Ellen White: Meat eating weakens moral powers

[FireDragon76]

How long did Ms White live?

vegans don't live long. I've studied nutrition and related issues.

Donald Watson was the British man that coined the term Vegan and he lived to be 95, despite avoiding doctors and medicine for the vast majority of his life.

Studies comparing vegan, vegetarian, and nonvegetarians generally show the vegan groups as being exceptional in having a normal body mass index and blood lipids, which are significant biomarkers associated with reducing risks of the leading chronic diseases.

 

[trophy33]

Donald Watson was the British man that coined the term Vegan and he lived to be 95, despite avoiding doctors and medicine for the vast majority of his life.

Studies comparing vegan, vegetarian, and nonvegetarians generally show the vegan groups as being exceptional in having a normal body mass index and blood lipids, which are significant biomarkers associated with reducing risks of the leading chronic diseases.

"There are studies..." argument is problematic, because studies can be poorly designed, biased, paid or just simply wrong and contradicted by other studies.

Its always a good practice to post the specific ones you refer to.

 

[FireDragon76]

"There are studies..." argument is problematic, because studies can be poorly designed, biased, paid or just simply wrong and contradicted by other studies.

Sure, they can be, but that doesn't mean that is the case for the majority of studies we have.

A recent meta-analysis of the studies comparing vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores, and blood lipid biomarkers for heart disease:

Meta-Analysis of Vegetarian or Vegan Diets and Blood Lipids - American College of Cardiology

Wendy L. Mercier, ACNP, PhD, EP-C

www.acc.org

 

[Laodicean60]

I can offer anecdotal evidence to that effect. My grandmother and mother, both of whom regularly ate meat, including the dreaded pork of the SDA, lived to 90 and 91, respectively. On my father's side there were six brothers who, in the eighteenth century, all lived past 90 and one lived to be 100 - all meat eaters. My mother had a first cousin who not only ate meat but enjoyed a small glass of wine at dinner. She lived to be two days shy of her 104th birthday.

By the way, all of these relative had strong moral fiber.

As my mom. I feel the reason the older generations lived longer was because, for most of their lives, they didn't eat the man-made poison in our food. When my mother had to work is when I got my first taste of TV diners and boy did I like it and that was before microwaves.

I believe God placed everything on this earth for our wellbeing so I don't buy into anyone trying to use the bible for the vegan ideology.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As my mom. I feel the reason the older generations lived longer was because, for most of their lives, they didn't eat the man-made poison in our food. When my mother had to work is when I got my first taste of TV diners and boy did I like it and that was before microwaves.

I believe God placed everything on this earth for our wellbeing so I don't buy into anyone trying to use the bible for the vegan ideology.

That is true to a large extent. I come from a long line of farmers and gardeners. When I was young my father routinely applied various pesticides and herbicides to our vegetables that have long since been banned. My father came from an impoverished family that barely eked out a subsistence in the Great Depression. Despite the meager diet two of my aunts died in their 90's. My uncle died from Lou Gehrig's disease which was probably related to his job working in a railroad shop with all sorts of nasty chemicals. My other aunt, who was a smoker, died in her late 70's, as did my grandparents (who were not smokers but had to endure the Great Depression).

 

[discombobulated1]

Sure, they can be, but that doesn't mean that is the case for the majority of studies we have.

A recent meta-analysis of the studies comparing vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores, and blood lipid biomarkers for heart disease:

Meta-Analysis of Vegetarian or Vegan Diets and Blood Lipids - American College of Cardiology

Wendy L. Mercier, ACNP, PhD, EP-C

www.acc.org

not buying that at all.

The reason some meat eaters have heart attacks and other problems is because they eat a lot of meat AND (this) AND (that)

If you eat a lot of meat and then have a big slice or 2 of apple pie with ice cream on the top

uh... yeh.

I eat nothing but meat some days, along with onions and green peppers and etc.. My blood pressure is excellent (last time I checked). It is the amount of food you ingest that is the problem. The digestion gets overwhelmed sometimes because people don't want to deprive themselves, much less fast here and there.

 

[discombobulated1]

My grandmother ate pork every day (at least nearly- every day, but I believe it was every single day)

She lived to be nearly 100. She'd probably even still be alive if she hadn't accidentally let some food go down the wrong way or something to that effect.

 

[FireDragon76]

not buying that at all.

The reason some meat eaters have heart attacks and other problems is because they eat a lot of meat AND (this) AND (that)

If you eat a lot of meat and then have a big slice or 2 of apple pie with ice cream on the top

uh... yeh.

I eat nothing but meat some days, along with onions and green peppers and etc.. My blood pressure is excellent (last time I checked). It is the amount of food you ingest that is the problem. The digestion gets overwhelmed sometimes because people don't want to deprive themselves, much less fast here and there.

You implied that eating a plant-based diet was unhealthy. The research doesn't back this up. Quite the opposite is true: Despite Meat Industry Lies, Plant-Based Diets Are Healthy | Common Dreams

FWIW, my blood cholesterol and triglycerides are low, and I'm not deficient in any micronutrients, according to my doctor's blood tests. My BMI is also in the normal range, despite being at an age (48) where almost everyone in the US is overweight or obese. My diet also isn't deficient in any micronutrients, and I save hundreds of dollars every year not buying meat, dairy, or eggs.

 

[tall73]

Sounds like you all need your own thread on the topic. This is not about health. I have already noted some do well on a vegetarian diet. Some do well eating meat.

The issue in this thread is whether God wanted Israel not to eat meat, and whether eating meat resulted in weakening of moral power.

 

[discombobulated1]

You implied that eating a plant-based diet was unhealthy. The research doesn't back this up. Quite the opposite is true: Despite Meat Industry Lies, Plant-Based Diets Are Healthy | Common Dreams

FWIW, my blood cholesterol and triglycerides are low, and I'm not deficient in any micronutrients, according to my doctor's blood tests. My BMI is also in the normal range, despite being at an age (48) where almost everyone in the US is overweight or obese. My diet also isn't deficient in any micronutrients, and I save hundreds of dollars every year not buying meat, dairy, or eggs.

That is not healthy long - term. I have studied this.

those who eat meat regularly and drink moderate amounts of alcohol live the longest. I've studied the lives of people who lived to be 115 and older.

some time ago, I had gotten into this habit of eating nearly anything I wanted. But one day I was so engrossed in a book, I forgot to eat. i went to be without eating and I noticed something: I felt better than ever.

Jesus fasted as a way to defeat the devil. That so and so is more intelligent (cunning) than humans, so that's important.. VERY

 

[discombobulated1]

Sounds like you all need your own thread on the topic. This is not about health. I have already noted some do well on a vegetarian diet. Some do well eating meat.

The issue in this thread is whether God wanted Israel not to eat meat, and whether eating meat resulted in weakening of moral power.

it weakens me. Years ago when I was much younger, i visited a friend who was a vegan, so I ate vegan for a couple days and boy, did I feel weak when I left there. I felt better when I ate a big juicy hamburger or whatever meat I chose to eat

Never did vegan again (though you can go a day or 2 like that w/o ill effects)

 

[discombobulated1]

You implied that eating a plant-based diet was unhealthy. The research doesn't back this up. Quite the opposite is true: Despite Meat Industry Lies, Plant-Based Diets Are Healthy | Common Dreams

FWIW, my blood cholesterol and triglycerides are low, and I'm not deficient in any micronutrients, according to my doctor's blood tests. My BMI is also in the normal range, despite being at an age (48) where almost everyone in the US is overweight or obese. My diet also isn't deficient in any micronutrients, and I save hundreds of dollars every year not buying meat, dairy, or eggs.

having low cholesterol is not necessarily an indication of good health. When a person has cancer, his /her cholesterol goes DOWN

When a person is dying, ditto

 

[FireDragon76]

That is not healthy long - term. I have studied this.

those who eat meat regularly and drink moderate amounts of alcohol live the longest. I've studied the lives of people who lived to be 115 and older.

Most people that have lived haven't been Vegan or eating a plant-based diet, so what you have is something without much context. It hasn't been until relatively recently that Vegan diets have been studied systematically.

Alcohol is not a superfood. In fact alcohol is a toxin and a carcinogen, with risk going up proportional to dosage. It's better not to drink, and no doctor who is ethical would recommend a non-drinker take up drinking.

 

[tall73]

I would consider participating in such a thread, as I have been at various times on a number of diets, including vegan, vegetarian, low fodmap, moderate carb paleo, lower carb paleo, keto, close to carnivore (but not full carnivore), etc. I think some people do better on one diet or another.

But that is not the topic of this thread. So go start a thread, and link to it, if you wish to have that discussion.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I would consider participating in such a thread, as I have been at various times on a number of diets, including vegan, vegetarian, low fodmap, moderate carb paleo, lower carb paleo, keto, close to carnivore (but not full carnivore), etc. I think some people do better on one diet or another.

But that is not the topic of this thread. So go start a thread, and link to it, if you wish to have that discussion.

I agree. Have we all come to the conclusion that Mrs. White was in error when she linked moral weakness to a diet which includes meat?

 

[discombobulated1]

Most people that have lived haven't been Vegan or eating a plant-based diet, so what you have is something without much context. It hasn't been until relatively recently that Vegan diets have been studied systematically.

I have read stories of people who were religiously vegan

They died in their 50s

 

[tall73]

I have read stories of people who were religiously vegan

They died in their 50s

okie dokie.

Any comment on the topic of the thread, which is not related to whether veganism is healthy?

 

[FireDragon76]

I have read stories of people who were religiously vegan

They died in their 50s

There are no religions that require adherents to be Vegans.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There are no religions that require adherents to be Vegans.

Are you familiar with Hinduism, especially Jainism?

 

[FireDragon76]

Are you familiar with Hinduism, especially Jainism?

Jainism doesn't require Veganism. Neither does Hinduism (which are really two separate religions).