Climate Change acronym memory aid challenge - how to sum up risks to people and planet?

[eclipsenow]

I just stick to the facts, I don't trust any Carleton's or their doomsday theories. I don't drink the cool aid just because the majority of sheep do. I'm a practical and rational person, who needs to see evidence and proof of something before I swallow the cool aid.

You might need to recheck my post above - as I have edited it significantly. I just wanted to add a few things - and it sort of grew.

...the earth is only six thousand years old.

You are interested in Sci-fi and fantasy theories - like YEC!
You seem to like reading the symbolic bits of the bible literally - and then getting yourself into all sorts of trouble online arguing with people that accept what science says - which was by and large impacted by Christian men who understood the human faculty of reasoning to be sinful and prone to error - so we needed methods for checking that propensity to opinions influenced by our proclivities. So the empirical method was born. You should go read some books on the relationship between Science and Christianity like the stuff Alister McGrath has written - or try listening to John Dickson's "Undeceptions" podcast. But really - YEC has no business in here. This is a climate thread. And yes Climate is an old earth science - so if you can't bite your tongue on all that jazz - maybe this thread isn't for you?

BUT NOT ONLY does the basic physics of CO2 check out - we see glaciers melting, ice caps shrinking, seasons arriving earlier, record planetary temperatures that KEEP being broken by even higher temperatures, and the atmosphere ‘wetter’. (It carries 7% more water vapour for every degree C of warming.) Dry areas dry faster, and rainy areas dump deluges.

We see increasing famines and floods.

It also moves weather patterns, with some rain systems moving out to sea and missing the land.

It interacts with ENSO weirdly - sometimes throwing Australia into a freakish drought like the 2019 fires, and other times throwing us into years of La Nina - with freakish floods. Sydney had more rain in one weekend than all the other capital cities get in a YEAR!

Weather fluctuates - much like a young toddler playing in the bath water and making waves. Measure the waves and they go up and down, equalising over time. Climate is the fact that someone left the tap on. The last few decades have not been normal. We’re breaking all the records. People that deny this are … well, deniers. But they’re gradually getting older and dying out. Younger minds in school have the time to see CO2 trap heat - and learn how this works. Older minds are … older. Oh well. It’s always been the way.

 

[dlamberth]

I just stick to the facts, I don't trust any Carleton's or their doomsday theories. I don't drink the cool aid just because the majority of sheep do. I'm a practical and rational person, who needs to see evidence and proof of something before I swallow the cool aid.

We have zero evidence to support climate change and we have zero evidence to support an old earth. All the evidence shows there is no climate change and the earth is only six thousand years old.

I'm not interested in theories, as everybody has different ones so I'll just stick to the proven facts and leave that fantasy stuff for sci fi fans.

What kind of proof are you waiting on?

 

[Dan1988]

You might need to recheck my post above - as I have edited it significantly. I just wanted to add a few things - and it sort of grew.

You are interested in Sci-fi and fantasy theories - like YEC!
You seem to like reading the symbolic bits of the bible literally - and then getting yourself into all sorts of trouble online arguing with people that accept what science says - which was by and large impacted by Christian men who understood the human faculty of reasoning to be sinful and prone to error - so we needed methods for checking that propensity to opinions influenced by our proclivities. So the empirical method was born. You should go read some books on the relationship between Science and Christianity like the stuff Alister McGrath has written - or try listening to John Dickson's "Undeceptions" podcast. But really - YEC has no business in here. This is a climate thread. And yes Climate is an old earth science - so if you can't bite your tongue on all that jazz - maybe this thread isn't for you?

BUT NOT ONLY does the basic physics of CO2 check out - we see glaciers melting, ice caps shrinking, seasons arriving earlier, record planetary temperatures that KEEP being broken by even higher temperatures, and the atmosphere ‘wetter’. (It carries 7% more water vapour for every degree C of warming.) Dry areas dry faster, and rainy areas dump deluges.

We see increasing famines and floods.

It also moves weather patterns, with some rain systems moving out to sea and missing the land.

It interacts with ENSO weirdly - sometimes throwing Australia into a freakish drought like the 2019 fires, and other times throwing us into years of La Nina - with freakish floods. Sydney had more rain in one weekend than all the other capital cities get in a YEAR!

Weather fluctuates - much like a young toddler playing in the bath water and making waves. Measure the waves and they go up and down, equalising over time. Climate is the fact that someone left the tap on. The last few decades have not been normal. We’re breaking all the records. People that deny this are … well, deniers. But they’re gradually getting older and dying out. Younger minds in school have the time to see CO2 trap heat - and learn how this works. Older minds are … older. Oh well. It’s always been the way.

You're obviously biblically illiterate, so you really unqualified to comment on anything the bible says.

I noticed you walked straight past the elephant in the room and forget the main facts in the Bible.

God actually said He created everything in a aged state. So He didn't start with seedlings or embryo's. He created man fully mature, the trees were already six thousand years old 30 seconds after creation. And the earth and rocks and soil sediments were 4.5 billion years old when they were 30 seconds old.

The problem with pseudo science is, it uses the old circular reasoning scam Where you are forced to swallow the cool aid narrative and them force everything to conform to the scam. I don't expect you to be aware of the facts as it sounds like you've already drank up and sold out to them.

 

[Dan1988]

What kind of proof are you waiting on?

I actually have the proof, I was referring to the silent clueless majority who are waiting for proof of anything. But the proof will remain suppressed, and the masses will remain ignorant.

 

[eclipsenow]

God actually said He created everything in a aged state. So He didn't start with seedlings or embryo's. He created man fully mature, the trees were already six thousand years old 30 seconds after creation. And the earth and rocks and soil sediments were 4.5 billion years old when they were 30 seconds old.

Ok then. Prove there is a past at all? Like - how do we know we were not all just magically created 5 seconds ago with full life memories in some super-Matrix? Seriously dude - the bible says nothing of the sort. Genesis 1 is a highly structured narrative full of giveaways that it is not literal - and in case you didn't get it the first time - Genesis 2 utterly contradicts the order of Genesis 1. UNLESS of course - as Creationists are prone to doing - one 'fills in' the literal with all sorts of non-literal stuff and explanations. Which is not taking the text literally - and the YEC contradicts themselves.
Also - if you've ever read the flood narrative literally - you also need to understand that it is the oldest clearest example of a non-literal but highly important symbolic structure called Chiastic structure. The bible is a library of different books across different times talking to different audiences set in different places and contexts and writing genres. Yet it all fits together. But the fact that you try to read it as a literal whole is a bit on the nose in this day and age. The way you write you could be American.

Does the theory of evolution conflict with Christianity? - Undeceptions

Alister McGrath explains why there is this perception that Christianity is in conflict with Evolution. Adapted from Undeceptions episode 19.

undeceptions.com

Anyway, this is a climate thread. What part of this is not true?

 

[Dan1988]

Ok then. Prove there is a past at all? Like - how do we know we were not all just magically created 5 seconds ago with full life memories in some super-Matrix? Seriously dude - the bible says nothing of the sort. Genesis 1 is a highly structured narrative full of giveaways that it is not literal - and in case you didn't get it the first time - Genesis 2 utterly contradicts the order of Genesis 1. UNLESS of course - as Creationists are prone to doing - one 'fills in' the literal with all sorts of non-literal stuff and explanations. Which is not taking the text literally - and the YEC contradicts themselves.
Also - if you've ever read the flood narrative literally - you also need to understand that it is the oldest clearest example of a non-literal but highly important symbolic structure called Chiastic structure. The bible is a library of different books across different times talking to different audiences set in different places and contexts and writing genres. Yet it all fits together. But the fact that you try to read it as a literal whole is a bit on the nose in this day and age. The way you write you could be American.

Does the theory of evolution conflict with Christianity? - Undeceptions

Alister McGrath explains why there is this perception that Christianity is in conflict with Evolution. Adapted from Undeceptions episode 19.

undeceptions.com

Anyway, this is a climate thread. What part of this is not true?

Thanks for sharing that with us and thanks for proving my point.

You admit that anything is possible and nobody knows anything and reality may jus be an illusion. This view perfectly sums up what pseudo science teaches. It's exactly the point I was trying to make.

Those who put their trust in the scientific theories, have no foundation to build a theory on anything because anything goes as there is no truth or lies and no right or wrong. So it's a free for all, resulting in 8 billion deluded and confused people.

Again, I thank you for offering me the kool aid, but I'll stick to orange juice. My professor is offering his house to anyone who can produce a single shred of evidence to support climate change and the old earth theories.

The house has been on offer since 2012 and nobody has claimed it yet, but there are thousands of bounty hunters searching in vein

 

[eclipsenow]

You admit that anything is possible and nobody knows anything and reality may jus be an illusion. This view perfectly sums up what pseudo science teaches. It's exactly the point I was trying to make.

I said no such thing at all - and am saddened by your obvious basic problem with comprehension and context.

I was trying to show how your very 'convenient' reading of Genesis makes God into a trickster. According to YOU (not the text) he creates everything LOOKING billions of years old. You don't even realise that you're pushing the age old philosophical (not scientific!) question of "Is there a past?" Of course - there is no way to prove there is - it's one of those philosophical problems you just have to assume. Like - everything DIDN'T just spring out of nothing into existence fully formed with complete memories.

Those who put their trust in the scientific theories, have no foundation to build a theory on anything because anything goes as there is no truth or lies and no right or wrong. So it's a free for all, resulting in 8 billion deluded and confused people.

Now you're confusing a bunch of philosophical and religious and epistemological questions with science. I'm a Christian - and do not have half the problems you're trying to make stick on me. You're the one with the problem - because this is a science forum and you haven't said anything that makes sense scientifically - let alone theologically and metaphysically and philosophically. You're basically just ranting - and not very coherently. AT me. ABOUT me. And you've never met me - but I just happened to disagree with your YECism.

My professor is offering his house to anyone who can produce a single shred of evidence to support climate change and the old earth theories.

1. This thread is about climate change.
2. Oh no! It MUST all be fake - this kid's professor is offering his house - and so far Professor YEC has turned his nose up at peer-reviewed science and said "Nah! Not good enough! Not Happy Jan!"
3. IE: Nameless person on internet quotes nameless YEC professor using typical blunt YEC rhetoric - my whole worldview is undone!

I mean.... what the? How old are you?

Oh well. Ho hum. See my signature.

 

[Dan1988]

I said no such thing at all - and am saddened by your obvious basic problem with comprehension and context.

I was trying to show how your very 'convenient' reading of Genesis makes God into a trickster. According to YOU (not the text) he creates everything LOOKING billions of years old. You don't even realise that you're pushing the age old philosophical (not scientific!) question of "Is there a past?" Of course - there is no way to prove there is - it's one of those philosophical problems you just have to assume. Like - everything DIDN'T just spring out of nothing into existence fully formed with complete memories.


Now you're confusing a bunch of philosophical and religious and epistemological questions with science. I'm a Christian - and do not have half the problems you're trying to make stick on me. You're the one with the problem - because this is a science forum and you haven't said anything that makes sense scientifically - let alone theologically and metaphysically and philosophically. You're basically just ranting - and not very coherently. AT me. ABOUT me. And you've never met me - but I just happened to disagree with your YECism.


1. This thread is about climate change.
2. Oh no! It MUST all be fake - this kid's professor is offering his house - and so far Professor YEC has turned his nose up at peer-reviewed science and said "Nah! Not good enough! Not Happy Jan!"
3. IE: Nameless person on internet quotes nameless YEC professor using typical blunt YEC rhetoric - my whole worldview is undone!

I mean.... what the? How old are you?

Oh well. Ho hum. See my signature.

You can't be a Christian whilst claiming that God is a liar. You have obviously never studied the bible and you have put your trust in some Charlatan's theory.

You obviously don't know the basic facts about climate change and creation. I would recommend you find a qualified theologian to teach you the basics about Christianity. ie. God said He created everything in 6 days, so you either believe what He said and then you can claim to be a Christian or you can put your trust in Darwin.

Likewise you can look at the historical records to find that climate change is a scam.

 

[eclipsenow]

You can't be a Christian whilst claiming that God is a liar. You have obviously never studied the bible and you have put your trust in some Charlatan's theory.

You obviously don't know the basic facts about climate change and creation. I would recommend you find a qualified theologian to teach you the basics about Christianity. ie. God said He created everything in 6 days, so you either believe what He said and then you can claim to be a Christian or you can put your trust in Darwin.

Likewise you can look at the historical records to find that climate change is a scam

I imagine you standing there pointing your finger and shouting "You you YOU!" But here's the thing. You've never met me. And honestly - it sounds like you haven't met a majority of the Christian church. Newsflash: legalistic YEC's like yourself are a sad minority of Christians globally. Also, a sad fluke of North American culture from a hundred years ago or so. Your tone sounds like you're quite young - and your inability to respond politely to data put to you makes you also sound a bit dogmatic - from being a bit young and inexperienced at all this?

Hey - I could be wrong - you could be my age in your mid 50's. This is the internet. Some people just write funny.

Anyway - NOT THAT THIS IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD (what is that - the 5th reminder?) - but from my impression of you above - I've probably been a Theistic Evolutionist maybe twice as long as you've been alive? I've read books on it and done a little theology study and nearly went into ministry. I'm a Christian. I listen to books and podcasts from some of the greatest Apologists of our day - like Professor William Lane Craig (Professor of theology and Philosophy) and Dr John Dickson (Phd History and theology).

I suggest you relax. Try to open your mind, and realise that I really do believe the bible to be true - even Genesis - but not that all of it is one genre. Not all of the bible is literal. Otherwise Jesus would be a space-lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes! (Revelation).
Genesis 1 and 2 and 3 are not intended to be read as an engineering manual - but a poem about why God made the world - and the relationships in it. Not how!

Back to climate: do you know how much energy it takes to melt ice?
Is this fake news? Did someone get a REALLY long extension cord and stand here with a hair drier for 100 years?
Or is the planet warming?

 

[Dan1988]

I imagine you standing there pointing your finger and shouting "You you YOU!" But here's the thing. You've never met me. And honestly - it sounds like you haven't met a majority of the Christian church. Newsflash: legalistic YEC's like yourself are a sad minority of Christians globally. Also, a sad fluke of North American culture from a hundred years ago or so. Your tone sounds like you're quite young - and your inability to respond politely to data put to you makes you also sound a bit dogmatic - from being a bit young and inexperienced at all this?

Hey - I could be wrong - you could be my age in your mid 50's. This is the internet. Some people just write funny.

Anyway - NOT THAT THIS IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD (what is that - the 5th reminder?) - but from my impression of you above - I've probably been a Theistic Evolutionist maybe twice as long as you've been alive? I've read books on it and done a little theology study and nearly went into ministry. I'm a Christian. I listen to books and podcasts from some of the greatest Apologists of our day - like Professor William Lane Craig (Professor of theology and Philosophy) and Dr John Dickson (Phd History and theology).

I suggest you relax. Try to open your mind, and realise that I really do believe the bible to be true - even Genesis - but not that all of it is one genre. Not all of the bible is literal. Otherwise Jesus would be a space-lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes! (Revelation).
Genesis 1 and 2 and 3 are not intended to be read as an engineering manual - but a poem about why God made the world - and the relationships in it. Not how!

Back to climate: do you know how much energy it takes to melt ice?
Is this fake news? Did someone get a REALLY long extension cord and stand here with a hair drier for 100 years?
Or is the planet warming?

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None of that justifies the charge I have against you. So I still hold you to account and challenge you to explain how you can claim to be a Christian whilst treating what God has said as fairy tales and fables.

The fact that you have such a low view of God, tells me that you don't believe in the One true God who spoke to His children through the Bible.

The other thing that exposes you is this false claim that something must be true if enough people believe it. Well God said the opposite, He said Most Christians will come to Him on the day of judgement saying "Lord Lord, haven't we performed miracles in your Name and done many good works" but He will answer them by saying "depart from me into the ever lasting fire, for I never knew you".

so God Himself confirms that the vast majority of professing "christians" are going to be cast into the lake of fire. He said in another passage, that "the road that leads to hell is broad and many travel on it, but the road that leads to heaven is narrow and few find it.

So again He promised that most are going to hell, so I don't follow the crowd because I don't believe that something must be right and true just because it's popular as you obviously do.

The climate is not a static thing, it's always changing on a daily basis and it also changes over the run. Everyday goes from cool to warm to rainy to dry etc. That's what the climate does because God created it to do that. None of the climate alarmist dare debate the experts, they would be humiliated very quickly, so they avoid the real scientists ;like the plague

 

[dlamberth]

God actually said He created everything in a aged state. So He didn't start with seedlings or embryo's. He created man fully mature, the trees were already six thousand years old 30 seconds after creation. And the earth and rocks and soil sediments were 4.5 billion years old when they were 30 seconds old.

God actually said He created everything in a aged state. So He didn't start with seedlings or embryo's. He created man fully mature, the trees were already six thousand years old 30 seconds after creation. And the earth and rocks and soil sediments were 4.5 billion years old when they were 30 seconds old.

That perspective makes God's creation a lie. That doesn't work for me.

 

[AV1611VET]

That perspective makes God's creation a lie.

How so?

Would a loaf of raisin bread created 30 seconds ago be a lie, since raisins are processed grapes?

That doesn't work for me.

Perhaps you're marching to a different drummer?

 

[dlamberth]

How so?

Would a loaf of raisin bread created 30 seconds ago be a lie, since raisins are processed grapes?

The grapes having a known history would not be a lie. The same with the flower in the bread.

Perhaps you're marching to a different drummer?

The God I dance with is not capable of falsehoods.

 

[AV1611VET]

The grapes having a known history would not be a lie.

And what history would that be, seeing as even the ingredients didn't even exist at the time?

Notice how you're assuming the ingredients were there, just waiting to be assembled quickly in 30 seconds?

As if it is some kind of ten-piece puzzle that's waiting to be assembled as soon as possible?

So I'll ask you again.

If God created a loaf of raisin bread in an instance of time, would that constitute a lie?

 

[AV1611VET]

The God I dance with is not capable of falsehoods.

How about the One that I dance with?

 

[Ophiolite]

You can't be a Christian whilst claiming that God is a liar. You have obviously never studied the bible and you have put your trust in some Charlatan's theory.

You obviously don't know the basic facts about climate change and creation. I would recommend you find a qualified theologian to teach you the basics about Christianity. ie. God said He created everything in 6 days, so you either believe what He said and then you can claim to be a Christian or you can put your trust in Darwin.

Likewise you can look at the historical records to find that climate change is a scam.

I like the "whilst" instead of "while" in the first sentence. Too few people use whilst today; it carries a sense of elegance and seems more nuanced.

Unfortunately the rest of the post is full of misinformation, a false dichotomy, and empty assertions. Your last statement is palpably false, as attested to by almost all experts in the field. There are some things one can legitimately argue about climate change - its reality is not one of them.

 

[AV1611VET]

There are some things one can legitimately argue about climate change - its reality is not one of them.

QV please:

Synopsis:

Alarmists do four things:

1. Hide the data.
2. Repeat a mantra.
3. Act arrogantly.
4. Enlist all kinds of constituents that disagree with non-alarmists, because they [constituents] want to make money.

 

[Ophiolite]

Irrelevant.

1. I am not an alarmist.
2. The data can be found in the documents published openly by the IPCC.
3. Mantras seem one of the few things that attract the attention of people with their heads in the sand, fingers in their ears, incessantly mouthing la-la-la-la. . . .
4. You are mistaking disgust, fear and bewilderment for arrogance. Arrogance is ignoring the vast body of evidence for AGW.
5. Conspiracy theories are one of the last refuges of the incompetent.

Jay Lehr can take a hike along with your dangerous denials that contribute to the harm of my children and grandchildren. Enough already!

 

[AV1611VET]

Jay Lehr can take a hike along with your dangerous denials that contribute to the harm of my children and grandchildren. Enough already!

Are your children and grandchildren aware that these harms are being placed in check by the Creator of the earth Himself?

Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Or will they be left to themselves to fear needlessly; and grow up with a disdain for non-alarmists like grandpa?

For the record, did your parents put the fear of nature in you?

Or did you learn to fear this on your own through academia?

 

[dlamberth]

If God created a loaf of raisin bread in an instance of time, would that constitute a lie?

If God's believers said that the ingredients had actual real history when that's not the case, in my opinion that would make God's Creation a lie. But God can't lie. So your "IF" example is bogus and not based on anything.