All Israel Will Be Saved ?

[Carl Emerson]

God dwelled among them in the Ark (Ex 29:45), which was in the Most Holy Place.

The curtain separated the Most Holy Place, which could be entered only once a year by the High Priest, from the Holy Place.

Its tearing signified the opening of the way to God simply through faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrificial atonement for the remission of one's sin.

Of course, but that ignores that fact that there was also a desecration and a strong symbolic statement that the Old Covenant priesthood was thence rendered powerless.

 

[Clare73]

Of course, but that ignores that fact that there was also a desecration and a strong symbolic statement that the Old Covenant priesthood was thence rendered powerless.

I find no notion of desecration in that regard in the NT.

Hebrews gives a thorough presentation of the meaning of the tearing of the veil (Heb 10:19-20), including the tearing of the flesh of Christ.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So if someone

I find no notion of desecration in that regard in the NT.

Hebrews gives a thorough presentation of the meaning of the tearing of the veil (Heb 10:19-20), including the tearing of the flesh of Christ.

So if someone enters a church and damages sacred objects it is considered a desecration.

But if God does it, is not ???

 

[Clare73]

So if someone


So if someone enters a church and damages sacred objects it is considered a desecration.

But if God does it, is not ???

God and desecrate are a contradiction of terms, just as God and sin are a contradiction of terms.

I'm thinking you know that a holy God cannot desecrate, no matter what it is that he does.

 

[Carl Emerson]

God and desecrate are a contradiction of terms, just as God and sin are a contradiction of terms.

I'm thinking you know that a holy God cannot desecrate, no matter what it is that he does.

Do you think the spiritual authority of the Levitical Priesthood remained after the cross ?

Are you suggesting God cannot remove sanctification???

 

[bbbbbbb]

Do you think the spiritual authority of the Levitical Priesthood remained after the cross ?

Are you suggesting God cannot remove sanctification???

The evidence was quite dramatic when the veil in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The letter to the Hebrews goes into great detail about the differences between the two covenants.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The evidence was quite dramatic when the veil in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The letter to the Hebrews goes into great detail about the differences between the two covenants.

I have always thought that the curtain was not fully torn to the bottom and separated, otherwise how could they record it was torn from the top ?

Do you think the two covenants continued in parallel?

I dont.

I believe the Priesthood were decomissioned by God at the time and had no further authority to act on God's behalf.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I have always thought that the curtain was not fully torn to the bottom and separated, otherwise how could they record it was torn from the top ?

Do you think the two covenants continued in parallel?

I dont.

I believe the Priesthood were decomissioned by God at the time and had no further authority to act on God's behalf.

The pattern of the torn threads is easily observed as to the direction a textile is torn. Forensic scientists easily observe these sorts of things.

According to the writer to the Hebrews the old covenant ended when the new covenant began. I agree with him and with you.

 

[William Lefranc]

Temple Destruction, 70AD preterism in action "False" it had absolutely nothing to do with the future fulfilling of the gentiles

What is false is your lack of understanding of God's word. God's ultimate purpose was Jesus. The fact is that the church was 100% Jewish for the first ten years. After that, non-Jewish starting coming to the Lord, while Jews continuously are coming to the Lord in bits and pieces. What you believe in is false.

God's ultimate purpose was to bring a Savior in order to deal with sin and death, and reconcile the world back to Himself (2 Cor. 5:19; Heb: 1:1-3).

 

[William Lefranc]

The pattern of the torn threads is easily observed as to the direction a textile is torn. Forensic scientists easily observe these sorts of things.

According to the writer to the Hebrews the old covenant ended when the new covenant began. I agree with him and with you.

The old covenant officially ended when the temple was finally destroyed in A.D. 70 ending at last the covenant of law. Before that, both covenants overlapped with each other For about one generation. See Mat. 23:36, 24:34, Mark 13:30.

Note: The moment the new covenant was released with the blood of Jesus (Mat. 26:28), the Lord was announcing that the old was already obsolete and ready to disappear (Heb. 8:13).

 

[atpollard]

The fact is that the church was 100% Jewish for the first ten years.

Actually, according to the Gospels, that is not a true statement. The Gospels are full of accounts of Gentile believers encountering Jesus, often with greater FAITH than even the Apostles at that moment in time. Just as a start, the Centurion in Matthew 8 comes to mind.

 

[William Lefranc]

Actually, according to the Gospels, that is not a true statement. The Gospels are full of accounts of Gentile believers encountering Jesus, often with greater FAITH than even the Apostles at that moment in time. Just as a start, the Centurion in Matthew 8 comes to mind.

I suggest you read the book of Acts carefully. Between Act 2 and Acts 10 (about 10 years), every believer was Jewish. All the disciples of Yeshua were Jewish. The Spirit of God fell upon the Jews and those who came to celebrate the feast. None were Gentiles.

In chapter 10, Peter had a vision which moved him to go to the house of a Roman Gentile to preach the gospel to Gentiles. Later, when he was in Jerusalem, the leaders summoned him to report why he went to a house of Gentiles and ate with them (Acts 11:2-18).

This is the first time when Gentiles began to come to the Lord, so, originally the "church" (the congregation of Yeshua).

Today, we are all the same (Gal. 3:28-29). God is one and has one body (Eph. 4:4-6).

 

[atpollard]

I suggest you read the book of Acts carefully. Between Act 2 and Acts 10 (about 10 years), every believer was Jewish. All the disciples of Yeshua were Jewish. The Spirit of God fell upon the Jews and those who came to celebrate the feast. None were Gentiles.

So the Demoniac that worshiped Jesus after being delivered (the herd of pigs story) was NOT A CHRISTIAN.
So the Samaritan woman at the well was NOT A CHRISTIAN.
All the Gentiles that appear in all the Gospels were NOT A CHRISTIAN.

We will need to agree to disagree. (Heck, I would include RUTH from Moab among the Gentile saints).

 

[Clare73]

Do you think the spiritual authority of the Levitical Priesthood remained after the cross ?

Are you suggesting God cannot remove sanctification???

God cannot be desecration.

 

[William Lefranc]

So the Demoniac that worshiped Jesus after being delivered (the herd of pigs story) was NOT A CHRISTIAN.
So the Samaritan woman at the well was NOT A CHRISTIAN.
All the Gentiles that appear in all the Gospels were NOT A CHRISTIAN.

We will need to agree to disagree. (Heck, I would include RUTH from Moab among the Gentile saints).

No, he was delivered, but he was not a true believer yet. The new covenant congregation (the church) was born in Acts 2. The demoniac did not they have Spirit of God indwelling in him. He may have believed later and become a believer in Yeshua.

The Samaritan woman was not yet a believer. Yeshua was sent to the house of Israel first (Mat. 10:6). She and the men of Samaria believed Yeshua was the Messiah, but they were not saved, not until the gospel was preached after Acts 2.

Romans 8:9 "... he who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him."

God is a God of plan, order, and specificity.

 

[Carl Emerson]

God cannot be desecration.

Desecrate means to damage something considered Holy.

He did that to the curtain.

He did that to Dagon...

The Ark Afflicts the Philistines
1 Sam 5:3 When the people of Ashdod got up early the next morning, there was Dagon, fallen on his face before the ark of the LORD. So they took Dagon and returned him to his place. 4But when they got up early the next morning, there was Dagon, fallen on his face before the ark of the LORD, with his head and his hands broken off and lying on the threshold. Only the torso remained.

 

[Clare73]

Desecrate means to damage something considered Holy.

He did that to the curtain.

He did that to Dagon...

The Ark Afflicts the Philistines
1 Sam 5:3 When the people of Ashdod got up early the next morning, there was Dagon, fallen on his face before the ark of the LORD. So they took Dagon and returned him to his place. 4But when they got up early the next morning, there was Dagon, fallen on his face before the ark of the LORD, with his head and his hands broken off and lying on the threshold. Only the torso remained.

God does not personally desecrate his ordinances.

 

[Carl Emerson]

God does not personally desecrate his ordinances.

Jesus on the Cross Smashed the curse of the Law including direct access to the Father - The curtain was no longer sacred - He chose to provide indisputable visible proof of what He had done.

 

[RileyG]

The Church is the New Israel. Those who follow Christ will be saved only.

Rabbinical Judaism of today is very different from the Judaism of Jesus's day. There are no longer sacrifices in the temple because the temple no longer exists, Jewish priests etc.

 

[RileyG]

Jesus on the Cross Smashed the curse of the Law including direct access to the Father - The curtain was no longer sacred - He chose to provide indisputable visible proof of what He had done.

It was my understanding that ALL believers now have access to God the Father through Jesus Christ.... not that the curtain was no longer sacred. Or am I missing something?