Did David rape Bathsheba?

[throughfiierytrial]

I think you're underestimating what women could or were supposed to do, even in those days. The Torah expected women in such cases to scream or resist (if in the vicinity of others). Her resistance could have made David very angry or worse, but God would have expected her to cop his anger rather than sin against God and her husband. Joseph went to jail for two years for his righteous refusal.

Mosaic Law required trials and hearings indeed, but the judge ultimately was the king himself (e.g. Solomon's case with the two prostitutes). That creates some context for a time where there was war, treason, political intrigues, coup d'etats - he had the authority to intervene directly himself in these cases; they could be matters of life or death for the monarchy.

David fought many wars - yet God calls him a man after God's heart (1 Samuel 13:14), a prophet, a man with compassion even (e.g. the story about Mephibosheth (2 Samuel 9), sparing Saul's life twice (1 Samuel 24 and 26)). Israelites and Jews after him would speak with high esteem and affectionately about him - even in Jesus' day - they wouldn't use the 'tyrant' qualification which is negative by definition.

Also, David thanks God for making him a stouthearted man

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Bathsheba was doing her post-menstrual ceremonial ablutions in the public mikvah. That's why the writer could know she was immediately post-menstrual. She would have been fully clothed as she went into the water, and she would not have been the only woman doing so.

I don't know what source you are using...not one I accept...it is additional to the Holy Scriptures.
But, I don't present my post to be either true or false.

 

[Diamond7]

Did David forcibly rape Bathsheba?

We read in 2 Samuel 12 8 "gave your master’s house to you and your master’s wives into your arms". 11This is what the LORD says: ‘I will raise up adversity against you from your own house. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to another, and he will lie with them in broad daylight. 12You have acted in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.’ ”

Sounds a little funny to me. Was all of this consensual? God is going to take his wives and give them to someone else?

My wife and I have arranged a lot of marriages. At least five or six but no one was forced into anything they did not consent to. Although I know one situation where the women really did not want the guy and my wife did a lot to persuade her to marry him. There is a lot more women that marry for money than anyone wants to admit to. Usually if a guy wants to play a women he gets a widow that has her first husbands money.

At my age my friends talk about women that want to marry them IF he will give her the house when he dies. This was suppose to be the deal my father had with his second wife. She was suppose to take care of him, but she did not really do what she said she was going to do. I regret now not changing the trust fund. I do not figure out how to deal with things until it is to late sometimes.

It takes a lot of effort to define just what is and what is not consent. This is not as clear cut as people seem to think it is.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

We read in 2 Samuel 12 8 "gave your master’s house to you and your master’s wives into your arms". 11This is what the LORD says: ‘I will raise up adversity against you from your own house. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to another, and he will lie with them in broad daylight. 12You have acted in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.’ ”

Sounds a little funny to me. Was all of this consensual? God is going to take his wives and give them to someone else?

My wife and I have arranged a lot of marriages. At least five or six but no one was forced into anything they did not consent to. Although I know one situation where the women really did not want the guy and my wife did a lot to persuade her to marry him. There is a lot more women that marry for money than anyone wants to admit to. Usually if a guy wants to play a women he gets a widow that has her first husbands money.

At my age my friends talk about women that want to marry them IF he will give her the house when he dies. This was suppose to be the deal my father had with his second wife. She was suppose to take care of him, but she did not really do what she said she was going to do. I regret now not changing the trust fund. I do not figure out how to deal with things until it is to late sometimes.

It takes a lot of effort to define just what is and what is not consent. This is not as clear cut as people seem to think it is.

Sounds fascinating; I guess marriage always has a transactional component in it (men without jobs usually are not very popular). But if the transaction component becomes the primary driver of the marriage that would be terrible, as self-centred reasons then will dominate.

If a woman only wants to marry a guy if she gets the house when he dies, she wants to marry the house, not the guy. I'd advise your friends to stay away from that. I can understand the concern of older women who wonder if marrying at that age, giving up their own home, will not make them vulnerable when her new husband passes away, but to set the bride-price to the value of the house seems suspicious, and might even be construed as creating an opportunity to lower the cooking skills to a lethal level.

 

[Diamond7]

might even be construed as creating an opportunity to lower the cooking skills to a lethal level.

A lot of women claim they are abused. But I wonder if they are not the one abusing their husband. People usually accuse others of what they are guilty of. Except it is impossible for a women to physically abuse a man. I had a girlfriend when I was in college. She had five brothers and was quite a cat fighter. If she sucker punched you then you knew you got hit, you could feel it. But I would just grab her arms and hold her down and there was not much she could do about that.

 

[RDKirk]

A lot of women claim they are abused. But I wonder if they are not the one abusing their husband. People usually accuse others of what they are guilty of. Except it is impossible for a women to physically abuse a man. I had a girlfriend when I was in college. She had five brothers and was quite a cat fighter. If she sucker punched you then you knew you got hit, you could feel it. But I would just grab her arms and hold her down and there was not much she could do about that.

Yes, there are many wives who physically abuse their husbands. It's true that the men could, if they got angry enough, put a physical stop to that, but for various reasons they allow their wives to continue striking them. That is still physical abuse.

 

[Diamond7]

for various reasons they allow their wives to continue striking them.

Why would they do that? It is hard for me to imagine because I played football and I went though combat training in the army so I would just defend myself if I were to be under attack. That would be my reaction. Although we were trained to defend ourselves without hurting anyone. My son studied self defense that way also. Just to defend yourself without doing any harm to others. But it does not take much to mess them up if you want to, just a little twist and they do it to themselves. Most girls do not even hit hard enough that you can feel it.

The main thing is you do not ever tell anyone what you are going to do. They can figure out later on what you did. It is not even that difficult to take a knife or gun away from them if you are near enough to do that.

 

[RDKirk]

Why would they do that? It is hard for me to imagine because I played football and I went though combat training in the army so I would just defend myself if I were to be under attack. That would be my reaction. Although we were trained to defend ourselves without hurting anyone.

A. They weren't trained to defend themselves without hurting anyone.
B. If you restrain a violently aggressive woman, she's going to call the police and claim you abused her. And the police will believe her.

 

[Diamond7]

B. If you restrain a violently aggressive woman, she's going to call the police and claim you abused her. And the police will believe her.

There is a chance there will be a small thumb burse. I do not think that is enough for the police to do anything. You would have to get doctors and emergency rooms involved in that. If you are able to grab them by the wrist, then chances are there will be no marks at all. There are other ways to embolize people that takes less strength or energy. Like i wrestling you can pin them. That leaves no marks also.

This is all a reflex. I have been attacked in my sleep and I still defend myself.

Once my first wife and I had an argument and the police were involved. She was drunk and admitted that she attacked me. The wanted to know if I wanted to files charges based on her confession. I said no because there was not anyway she could have hurt me. Actually my son told me she had an assault and battery charge when she attacked a policeman.

 

[RDKirk]

There is a chance there will be a small thumb burse. I do not think that is enough for the police to do anything. You would have to get doctors and emergency rooms involved in that. If you are able to grab them by the wrist, then chances are there will be no marks at all. There are other ways to embolize people that takes less strength or energy. Like i wrestling you can pin them. That leaves no marks also.

This is all a reflex. I have been attacked in my sleep and I still defend myself.

Once my first wife and I had an argument and the police were involved. She was drunk and admitted that she attacked me. The wanted to know if I wanted to files charges based on her confession. I said no because there was not anyway she could have hurt me. Actually my son told me she had an assault and battery charge when she attacked a policeman.

I stated that there are many men who are abused by their wives and, for their own various reasons, those men allow it.

You're telling me over and over that you wouldn't allow it.

That has nothing to do with the fact that there are many men who are abused by their wives and, for their own various reasons, those men allow it.

 

[Diamond7]

You're telling me over and over that you wouldn't allow it.

For men and women it is a constant battle NOT to allow themselves to be abused. Anyways, we agree that it is mutual that women abuse men as much as men abuse women and children are the most abused. 20% of children are evaluated for abuse. I have a LOT of people in my family that are professionals that deal with this daily.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

For men and women it is a constant battle NOT to allow themselves to be abused. Anyways, we agree that it is mutual that women abuse men as much as men abuse women and children are the most abused. 20% of children are evaluated for abuse. I have a LOT of people in my family that are professionals that deal with this daily.

You're right; I do notice the term 'abuse' gets abused a lot. Basically anytime our old self is playing-up we might be prone to letting selfishness reign and hence 'abuse' our loved ones nearby for our own comfort.

 

[Diamond7]

You're right; I do notice the term 'abuse' gets abused a lot.

Usually the threat of abuse is enough. Just threaten someone that you are going to tie them to the whipping post and beat them within an inch of their life and you may get the results you are looking for.