Egyptian Mythology VS The Bible

[Catherineanne]

How would you respond to someone who brought this into a debate?

Tell your friends that your views are private and not for public discussion, and talk about something else.

 

[Catherineanne]

Please, you should start from Genesis. And more importantly the Exodus never happened. And I'm willing to bet my house that none of that stuff involving a random person coming into Egypt and just usurping a pharaoh outta nowhere.

o rly?

Your words.

I see where you are making your first mistake.

Assertion =/= proof.

Good luck with that one.

 

[Catherineanne]

Apparently Jesus believed in the bible ===as I said, that is good enough for me. He came to fulfill what was written. It is what He was raised on. Unless you believe that Jesus Christ was sold a bill of goods for 33 years and God the Father let Him die for nothing.

The Lord 'believed in' the Jewish Scriptures, what we would call the Old Testament. The Bible as we know it did not exist.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Lord 'believed in' the Jewish Scriptures, what we would call the Old Testament. The Bible as we know it did not exist.

I just thought everyone knows that!!! I mean, this is a Christian forum, that should have been obvious from the time you end the OT and the new one begins!!!

 

[juvenissun]

Sorry scientific precision? There's zero scientific evidence of a global flood. As as for unique Utnapishtim says 'hi'.

There are tons of scientific evidences that pointed to a Global Flood.

 

[Goonie]

There are tons of scientific evidences that pointed to a Global Flood.

No there are not. There is plenty of evidence of local floods within flood plains during different periods, but not a global one.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Simply because the Bible is pre dated by pagan myth,does not discount it's validity.

Moses is considered the author of the Torah.
Before Moses were the generations of Abraham who was from Ur of Chaldees.
Back further to Babylon and Mesopotamia.

Just because a story is older does not change our God, it validates him.
Consider who Christians Worship today,the God of Abraham and his generations.
We abide in the promises of God to Abraham,in that many nations would be blessed through his seed and it came to pass.

We have record in the Bible of the first people after the flood and who they became.

It is not just the story that is older, but the actual DOCUMENTS. The oldest OT manuscripts in existence are from about the second century BC. The Enuma Elish predates that by about 2000 years. Until you can provide an OT document that predates that, the only way the influence could possibly go is from the older to the newer document.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I see where you are making your first mistake.

Assertion =/= proof.

Good luck with that one.

Nice Snark. Too bad there's no recording of the Exodus happening. Which is proof enough.

You done now?

 

[pshun2404]

Egyptian Mythology tells a lot of the most important stories of the Bible in incredible accuracy, but PREDATES the Bible by very many years.
If this is true than that makes the Bible a copy and the Christian religion completely crumbles..
How can we combat this?

The supposition is a lie...here is a former conversation:

The story of Horus starts out around 2500 B.C. as the brother of Isis, Osiris, Set, and Nephthys. Centuries later his legend evolves into one where he becomes a son of Isis and Osiris. Osiris (the father he is a son of) is brutally murdered and his body is dismembered. The frantic Isis collects his body parts all except his penis which was cut off and eaten by a catfish in the Nile river. She put together and resuscitated Osiris corpse pieces and creates a magical golden penis. She then has sexual intercourse with the otherwise dead Osiris and gets pregnant and bears Horus as her alleged divine son.

Isis then was certainly no “virgin” and his “magical” birth is not anything like the birth of Christ. Secondly, contrary to mystical, astrological, and theosophical conjecture, there is no record that says Horus was born of December 25th…(shhh! It’s made up…but that’s a secret to all but the beguiled who really try as hard as they can to discredit and deny the Christ and His finished work).

If a reference is to the winter solstice, this event happens on the 20th (sometimes the 21st) not the 25th (not that we believe Christ was ACTUALLY born on that day). So Horus was a creature who has a human male body with a falcon head, and is a god of the Sun because his dead father Osiris was a god of the Sun. He is thus the offspring of death.

Now see http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/HORUS.htm

As for Attis, he was the god of vegetation whose self-mutilation, subsequent death, and then re-birth is commensurate with the fertility cycle (it happens over and over) and as such he is the male consort of Cybele. She is eventually indwelt by the hermaphrodite Agdistis who becomes Cybele’s real power, and he is the resulting returning fruit coming back each year but only for a season and re-dying each winter (over and over). Christ dies ONCE for all.

But the Olympain gods, fearing Agdistis, caused his male organ (agaiin the penis fixation) to be cut off and cast away (hermaphrodites have both). The story tells us the discarded member produced an almond-tree. Eventually it produced fruit. When its fruit was ripe, Nana (who was not a real virgin if you read about her), who was a daughter of the river god Sangarius, picked one of the penis born almonds and laid it in her bosom. The almond (a seed) disappeared within her bosom, and she became pregnant. Nana (not even close to Mary) abandoned her baby, Attis, and he was tended to by a he goat.

As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was considered “godlike” (like a god not God), and Agdistis fell in love with him. His foster parents (probably a he and she goat) sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some later versions, the King of Pessinos was King Midas whilethers give the king a different name. But just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went totally mad and cut off his genitals(again this removed penis thing)

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/attis.html

Heracles, on the other hand WAS known for his extraordinary human strength, his courage in fierce and bloody battles against Titans and beasts, his cunning ingenuity, and we must not forget his full blown bi-sexual prowess with both males and females.

He had a twin brother named Iphicles (not much is known about him). Heracles was a alleged to eventually be the king of Argos, and within thirty eight years of coming to the throne he became renowned as a god by the people. He murdered his music tutor Linus but who could challenge the strong man? By then the legend had already spread that the goddess of childbirth had been restricted and bound when he was born. Fear of Hera's revenge led Alcmene to expose the infant Heracles, but he was spared and taken up yp Olympus. He was then brought to Hera by his half-sister Athena (who always personified the protector goddess of all heroes). Hera did not recognize Heracles and nursed him out of pity.

The story tells us that Heracles suckled so strongly that he caused Hera pain, and she pushed him away. Her mother’s milk sprayed across the universe and there formed the Milky Way. Wow...sure sounds like Jesus and Mary to me...how about you? (God please forgive my sarcasm)

So just how does this sound like Jesus to you? His earthly mother had sexual intercourse with one of the gods(thus not a virgin), he was suckled by Zues’s jealous wife who casts him away, he was a bloody warrior,was a bi-sexual of renowned, loved young boys, he is never resurrected, and on and on…

And forget Odysseus as he was just a man, not claiming to be a god not doing any miracles and not distortedly born of a virgin, nor resurrected from the dead…but returns after a years long journey and so on

Now here is a great scholarly, well supported article, written by Professor and Historian Edwin Yamauchi that might help…definitely read this…

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/yama.html

Also did you know that Glycon was allegedly an the snake god (see Genesis 3) allegedly spoken of by the false prophet Alexander (some say Alexander the great) to fleece people out of their money, whom we do not even ever hear of until The Glycon Myth comes from the writings of one “Lucian” nearly two centuries after Christ (150 – 180 A.D.)?

Most claims like these you fell for are gross assumptions and do not take these tales for what they actually say into account but interpret them as having unfounded meaning. The accusers often draw their own conclusions, and force them to somehow fit, which are colored by later developments within the myths over centuries, while the Bible has remained consistent. In addition many of the alleged similarities were not even imported until after Christ events?

Finally, I would like to direct you to the article on GotQuestions entitled “"How do I know the Bible is not just mythology?" It is excellent source of information from intelligent reasoning and brings up some of the more important points one should consider when examining any of these other stories and comparing them.

Most of all have fun learning and prayerfully read your Bible…and remember, the story of Hercules or Glycon never transformed anyone’s life.

 

[pshun2404]

• Isis was not a virgin; she was the widow of Osiris and conceived Horus with Osiris.
• Horus was born during month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), not December 25. Further, there is no mention in the Bible as to Christ’s actual birth date.
• There is no record of three kings visiting Horus at his birth. The Bible never states the actual number of magi that came to see Christ.
• Horus is not a “savior” in any shape or form; he did not die for anyone.
• There are no accounts of Horus being a teacher at the age of 12.
• Horus was not “baptized.” The only account of Horus that involves water is one story where Horus is torn to pieces, with Isis requesting the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was placed into.
• Horus did not have a “ministry.”
• Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers and some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him.
• There is no account of Horus being betrayed by a friend.
• Horus did not die by crucifixion. There are various accounts of Horus’ death, but none of them involve crucifixion.
• There is no account of Horus being buried for three days.
• Horus was not resurrected. There is no account of Horus coming out of the grave with the body he went in with. Some accounts have Horus/Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and going to be the lord of the underworld.

This leads us to the next area to examine: the logical fallacies committed by those claiming that Christianity borrowed from pagan mystery religions. Two fallacies in particular are obvious— the fallacy of the false cause and the terminological fallacy. If one thing precedes another, it does not mean that the first caused the second. This is the fallacy of the false cause. Even if pre-Christian accounts of mythological gods closely resembled Christ (and they do not), it does not mean they caused the gospel writers to invent a false Jesus. Claiming such a thing would be like saying the TV series Star Trek caused the NASA Space Shuttle program.

The terminological fallacy occurs when terms are redefined to prove a point, when in fact such terms do not mean the same thing when compared to their source. So for example, the Zeitgeist movie says that Horus “began his ministry,” but Horus had no actual ministry – nothing like that of Christ’s ministry. Those claiming Mithras and Jesus are the same talk about the “baptism” that initiated prospects into the Mithras cult, but what was it actually? The Mithras priests (using a ritual also performed by followers of Attis) would suspend a bull over a pit, place those wanting to join the cult into the pit, slit the bull’s stomach, which then covered the initiates in blood. Such a thing has no resemblance whatsoever to Christian baptism—a person going under water (symbolizing the death of Christ) and then coming back out of the water (symbolizing Christ’s resurrection). But advocates of the mythological Jesus position deceptively use the same term to describe both in hopes of linking the two together.

The last issue to examine on this subject is the truthfulness of the New Testament itself. While much has been written on this topic, no work from antiquity has more evidence with respect to historical veracity than the New Testament. The New Testament has more writers (nine), better writers, and earlier writers than any other document from that era. Further, history testifies to the fact that these writers went to their deaths for claiming that Jesus had risen from the dead. While some may die for a lie they think is true, no person dies for a lie they know to be false. Think about it—if someone was about to crucify you upside down, as happened to the Apostle Peter, and all you had to do to save your life was renounce a lie you had knowingly been living, what would you do?

In addition, history has shown that it takes at least two generations to pass before myth can enter into a historical account. Why? Because eyewitnesses can refute error put in print. Those living at the time could refute the errors of the author and expose the work as being false. All the Gospels of the New Testament were written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses, with some of Paul’s epistles being written as early as 50 A.D. That early dating acts as a key protective mechanism against any falsehoods being accepted and circulated.

Finally, the New Testament attests to the fact that the portrayal of Jesus was not mistaken for that of any other god. When faced with Paul’s teaching, the elite thinkers of Athens said this: “He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is which you are proclaiming? For you are bringing some strange things to our ears; so we want to know what these things mean" (Acts 17:18-20). Clearly, if the accounts of Jesus were simply rehashing stories of other gods, the Athenians would not have referred to them at “new” teaching. If dying and rising gods were plentiful in the first century why, when the apostle Paul preached Jesus rising from the dead in Acts 17, didn't the Epicureans and Stoics remark, “Ah, just like Horus of the Egyptians”?

In conclusion, the claims that Jesus is nothing more than a myth, a copy of mythological gods, originated from authors whose works have been discounted by academia, commit logical fallacies that undermine their veracity, and cannot compare to the New Testament Gospels which have withstood nearly 2,000 years of intense scrutiny. The alleged parallels disappear when they are compared with the original historical texts. Go back and read the Yamauchi article. Similarities between Jesus and the various mythological gods can only be argued for by employing selective and misleading descriptions only.

 

[Hoghead1]

Where, Now Faith, do you think the church dogmas, teachings, and doctrines came from? From the experiences of their proponents. Where do you think the Bible came from? From the experience of the writers. Books and writings are important; but they are never any substitute for personal experience.

 

[Noxot]

Egyptian Mythology tells a lot of the most important stories of the Bible in incredible accuracy, but PREDATES the Bible by very many years.
If this is true than that makes the Bible a copy and the Christian religion completely crumbles..
How can we combat this?

reality has always been reality. deep spiritual truths have always been part of humans. only in more recent times has mythology kind of died out in favor of things such as science. only the outer layers of Christianity can crumble but the esoteric nature of religion is the thing that can renew it. exoteric religion is always based upon esoteric religion. dogmas are what other humans have spiritually experienced. they are made by those who had visions of God. obviously the experience itself has more authority than what a persons subjective understanding of the dogma would have. those who worship God can only properly do such if they worship him in spirit and in truth. that which can not endure the fire are by their very nature not meant to. it does not mean that the fire is wrong, it only means the more temporary and weak parts might either fade away or transform. there is always newness in the spirit but when outer religion and the rest of the things that belong to the world are cut off from the depths of reality they dry up and fade away.

you can find spiritual truth everywhere, the world is full of Gods glory. he hides even in the abyss.

 

[Locutus]

Can you define what areas of life you are referring to?

any, all.

 

[Catherineanne]

Nice Snark. Too bad there's no recording of the Exodus happening. Which is proof enough.

You done now?

With you? Certainly.

 

[now faith]

It is not just the story that is older, but the actual DOCUMENTS. The oldest OT manuscripts in existence are from about the second century BC. The Enuma Elish predates that by about 2000 years. Until you can provide an OT document that predates that, the only way the influence could possibly go is from the older to the newer document.

The kings of Babylon date back to 6th century BC,long before them Abraham fathered a nation.
It all begins with Abraham who was Chaldean.

Once again the age of the text is useless without Gods inspiration writing it

You can trace bloodlines in the Bible to Adam.
Believe what your heart desires it doesn't change anything ,or have any benefit.

 

[now faith]

Where, Now Faith, do you think the church dogmas, teachings, and doctrines came from? From the experiences of their proponents. Where do you think the Bible came from? From the experience of the writers. Books and writings are important; but they are never any substitute for personal experience.

Well Hoghead ,since God's Word is man's ideals I suppose truth is only as real as our own interpretation.

 

[Gene2memE]

The kings of Babylon date back to 6th century BC, long before them Abraham fathered a nation.

The Babylonian kings date well before the 6th century BC. The First Dynasty dates to about the 19th century BC.

 

[now faith]

The Babylonian kings date well before the 6th century BC. The First Dynasty dates to about the 19th century BC.

Your right ,I was multi tasking,it's 1750 BCE

 

[now faith]

Egyptian Mythology is a movement that seems to hang on through time.

It is recirculating today and it is a occult religion, so God has set before man life and death.

Choose Life

 

[JohnClay]

Hi just letting you know about a Wikipedia page about the popular documentary Religulous. It included a segment with the "Walk Like an Egyptian" song which said that Horus's story is similar to Jesus in many ways.
A youtube clip about this part:

Unlike other articles about documentaries, some people are not allowing criticisms about how factual the documentary is to exist.
Here is a line by line response to this part of the documentary:
http://www.strangenotions.com/horus-manure/
Here is a section in Wikipedia that was removed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Religulous&oldid=676747431#Christ_myth_theory
It didn't include references that were specifically talking about the movie.
Here is another version which does include references that are talking specifically about the movie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.ph...=731234395#The_Alleged_Horus-Jesus_Connection

I think the Religulous article needs to mention that the Horus segment is false or misleading. That way it will comfort Christians to know that this part of the movie is nonsense. It will also stop atheists from spreading misinformation and instead focus on criticisms that have some real evidence.