Anthropic Principle and Cyclic Model of Universe imply God evolved/learned?!

Are you offended by the idea of God learning or evolving?

  • No, I am an atheist and do not believe in God doing anything!

  • Yes, for God to be God He/She would always have to know everything!

  • No, it does seem logical that God works and therefore would learn or "evolve!"

  • Yes, scripture is clear that God changes not!!!!


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DennisTate

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Ever since I read my first article on String Theory I have been wondering if it is accurate to say that God evolved or learned over infinite time in the past and in a sense planned and choreographed an infinite number of Big Bang events previous to our most recent Big Bang of 13.72 billion years or so ago??!!
 

DennisTate

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How about I'm not offended by what others think?

ETA.
Though why this is in "Creation/Evolution Formal Debates" I've no idea. :confused:


In order for evolution to occur....it must begin??!!

I am of the belief that God learned or in a sense evolved over infinite time in the past. I regard it as rather silly to confine evolutionary theory to the fourth - dimension of space - time and about 4.5 billion years??!!


Mellen-Thomas Benedict - near-death experiences


When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That's a mind-expanding thought, isn't it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the universe. I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations.
 
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nuttypiglet

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How could God learn anything from evolution? He had the book of life before anyone was created, knowing who would be saved in the last days and who wouldn't. With so many accurate prophecies in the bible, God obviously knows what will happen, before it does. He doesn't need to learn. I'm not sure if string theory can be taken seriously anyway, it's one of those ideas to try and steer away from God. Just like the infinite number of Universes theory. How can we ever prove string theory? we would need a collider the size of our galaxy to detect strings. We can't even think of ways to detect reality, let alone other Universes.
 
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DennisTate

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How could God learn anything from evolution? He had the book of life before anyone was created, knowing who would be saved in the last days and who wouldn't. With so many accurate prophecies in the bible, God obviously knows what will happen, before it does. He doesn't need to learn. I'm not sure if string theory can be taken seriously anyway, it's one of those ideas to try and steer away from God. Just like the infinite number of Universes theory. How can we ever prove string theory? we would need a collider the size of our galaxy to detect strings. We can't even think of ways to detect reality, let alone other Universes.


Good question nuttypiglet!

Have you ever heard of The Law of Complexity Consciousness?


Law of Complexity/Consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Law of Complexity/Consciousness is the tendency in matter to become more complex over time and at the same time to become more conscious. The law was first formulated by Jesuit priest and paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

Teilhard holds that at all times and everywhere, matter is endeavoring to complexify upon itself, as observed in the evolutionary history of the Earth. Matter complexified from inanimate matter, to plant life, to animal-life, to human-life. Or, from the geosphere, to the biosphere, to the noosphere (of which humans represented, because of their possession of a consciousness which reflects upon themselves). As evolution rises through the geosphere, biosphere, and noosphere, matter continues to rise in a continual increase of both complexity and consciousness.

For Teilhard, the Law of Complexity/Consciousness continues to run today in the form of the socialization of mankind. The closed and circular surface of the Earth contributes to the increased compression (socialization) of mankind. As human beings continue to come into closer contact with one another, their methods of interaction continue to complexify in the form of better organized social networks, which contributes to an overall increase in consciousness, or the noosphere.

Teilhard imagines a critical threshold, Omega Point, in which mankind will have reached its highest point of complexification (socialization) and thus its highest point of consciousness. At this point consciousness will rupture through time and space and assert itself on a higher plane of existence from which it can not come back.

Interestingly, for Teilhard, because the Law of Complexity/Consciousness runs everywhere and at all times, and because of the immensity of both time and space in outer space, and the immensity of the chances for matter to find the right conditions to complexify upon itself, it is highly probable that life exists, has existed, and will exist in the universe apart from our Earth.
 
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DennisTate

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How about I'm not offended by what others think?

ETA.
Though why this is in "Creation/Evolution Formal Debates" I've no idea. :confused:


How about if we tied this in with the subject of some sort of "hell" and/or prison environment for the lost?

I have asked myself many times if perhaps Dr. Michael Yeager saw nothing less than fundamental energy in their raw state in his scary vision that changed his life!


Dogmatic Atheists Lack Mathematical Aptitude.: Did God Evolve?


A VISION of HELL Gehenna - HADES - SHEOL. It is Eternal Torment!

Dr. Michael Yeager, on the verge of suicide and with a knife to his wrist a fear hit him which he now recognizes as the fear of God. He dropped his knife and went to his knees and asked the Lord to forgive him of his sins and he gave his life to the Lord.

He was immediately freed from all addictions and was given a desire to tell others about Jesus. What stuck out to me the most is that he said that selfishness is the beginning of being on the pathway to hell. He mentions things like being obsessed with TV watching, sports and anything else we love more than God, as very dangerous and can place us on the wrong path.

One night when in prayer he received a vision of hell and the floor of his room opened up he kept falling down and down in a deep dark hole for miles and miles. It was very real and he could see, touch, smell, feel everything. Fear was filling his whole being.

A wind was blowing from this hole that seemed to be bottomless and the odor was so strong it was sickening. By looking between his feet he could see a distant orange glow. As he approached this orange glow it became bigger and bigger and he then entered a cavern and he was over a huge area of what looked like lava sending flames hundreds of feet into the air. Earth shattering explosions could also be heard. He knew he was still about 10,000 feet above this burning sea and even at that distance the heat was almost too much to bear and it felt like his skin was actually burning off.
 
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DennisTate

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Dr. Michael Yeager, part 2:


The smell was so nauseating that it made him cough and gasp for air but there was none. His ears than began to be filled with a very eerie sound that sounded like humming. This sound was constant and got louder and louder as he approached the lava. God opened his understanding as to what the sound was. The sound was actually human beings screaming in unbelievable agony. He realized that God was showing him a vision of hell.

At about 200 feet above this lake of lava, fire and brimstone, the pain got almost too much to bear. He then saw some objects bobbing up and down in this burning sea of what looked like lava. There were tens of thousands of these objects. These objects were actually human beings bobbing up and down and back and forth. These people were weeping and wailing in extreme agony.

No relief from pain was available to them. Their bodies were burned black in this sea of fire and brimstone. Suddenly he plunged into the lava and it covered him and filled his eyes, nose throat, lungs etc. His eyes felt like they were being consumed out of their sockets and could barely breathe. He finds it difficult to explain the amount of pain he was experiencing. He also knew hell was eternal and no chance of getting out.

He was shown that selfishness is the gateway to hell. Excruciating pain overtook him fully as he was submerged in this sea of fire and brimstone that looked like lava. As he was sucked down into this sea he was in total darkness with no light at all. He was suffocating and could not take a breath but yet he was not dying. When he returned to the surface he realized that he was till intact and his five senses were very much alive.

There were other creatures in the sea of fire that looked like huge worms. They would come to the surface and then disappear and then return to the surface. About 20 feet from him he saw them coming to the surface and they were coming towards him. When they reached him they began boring into him and went inside his body and brain and were coming out of his eyes. They were driving him insane. (where the worm dieth not) There is no end to these things in hell. They are eternal. There is no place to go for any relief. There is no love there. It is totally void of love. An emptiness beyond comprehension enveloped him.

Although there were many, many others there, there were no communications whatsoever. Your memory is also there still with you and you can remember everything that went on in your life, including each time the Gospel was presented to you and you refused.

He then was gripped with an intense thirst. There was no way to quench this thirst. (rich man and Lazarus) If the message of the Gospel is rejected you will be forever tormented in hell like the Bible so clearly says. The voice of God then echoed across the sea of fire and brimstone and lava telling hell to release him and he was returned back to his room.
 
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DennisTate

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Here is how I worded my impression of what Dr. Michael Yeager might have been seeing when I posted this two years ago!
......

When I first ran into the negative NDE accounts they threw me into a major theological and philosophical crisis. How could a loving God allow a place like hell to actually exist?

Now I have to admit that the negative NDE or out of the body experience or visionary accounts may have a logical basis in theoretical physics.

If YHWH/God actually evolved over infinite time, then there may have been a time when all God had around Him/Her was Super Strings and Super Energetic Matter. If there are no other beings in the universe then it is difficult to altruistically worry about others, if there are no others.

The thought has crossed my mind that some visions of hell may be people having their consciousness taken down to become somewhat like a living conscious electron microscope. Did Dr. Michael Yeager see and experience the off the scale energy and horror of tenth or eleventh dimensional space time where he perceived Super Strings as worms chasing him around and did his consciousness perceive the off the scale energy of the fundamental dimensions as heat that ripped his soul/higher dimensional body apart?!

I have concluded that I should no longer consider the people who have warned me about hell to be completely off their rockers and ignorant even of scripture. At this time I suspect that these visions of hell could have a basis in theoretical physics!

Please keep in mind that I personally believe that YHWH has a plan to save absolutely everybody eventually but we seem to be allowed essentially absolute freedom of choice. Selfishness is an extremely bad choice for us to make. The word for "forever" in Hebrew literally means until the end of conditions last. Selfishness is an attitude that we must conquer or the consequences could be far worse than we could possibly imagine.
 
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