MJ Only Found this on a subreddit I frequent on

[Graydon Booth]

I'm not a Messianic Jew myself, but I see this argument all the time from either Jews or non-Christians, so how would you respond to this?

This one was on the apostles:

 

[HARK!]

False

(CLV) Ex 4:22
So you will say to Pharaoh: Thus says Yahweh, My son, My firstborn, is Israel.

(CLV) 2Sa 7:14
I Myself shall become for him like a father; and he shall become for Me like a son. When he sins out of depravity, then I will correct him with the club of men and with the contagions of the sons of humanity.

(CLV) 1Ch 28:6
Further, He said to me, Solomon your son, he shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen i him to be for Me like a son, and I Myself shall become for him like a father.

 

[HARK!]

Yahshua was not the only miracle birth recorded.

(CLV) Gn 18:13
Then Yahweh said to Abraham: Why was this that Sarah laughed, saying: Shall I indeed truly bear a child, when I am old?

(CLV) Gn 18:14
Is anything too difficult for Yahweh? At the appointed time I shall return to you, and according to the season of life, Sarah will ›have a son.

(CLV) 2Ki 4:16
Elisha said, At this appointed time according to the season of life, you will be embracing a son. But she replied, Certainly not, my lord, O man of the One, Elohim! You must not lie to your maidservant.

(CLV) 2Ki 4:17
Yet the woman became pregnant and bore a son at this appointed time according to the season of life, just was Elisha had spoken to her.

 

[HARK!]

The Jews? What is a Jew? The letter J didn't even exist until a few hundred years ago.

Does he mean Yahudim (Yah's people)? If so that would include the Northern tribes (Israel), who were in exile.

 

[HARK!]

Yahshua came to bring division; but the division already existed, between those who understood and believed Yah's word, and those who didn't. The Pharisees were weak in understanding and obedience.

All who are left will find unity when Yahshua returns.

It's interesting that some who would rebel against Yah's word (Yahshua was Yah's word in the flesh), will then turn around and say that those who attempt hold fast to our Creator's word are the ones causing the division.

 

[HARK!]

He needs to read Revelation. He should attempt understand to the message of Messiah, before he attempts to refute it.

(CLV) Pr 18:13
He who replies with speech ere he has heard, It is folly to him and mortification.

 

[HARK!]

Again, what is a Jew? Yahshua is the King of Israel.

I'm not aware that kings are barred from traveling and teaching.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

A lot of his arguments have yet to be fulfilled. When Jesus returns to bring His kingdom, his objections have fulfillment then. As far as the virgin birth goes, this person should know Isaiah 7:14

 

[HARK!]

Those who are in the land of Israel established their government in 1948. They began pursuing nuclear weapons in 1949. Since then, they have been in a state of almost perpetual war. That's not peace.


(CLV) Isa 11:9
They shall not do evil, Nor shall they bring ruin in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of Yahweh As waters are covering the sea.

There are huge gay pride events being held in the land of Israel, let alone the rest of the world. Obviously this time hasn't come

(CLV) Isa 11:10
And there will come to be in that day the Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a Banner of the peoples: Of Him the nations shall inquire, And His rest will come to be glorious.

(CLV) Isa 11:11
And it will come to be in that day, Yahweh shall again lift up His hand, To be zealous for »the remnant of His people Which shall remain from Assyria and from Egypt, From Pathros and from Cush, From Elam and from Shinar, From Hamath and from the coastlands of the sea.

(CLV) Isa 11:12
He will lift up a banner for the nations And gather the expelled of Israel, And He shall convene the scattered of Judah From the four wings of the earth.


Modern Israel came from Poland, Yemen and Aden, Morocco Tunisia, Algeria, Bulgaria, Turkey, Libya, Iran, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Germany, Austria, Egypt, USSR and Yugoslavia.

Source: "The Mass Aliya - Its Dimensions Characteristics and Influences on the Structure of the Israeli Population" in Mordechai Naor, Ed., Olim and Ma'Abarot 1948 -1952 (Jerusalem 1986): 34 (Hebrew)

By the numbers 83%+ from non-Isaiah lands, missing at least 3 lands, 49% from the Russian Steppes.

Isaiah is not 83% wrong!

Obviously YHWH has not called his people back into the land.

Many prominent Rabbis would agree: The Rabbis Speak Out

 

[Unqualified]

I’m sorry you feel this way. Good bye.’ But there are so many holes in this argument.
The Tanakh is by the Jewish rabbis writing not the Torah. In genesis at the beginning it say we have created man in our image. In psalms it talk of us meaning God.Isaiah talks of the virgin birth. As you know the Jews were blind to half the prophecies of the messiah. Isaiah chapter 53.

he brought them back in 1948 and there is a prophecy about it. But not in Torah.

He is outright lying about some of this stuff. Jesus rode into Jerusalem the very day of the king predict by Daniel, but the Jews would not acknowledge him if they knew. No one else did that.

He doesn’t give any reference or context. The person just wants to set you back on your heels and shut you up. Most of it is false.
You’d have to be prepared to refute this. When the messiah came he refuted all the myths about himself that the Tanakh had. If they had known the truth or believed him after thousands of miracles they would have known Him. But they were blind and jealous and jealous of Paul.

 

[HARK!]

The Tanakh is by the Jewish rabbis writing not the Torah.

TaNaK (Hebrew: תנ״ך), or Tanakh, is an acronym for the Hebrew Bible consisting of the initial Hebrew letters (T + N + K) of each of the text's three major parts. Since the ancient Hebrew langauge had no clear vowels, subsequent vowel sounds were added to the consonants resulting in the word TaNaK. The major portions of the Hebrew Bible represented by these three letters are:

1. Torah (תורה) meaning "Instruction" or "Law." Also called the Chumash חומש meaning: "The five"; "The five books of Moses." Also called the "Pentateuch." The Torah is often referred to as the law of the Jewish people.
2. Nevi'im (נביאים) meaning "Prophets." This term is associated with anything to do with the prophets.
3. Ketuvim (כתובים) meaning "Writings." This part of the Tanakh is further separated into different sections including a group of history books, wisdom books, poetry books and psalms.
   
   TaNaK - New World Encyclopedia

 

[HARK!]

he brought them back in 1948 and there is a prophecy about it.

I don't want this to turn into an argument; as this is a dedicated forum; and this is a MJ Only thread; but you might want to take a closer look at what I presented in Post #9.

 

[Unqualified]

OK sorry