LDS Can a Mormon Explain This to Me?

[drstevej]

In 1910, President Rudger Clawson wrote of the godhood women possess as a birthright from our Heavenly Mother:

“It doesn’t take from our worship of the Eternal Father, to adore our Eternal Mother, any more than it diminishes the love we bear our earthly fathers, to include our earthly mothers in our affections. . . . We honor woman when we acknowledge Godhood in her eternal prototype" (“Our Mother in Heaven,” Millennial Star 72, September 29, 1910).

What does the phrase acknowledge Godhood in her eternal prototype mean?

 

[drstevej]

Hello ?????

 

[drstevej]

Hello ?????

 

[Tra Phull]

( Methinks they have hie'ed to Kolob )

 

[Ironhold]

( Methinks they have hie'ed to Kolob )

OP -> 8:44 AM

Follow-up -> 9:30 AM

That's a mere 45 minutes on a day when most people would either be at local worship services or attempting to hold worship services at home.

In other words, it's rather rude by most forms of internet etiquette to be demanding an answer in such a short span of time, and this rudeness may be why people are choosing not to respond.

I mean, it's only 6 PM local time and I'm just now seeing this because I've been busy today. I had local worship services, then spent several hours helping my parents and others from church perform various tasks. That was followed up by half an hour of clearing out messages and then having to make a *very* expensive online order for my parents as they're nervous about buying anything online; I purchase the item using my debit card, and once it arrives they pay me back.

 

[drstevej]

What does the phrase acknowledge Godhood in her eternal prototype mean?

 

[Ironhold]

What does the phrase acknowledge Godhood in her eternal prototype mean?

That would require us to be able to track down the full quotation in context.

The fact that the citation you have includes ellipses means it's been edited, and I've seen far too many critics of the church make those edits for the sake of twisting or doctoring citations.

Worst case I saw was someone who took a bit from one paragraph at the start of a page, a bit from one paragraph at the end of the page, inverted the phrases so that the latter came first, and used an ellipses to merge them all together. She didn't understand why no one believed a word out of her mouth once we figured out what she'd done.

 

[BigDaddy4]

That would require us to be able to track down the full quotation in context.

The fact that the citation you have includes ellipses means it's been edited, and I've seen far too many critics of the church make those edits for the sake of twisting or doctoring citations.

Worst case I saw was someone who took a bit from one paragraph at the start of a page, a bit from one paragraph at the end of the page, inverted the phrases so that the latter came first, and used an ellipses to merge them all together. She didn't understand why no one believed a word out of her mouth once we figured out what she'd done.

You could have Googled the reference in the time it took you to type out another one of your irrelevant posts that does not answer the question. Your post contains about 120 words. At an average typing speed of of 40 words/minute, that's 3 minutes.

It takes Google about half a second to find the reference. About 3,510 results (0.48 seconds)

Seems like you just want to avoid answering the questions...

 

[Ironhold]

Full text of "Millennial Star"

Best, most complete copy I could find is from Archive.org, and even then it's full of formatting mistakes (such as the letter "w" constantly being rendered as "Av" for some reason).

To cite the section in full:

An unknown author has said, "Not only from the mouths of babes and sucklings has the cry gone forth for a Mother in heaven. Men, strong and brave, have yearned to adore her. The heart of man craves this faith and has from time immemorial demanded the deification of woman." It doesn't take from our worship of the Eternal Father, to adore our Eternal Mother, any more than it diminishes the love we bear our earthly lathers, to include our earthly mothers in our affections, in fact, the love of one is a com-
plement of our love for the other. We honor woman when we acknoAvledge Godhood in her eternal Prototype. And, man may never hope to reach the high destiny marked out for him by the Savior in these encouraging Avords: "Be ye perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," without woman by his side; for " neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord."

As we can see, the missing portions did indeed represent critical context that had been removed.

The piece, as a whole, is an apologia written in response to a group of hostile ministers. It's arguing that anyone who accepts Mary as Jesus' Earthly mother should have no problems accepting that he could have a mother up in Heaven, especially given the Father / Son terminology already in use in mainstream Christianity.

The missing chunk is a rhetorical bit noting comparing the love of a person's mortal parents to their love for their Heavenly parents.

 

[drstevej]

So Mormon Heavenly Mom is God?

 

[Ironhold]

So Mormon Heavenly Mom is God?

Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are a couple.

That's as far as the theology goes... something we've explained to you before.

 

[drstevej]

Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are a couple.

So,

• If She is not God, Heavenly Father married down and is unequally yolked.
• If She is God, should you not unashamedly worship Her? You worship Him.

THIS ^^^ You have never answered, you have evaded.

 

[Ironhold]

So,

• If She is not God, Heavenly Father married down and is unequally yolked.
• If She is God, should you not unashamedly worship Her? You worship Him.

THIS ^^^ You have never answered, you have evaded.

What part of "very little has been given beyond this" is not understood?

 

[drstevej]

You are avoiding the content of my post. Can you refute the logic of my statements?

Do YOU worship HEAVENLY MOTHER ???

 

[drstevej]

Look what I found at Wikipedia

Worship and prayer to Heavenly Mother
Orson Pratt, an early apostle of the LDS Church, opposed worshiping a heavenly Mother, because, he reasoned, like wives and children in any household, heavenly Mother was required to "yield the most perfect obedience to" her husband.[26]

Early leader George Q. Cannon thought that "there is too much of this inclination to deify 'our mother in heaven'", arguing that she is not part of the Godhead and that to worship her would detract from the worship of heavenly Father.[27]:78

However, early 20th-century church leader Rudger Clawson disagreed, arguing that "it doesn't take away from our worship of the Eternal Father, to adore our Eternal Mother ... [W]e honor woman when we acknowledge Godhood in her eternal prototype."[27]:79

Notice the word change ^^^^

"Godhood in her eternal prototype" isn't explained (gibberish???) and is avoided.

Reminds me of Ross Perot's description of the national debt...

 

[Ironhold]

Are we really doing this again?

This is what, the 12th time you've started a thread on this topic since I've been here?

 

[drstevej]

So you do worship Heavenly Mom?

• Yes
• No

 

[drstevej]

So you do worship Heavenly Mom?

• Yes
• No

Still waiting.

 

[dzheremi]

Are we really doing this again?

This is what, the 12th time you've started a thread on this topic since I've been here?

Yeah, Drstevej, why do you continue to make threads about something that Mormons refuse to answer, just because they continue to refuse to answer it while acting like they have?

Seems kind rude, if you ask me.

 

[Rescued One]

Not all gods are equal. Mormons don't worship all of them!