Arguments Against Old Earth Theory

[RickG]

Special creation is way too obvious, to me at least, to consider the alternative.

I respect that. My only beef is with "creation science", a source that abuses Exodus 20:16.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I respect that. My only beef is with "creation science", a source that abuses Exodus 20:16.

I'm content to wait for secular science to eventually admit that it has hit the wall in their understanding, but that there is 'something' behind that wall.

 

[Gene2memE]

I'm content to wait for secular science to eventually admit that it has hit the wall in their understanding, but that there is 'something' behind that wall.

You do realise that science ("secular" or otherwise) is underpinned by methodological naturalism? To quote Eugenie Scott the methodology of science "explains the natural world using only natural causes. Science cannot explain (or test explanations about) the supernatural."

Science is a methodology - a series of practices used to arrive at knowledge about the natural world. It cannot make any statements about anything other than the natural world.

What you're proposing is 'gap-ism'. Where there is uncertainty or incomplete understanding, you insert God. The start of the universe, the development of life, the formation of consciousness, ect. These are questions not fully resolved yet, so theists seek to overlay their frameworks of belief into the gap that exists between understanding and ignorance.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You do realise that science ("secular" or otherwise) is underpinned by methodological naturalism? To quote Eugenie Scott the methodology of science "explains the natural world using only natural causes. Science cannot explain (or test explanations about) the supernatural."

Science is a methodology - a series of practices used to arrive at knowledge about the natural world. It cannot make any statements about anything other than the natural world.

What you're proposing is 'gap-ism'. Where there is uncertainty or incomplete understanding, you insert God. The start of the universe, the development of life, the formation of consciousness, ect. These are questions not fully resolved yet, so theists seek to overlay their frameworks of belief into the gap that exists between understanding and ignorance.

I understand that. What I'm saying is that science will come to a dead end in many of their explorations. That's where our 'wheelhouse' starts. For example, the bible reveals that everything is made up of things unseen, imperceptible, by man, and upheld by the word of God's power. I accept that on faith, and while science cannot prove or disprove it, it will be the only explanation when they run out of explanations. They will realize that there has to be another agent or agency there but they cannot detect it using the scientific method. We actually may be seeing this already in theories like 'string theory' and 'dark matter'.

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't see it that way.

Then you see it incorrectly.

It's not an either/or issue.

Yeah, it is. If you reject a scientific conclusion because it conflicts with your faith based religious beliefs, then you are rejecting science. Period.

But I believe that the "spirit in man" imparts the consciousness and intellect.

Your beliefs have nothing to do with science.

 

[Loudmouth]

I'm content to wait for secular science to eventually admit that it has hit the wall in their understanding, but that there is 'something' behind that wall.

Calling it secular science is like using the term secular baseball, or secular poker. Science is secular by definition.

Also, when have we ever made new strides in understanding how nature works by inserting magic where we are ignorant of how something works? Your God of the Gaps hasn't ever worked, so why do you want scientists to use it?

 

[Loudmouth]

I understand that. What I'm saying is that science will come to a dead end in many of their explorations. That's where our 'wheelhouse' starts.

Except that your wheelhouse has struck out every time. Time and again, when science hits a dead end it looks for naturalistic explanations and then finds them. Not once has anyone ever found a verified supernatural cause for any mystery in nature.

For example, the bible reveals that everything is made up of things unseen, imperceptible, by man, and upheld by the word of God's power. I accept that on faith, and while science cannot prove or disprove it, it will be the only explanation when they run out of explanations.

That is not an explanation.

 

[PapaZoom]

If you reject the ToE, then you reject science.

You'd have to clarify what you mean by TOE because there's more than one way to understand that. We observe evolution in nature, that's undeniable. But to what extent? Also, which model of TOE? There is more than one right?

 

[PapaZoom]

But the rejection of ToE is based on belief, rather than any science that contradicts it, right?

Could we define TOE?

BTW, I believe in a very old universe. Older than me even.

 

[RickG]

Could we define TOE?

BTW, I believe in a very old universe. Older than me even.

Through time, populations of plants and animals evolve. If evolution had not occurred, all fossils, both plant and animal, would be found in all layers of the geologic column. They are not. There are no Devonian bunny rabbits or Pleistocene trilobites.

 

[PapaZoom]

Through time, populations of plants and animals evolve. If evolution had not occurred, all fossils, both plant and animal, would be found in all layers of the geologic column. They are not. There are no Devonian bunny rabbits or Pleistocene trilobites.

Wouldn't you also see that with time gaps in the creation process (as in God creating). So He creates "primitive" forms and then those die out as new forms with new body plans "pop" into existence. (such as is seen in the Cambrian explosion). This is a question not a statement.

 

[-57]

Through time, populations of plants and animals evolve. If evolution had not occurred, all fossils, both plant and animal, would be found in all layers of the geologic column. They are not. There are no Devonian bunny rabbits or Pleistocene trilobites.

Would you expect to see a bunny rabbit buried with a trilobite? I wouldn't.

 

[PapaZoom]

Would you expect to see a bunny rabbit buried with a trilobite? I wouldn't.

Not with but not within the same geologic strata either.

 

[-57]

I understand that. What I'm saying is that science will come to a dead end in many of their explorations. That's where our 'wheelhouse' starts. For example, the bible reveals that everything is made up of things unseen, imperceptible, by man, and upheld by the word of God's power. I accept that on faith, and while science cannot prove or disprove it, it will be the only explanation when they run out of explanations. They will realize that there has to be another agent or agency there but they cannot detect it using the scientific method. We actually may be seeing this already in theories like 'string theory' and 'dark matter'.

We do see Gods finger print in the microscopic level of the cell..

 

[RickG]

Wouldn't you also see that with time gaps in the creation process (as in God creating). So He creates "primitive" forms and then those die out as new forms with new body plans "pop" into existence. (such as is seen in the Cambrian explosion). This is a question not a statement.

The Cambrian explosion spanned tens of millions of years, there was no popping into existence then.

 

[PapaZoom]

We do see Gods finger print in the microscopic level of the cell..View attachment 179602

I think we see God's fingerprint everywhere. If we're open to looking that is.

 

[PapaZoom]

The Cambrian explosion spanned tens of millions of years, there was no popping into existence then.

Well from a geologic time-frame there was

 

[-57]

Not with but not within the same geologic strata either.

All of the geological strata are a result of the flood of Noah and are the same age.
We have evidense for this when we find sodt tissue in dino's that are suppose to be 65+ MY's old.....or C14 in coal. (neither of which should be there)

 

[-57]

I think we see God's fingerprint everywhere. If we're open to looking that is.

Our planet has been called a godilocks planet. Another of Gods fingerprints.

 

[PapaZoom]

All of the geological strata are a result of the flood of Noah and are the same age.
We have evidense for this when we find sodt tissue in dino's that are suppose to be 65+ MY's old.....or C14 in coal. (neither of which should be there)

I'm not familiar with all these. But I believe the Noahic flood was more a local flood. There are several theories about this. As for determining the age of the earth, the best evidence for an old earth, in my very primitive understanding, has to do with the expanding universe and observations of the cosmos.