An Icon of Woman and of Motherhood - Christian and Otherwise

[truefiction1]

Contemporary Orthodox Christian Religious Procession (celebration).

Contemporary Pagan Religious Procession (celebration).

 

[public hermit]

Contemporary Orthodox Christian Religious Procession (celebration).

Contemporary Pagan Religious Procession (celebration).

Oh look, an easy target. Since we're on level ground, so to speak, what's the role of women in the EO church? They're pretty much second class citizens, right? Old country stuff? I get it, whatever. Post something worth debating or go back in that safe hole and condemn the world. Pfft.

 

[truefiction1]

Oh look, an easy target. Since we're on level ground, so to speak, what's the role of women in the EO church? They're pretty much second class citizens, right? Old country stuff? I get it, whatever. Post something worth debating or go back in that safe hole and condemn the world. Pfft.

If you want to know the role of women in the Church, or in the blessed Life in Christ, contemplate, perhaps, in Truth on the life of the Theotokos. Also, what does Holy Scripture reveal about woman?

 

[public hermit]

If you want to know the role of women in the Church, or in the blessed Life in Christ, contemplate in Truth on the life of the Theotokos. Also, what does Holy Scripture reveal about woman?

I get it, I just don't buy it. The Theotokos is one of many. Christ is born in all of us, regardless of gender. Put her on a pedestal all you want, but if you don't lift up all women, all people, to her level, then you are just more of the rich that get sent away.

 

[truefiction1]

I get it, I just don't buy it. The Theotokos is one of many. Christ is born in all of us, regardless of gender. Put her on a pedestal all you want, but if you don't lift up all women, all people, to her level, then you are just more of the rich that get sent away.

Who says we aren't to lift up all women to her level? Aren't we Christians taught by he Saints to make sure to see Christ, or Christ like potential even in the least of His servants? I'm afraid I don't understand.

 

[prodromos]

what's the role of women in the EO church? They're pretty much second class citizens, right?

Ignorant post is ignorant.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Oh look, an easy target. Since we're on level ground, so to speak, what's the role of women in the EO church? They're pretty much second class citizens, right? Old country stuff? I get it, whatever. Post something worth debating or go back in that safe hole and condemn the world. Pfft.

“It wasn’t the clergy who preserved the Church under the Soviets. It was the faithful babas.”

“The time will come, when the patriarch will look ahead at Christ’s right on judgment day, see the old woman who cleaned the Church, and say, ‘Pray for me, mother. For I have not yet begun to repent.’”

I really don’t think you do get it, because that was a really stupid and ahistorical thing to say.

 

[public hermit]

“It wasn’t the clergy who preserved the Church under the Soviets. It was the faithful babas.”

“The time will come, when the patriarch will look ahead at Christ’s right on judgment day, see the old woman who cleaned the Church, and say, ‘Pray for me, mother. For I have not yet begun to repent.’”

I really don’t think you do get it, because that was a really stupid and ahistorical thing to say.

Your tradition, as wonderful as it is, is patriarchal through and through. That's just a fact. Women have kept the whole church, not just your tradition, afloat from the beginning. Why not let them lead, too?

 

[truefiction1]

Your tradition, as wonderful as it is, is patriarchal through and through. That's just a fact. Women have kept the whole church, not just your tradition, afloat from the beginning. Why not let them lead, too?

What is there to see from Scripture with regards to women leading in the Church? Do you know of any passages suggesting this ought to be an aspect of the Life in Christ?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Your tradition, as wonderful as it is, is patriarchal through and through. That's just a fact. Women have kept the whole church, not just your tradition, afloat from the beginning. Why not let them lead, too?

who says they don’t? do you really think that leadership in the Orthodox Church depends on if you wear vestments on a Sunday? do you think that maybe, just maybe real leadership in the Church is from being holy and like Christ, and that the organizational order to the Church is the lower form of leadership that we put less stock in?

 

[public hermit]

do you really think that leadership in the Orthodox Church depends on if you wear vestments on a Sunday

Yes, I do. Y'all (the men in leadership positions) have the power; y'all make the decisions. You can say real leadership is about being holy and living like Christ, which sounds good, but the reality is men are running the show. In Christ there is no male or female, unless you come to church, then y'all women need get back in your place.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, I do. Y'all (the men in leadership positions) have the power; y'all make the decisions. You can say real leadership is about being holy and living like Christ, which sounds good, but the reality is men are running the show. In Christ there is no male or female, unless you come to church, then y'all women need get back in your place.

clearly you have never been to a woman’s monastery, and watched clergy follow the orders of the abbess or senior nuns.

seriously, these shallow views of our Church and how she runs are not helping the point that you are trying to make. it just looks dumb.

plus the decision of Chalcedon was finished by the miracle of St Euphemia (a woman) because the men couldn’t agree.

so, no you don’t

 

[public hermit]

clearly you have never been to a woman’s monastery, and watched clergy follow the orders of the abbess or senior nuns.

seriously, these shallow views of our Church and how she runs are not helping the point that you are trying to make. it just looks dumb.

I think your tradition is awesome. I don't have a shallow view of it. I thank God for so many that represent it, but when it comes to the patriarchal structure, I think it's woefully mistaken. You can assert that what I'm saying is stupid and dumb all day long, but you can't hide the fact because it's glaring.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think your tradition is awesome. I don't have a shallow view of it. I thank God for so many that represent it, but when it comes to the patriarchal structure, I think it's woefully mistaken. You can assert that what I'm saying is stupid and dumb all day long, but you can't hide the fact because it's glaring.

I can and I will, as someone who is Orthodox. to think that you can apply 20th century values to the Church is just silly. plus, it ignores what women have done in leadership roles in the Church’s history. you said women don’t make decisions in the Church (false, look at Chalcedon or the women monarchs in Georgia or the Byzantine Empire). you say that men run the show (false, look at an abbess or an eldress).

it’s only patriarchal if you look at it with secular eyes with no real deep looking into the Church.

 

[public hermit]

I can and I will, as someone who is Orthodox. to think that you can apply 20th century values to the Church is just silly. plus, it ignores what women have done in leadership roles in the Church’s history. you said women don’t make decisions in the Church (false, look at Chalcedon or the women monarchs in Georgia or the Byzantine Empire). you say that men run the show (false, look at an abbess or an eldress).

it’s only patriarchal if you look at it with secular eyes with no real deep looking into the Church.

I'll think about what you're saying, Matt. Perhaps things look very different from the inside, I don't know.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'll think about what you're saying, Matt. Perhaps things look very different from the inside, I don't know.

they always do. you need to know how Orthodoxy views authority and what should be held in honor, and make a judgment from there. plus, for something like this, you gotta know the history as well.

 

[truefiction1]

I think your tradition is awesome. I don't have a shallow view of it. I thank God for so many that represent it, but when it comes to the patriarchal structure, I think it's woefully mistaken. You can assert that what I'm saying is stupid and dumb all day long, but you can't hide the fact because it's glaring.

What's wrong with the patriarchal structure? If God ordered things a particular way in creation, in accordance with His will, what good do we expect will come from fighting against that order? Is there a reason that Orthodox believers ought to apologize for the way God's inscrutable Wisdom has arranged things?

 

[Not David]

“It wasn’t the clergy who preserved the Church under the Soviets. It was the faithful babas.”

“The time will come, when the patriarch will look ahead at Christ’s right on judgment day, see the old woman who cleaned the Church, and say, ‘Pray for me, mother. For I have not yet begun to repent.’”

I really don’t think you do get it, because that was a really stupid and ahistorical thing to say.

Father Matt, do you have the source for those quotes? I would like to share them.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father Matt, do you have the source for those quotes? I would like to share them.

not the first. although the second was Pat Kyrill of Moscow.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Your tradition, as wonderful as it is, is patriarchal through and through.

Yes.

That's just a fact.

Yes, it is.

Women have kept the whole church, not just your tradition, afloat from the beginning. Why not let them lead, too?

lol no.