let proposition P1 = Noah's flood was global.
P2 = Noah's flood was not global but regional.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

P2 = 12

 

[tonychanyt]

P2 = 12

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

 

[brakelite]

A lot of science is based on theory. What scientific flaw(s) do you find in the theory I presented?

In the past, I gave consideration to the "gap theory", and I haven't altogether abandoned all aspects of it. However, regardless of whether for countless ages the planet earth itself existed prior to the 7 day creation 6000 odd years ago, (there being no hint that the planet itself was created at that time, only redesigned somewhat), death, which came as a result of sin, didn't exist prior to the fall of Adam and Eve in the garden. Nothing died prior to sin, which biblically puts to rest any concept of theistic or natural evolution. The gap remains maybe, who really knows, but there could be no life that lived and died during that period.

 

[Ceallaigh]

In the past, I gave consideration to the "gap theory", and I haven't altogether abandoned all aspects of it. However, regardless of whether for countless ages the planet earth itself existed prior to the 7 day creation 6000 odd years ago, (there being no hint that the planet itself was created at that time, only redesigned somewhat), death, which came as a result of sin, didn't exist prior to the fall of Adam and Eve in the garden. Nothing died prior to sin, which biblically puts to rest any concept of theistic or natural evolution. The gap remains maybe, who really knows, but there could be no life that lived and died during that period.

Sin existed through Satan before Adam.

 

[tonychanyt]

Sin existed through Satan before Adam.

verse?

 

[Ceallaigh]

verse?

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44

 

[tonychanyt]

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44

It does not say "Sin existed through Satan before Adam."

 

[Ceallaigh]

It does not say "Sin existed through Satan before Adam."

So Jesus saying Satan was a murderer and a liar from the beginning doesn't indicate sin? Or Satan only started being evil after God created Adam?

 

[tonychanyt]

So Jesus saying Satan was a murderer and a liar from the beginning doesn't indicate sin? Or Satan only started being evil after God created Adam?

Excellent questions. I am slow to generalize. I took the latter approach. See The changing role of satan [lowercase]

 

[Ceallaigh]

Excellent questions. I am slow to generalize. I took the latter approach. See The changing role of satan [lowercase]

It's pretty widely accepted that before Adam Satan aka the Adversary made war against God and the heavenly host and corrupted many angels who became demons aka fallen angels. So if that's the case, he caused many angels to fall before he caused man to fall.

 

[tonychanyt]

It's pretty widely accepted that before Adam Satan aka the Adversary made war against God

reference?

 

[Ceallaigh]

reference?

 

[BeyondET]

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

My 12 is more weight than your 10.