A federal court just took a sledgehammer to parental rights

BCP1928 said:

Absolutely. Here it is again:

“I understand that is what you believe, but not everyone believes that. We don’t have to understand or support a person’s identity to treat them with respect and kindness. School is a place where we learn to work together regardless of our differences.”

I believe that to be the correct stance for the public schools on all subjects which are controversial with Christians--from evolution to gay marriage. If there was such a thing as an "LGBT agenda," that's what it would be.

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It's a sad thing that some Christians find kindness and consideration to be controversial.

Sad, but not surprising. Jesus gets thrown under the bus all the time. It's been an ongoing thing ever since Constantine decided Christianity was a tool of statecraft, and Theodosius decided that anybody that didn't agree with him... well, could just go to Hell.

Valletta said:

The implications of this ruling are dire. Montgomery County Public Schools has explicitly stated that parental rights do not extend to the classroom, even if the classroom instruction violates the religious beliefs of the family. Effectively, the teacher has replaced the parent as the child’s primary educator.

A federal court just took a sledgehammer to parental rights - Washington Examiner

The U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals issued a ruling in a case from Montgomery County, that will have broad and devastating implications for parental rights.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Christian messages.

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Home school them.

"Excuse me. Gay people could be treated with respect"

SavedByGrace3 said:

We home-schooled our kids. Our kids home-school theirs and are using private schools.
Get them out until this works its way through the courts.

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Where can one get a degree in, say, biology, from a home-college?

rambot said:

As a teacher, I have no problem with home school.
So long as the required curriculum is getting taught, I have no problem in what kind of circumstance a child learns.

I truly don't think it is intrisically BETTER, but for some students, it absolutely would be. It requires certain kind of parents to be successful. But I happen to know two TRULY outstanding homeschool moms.

If we funded students in public schools so there would be 1 teacher for 4 students, you can BET that public schools would outperform homeschoolers too.

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And yet homeschoolers do it with virtually no funding other than what they can pull together by themselves.
So, your theory does not pan out. Funding has nothing to do with it.

Pommer said:

Where can one get a degree in, say, biology, from a home-college?

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Given the current state of colleges and universities, it may come to that....

SavedByGrace3 said:

Given the current state of colleges and universities, it may come to that....

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Given that colleges are just repositories where the not-yet-ready-for-the-real-world are housed until such time as a job opens for them, ya.

SavedByGrace3 said:

And yet homeschoolers do it with virtually no funding other than what they can pull together by themselves.
So, your theory does not pan out. Funding has nothing to do with it.

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Don't be silly.

No homeschooling teachers I know get paid.
If your argument is that public schools teachers shouldn't get paid go take a float.

Everyone home school teacher I know makes use of funds from rhe government

rambot said:

Don't be silly.

No homeschooling teachers I know get paid.
If your argument is that public schools teachers shouldn't get paid go take a float.

Everyone home school teacher I know makes use of funds from rhe government

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Somehow you seemed to have missed the point completely...
Home-school parents get nothing from anyone, especially the gov.
Who said anything about public school teachers not getting paid??
The point is that homeschoolers do it without any help from anyone. More or less money has nothing to do with their success.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Somehow you seemed to have missed the point completely...
Home-school parents get nothing from anyone, especially the gov.

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Not where I live. I also know that there are plenty of home school networks.
I know there are teachers websites where hom3 schoolers also get sources.
So this "nothing from nobody, all on their own" ain't reflective of nearly everyone"

SavedByGrace3 said:

Who said anything about public school teachers not getting paid??

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when i suggested funding public schools so classrooms would have the same twacher student ratio as a home school you got defensive.

Ill bet 80% of that success is because of that ratio.

SavedByGrace3 said:

The point is that homeschoolers do it without any help from anyone. More or less money has nothing to do with their success.

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No. But it has EVERYTHING to so with the lack of success in public schools.

Hence my point above.

rambot said:

Not where I live. I also know that there are plenty of home school networks.
I know there are teachers websites where hom3 schoolers also get sources.
So this "nothing from nobody, all on their own" ain't reflective of nearly everyone"


when i suggested funding public schools so classrooms would have the same twacher student ratio as a home school you got defensive.

Ill bet 80% of that success is because of that ratio.


No. But it has EVERYTHING to so with the lack of success in public schools.

Hence my point above.

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Perhaps there is a lesson. If homeschoolers can do it with comparatively little funding, why do we think money is the deciding factor?
It is not. This is why they are failing. Public schools are broken... it has nothing to do with money.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Perhaps there is a lesson. If homeschoolers can do it with comparatively little funding, why do we think money is the deciding factor?
It is not. This is why they are failing. Public schools are broken... it has nothing to do with money.

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Home school
1 teacher 3 students.


Public school
1 teacher 28 students 30% of whom have individual plans.


Home school teachers don't get paid.

Public school teachers get paid.


Nobody argues that the act of teaching needs to be/is expensive but there are peripheral costs that can't be denied.

rambot said:

Home school
1 teacher 3 students.


Public school
1 teacher 28 students 30% of whom have individual plans.


Home school teachers don't get paid.

Public school teachers get paid.


Nobody argues that the act of teaching needs to be/is expensive but there are peripheral costs that can't be denied.

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This also doesn't take into account things like books and supplies or even the physical plant. I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of keeping a public school open is just making sure there is a safe environment to learn in. Whereas for homeschooling, the building will be paid for regardless of if schooling were to happen there or not. Are there ways to cut cost in public/private schooling? Yes. Is that enough to solve the problem? no.

I think this is a separate case, but the same school district. This has to do with how MoCo schools treat transgender students.

Supreme Court refuses to hear case from parents who objected to school’s transgender support plans in DC suburbs​

The Supreme Court on Monday declined to review an appeal from a group of parents who claimed their suburban Washington-area school district was hiding transgender support plans involving their children.

Three parents sued the Montgomery Country school district in Maryland over guidelines adopted in 2020 that allow schools to develop support plans for transgender students and “respect the students’ wishes to keep certain information confidential.”

The Supreme Court’s decision, made without explanation, left in place an appeals court ruling that the parents lacked standing to sue because they never established the plans were put in place for their children.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Perhaps there is a lesson. If homeschoolers can do it with comparatively little funding, why do we think money is the deciding factor?
It is not. This is why they are failing. Public schools are broken... it has nothing to do with money.

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They’re not doing it with “comparatively little funding.” They’re doing it with a bunch of donated resources that you’re not accounting for.

They may not be paying for the parent’s teaching, but that doesn’t mean that it costs nothing. If nothing else, there is opportunity cost, i.e. what else could that parent have been doing in that time? Working a job, for at least $30k/yr, but quite possibly a couple times that amount.

The family is also “donating” space within their home, along with the utilities to make it livable. That space and those utilities have value.

The family is likely also making greater use of public facilities like parks and libraries than a school would.

When you only have a couple kids to deal with, it’s possible to find efficiencies like this, where you can exploit existing resources for little marginal cost. But that approach doesn’t scale well: it’s fairly easy to take 1-2 kids to a library or community park, but it’s hard to take 30 of them, which is why schools build playgrounds and libraries onsite.

iluvatar5150 said:

They’re not doing it with “comparatively little funding.” They’re doing it with a bunch of donated resources that you’re not accounting for.

They may not be paying for the parent’s teaching, but that doesn’t mean that it costs nothing. If nothing else, there is opportunity cost, i.e. what else could that parent have been doing in that time? Working a job, for at least $30k/yr, but quite possibly a couple times that amount.

The family is also “donating” space within their home, along with the utilities to make it livable. That space and those utilities have value.

The family is likely also making greater use of public facilities like parks and libraries than a school would.

When you only have a couple kids to deal with, it’s possible to find efficiencies like this, where you can exploit existing resources for little marginal cost. But that approach doesn’t scale well: it’s fairly easy to take 1-2 kids to a library or community park, but it’s hard to take 30 of them, which is why schools build playgrounds and libraries onsite.

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We homeschooled four on our own with zero dollars from anyone. We bought used books from yard sales and library sales, eventually purchased a curriculum from Alpha Omega, and enrolled them in Christian Liberty Academy. In the 80s the world was not kind to homeschoolers. We were literally on our own.

SavedByGrace3 said:

We homeschooled four on our own with zero dollars from anyone. We bought used books from yard sales and library sales, eventually purchased a curriculum from Alpha Omega, and enrolled them in Christian Liberty Academy. In the 80s the world was not kind to homeschoolers. We were literally on our own.

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Good for you, but the point was that you were able to do it on your own because you were able to economize and shift costs in ways that public schools cannot.

SavedByGrace3 said:

We homeschooled four on our own with zero dollars from anyone. We bought used books from yard sales and library sales, eventually purchased a curriculum from Alpha Omega, and enrolled them in Christian Liberty Academy. In the 80s the world was not kind to homeschoolers. We were literally on our own.

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I think you missed my point.

The original argument was that “funding has nothing to do with [success],” with the example being homeschoolers doing education with very little money.

My point was that your accounting is wrong.

1.) You’re failing to account for costs that are less obvious (e.g. opportunity cost of leaving the labor force)

2.) You’re failing to account for utilization of public services that subsidize your expenses (e.g. parks and libraries)

3.) Even where you’re legitimately spending less, you’re doing so in ways that don’t scale well. (e.g. used books from yard sales)

Is it possible for a parent to homeschool their child for less money out of pocket than it would cost to educate them in a traditional school? Absolutely. I’d be surprised if that weren’t the case. But that’s not a valid comparison because of the reasons I mentioned: “out of pocket” expenses don’t encompass the entire cost of homeschooling, and their are certain inefficiencies or opportunities that can be exploited to service a few children that cannot grow to meet the needs of many children (e.g. the availability of used schoolbooks).

If you were to account for the opportunity cost of the teaching parent’s lost wages, your per-child educational expenses would jump significantly, to the point where you could easily surpass what public schools spend.

Valletta said:

The implications of this ruling are dire. Montgomery County Public Schools has explicitly stated that parental rights do not extend to the classroom, even if the classroom instruction violates the religious beliefs of the family. Effectively, the teacher has replaced the parent as the child’s primary educator.

A federal court just took a sledgehammer to parental rights - Washington Examiner

The U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals issued a ruling in a case from Montgomery County, that will have broad and devastating implications for parental rights.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Christian messages.

Click to expand...

We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Islam messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Judaism messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Buddhism messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Shintoism messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Free Mason messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Satanism messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Zoroastrian messages.
We need vouchers for children so that they are not forced to attend classes with anti-Hinduism messages.

Equal rights. It's a hard thing.

Pommer said:

Where can one get a degree in, say, biology, from a home-college?

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I want a home-schooled surgeon. With a degree from home, with dissection lessons performed at home.