New Posts

2PhiloVoid · 2025-07-06T21:04:55-0500

HBP said:
I just realized how extremely narrow these forums are. The Forum Rules define those who are "truly" Christians as those who fully accept the Nicene Creed. I just happened to be reading a book by Marcus Borg in which he distinguishes between "popular" Christianity and "academic" Christianity. Academic Christianity includes many NT scholars who identify as Christian, including Borg, but are almost unanimous in their judgment that popular Christianity simply isn't true, period. None of them would be able to post here as Christians. The academic perspective, like it or not, is simply that Jesus was not, and did not think he was, who and what the Nicene Creed and popular Christianity posit him to have been.

As mentioned elsewhere, I entered Christianity via a startling, "mystical" conversion experience some 55 years ago; attended a Baptist seminary; served with Campus Crusade for Christ; and have been neck-deep in theology and apologetics for decades. Do I fully accept the Nicene Creed, the "full eternal deity" of Jesus Christ, and Paul's status as a full Apostle, equivalent to or greater than the Apostles who actually walked with Jesus? Well, no I don't, at least not in the sense the Forum Rules and Statement of Faith are talking about. Probably like Marcus Borg, however, I think of myself as a "mature" Christian but certainly not "not a Christian." Here, alas, I am apparently not a true Christian.

I guess I shouldn't even be posting on the Controversial Christian Theology forum since I discovered to my surprise that it, too, is restricted to Christians as so defined and that discussions "may not contradict the Nicene Creed." Again, the majority of the very best NT scholars would be unable to post here.

To be clear, I have no "problem" with the Nicene Creed, the CF Forum Rules of the CF Statement of Faith. A forum can obviously operate however it wants. Those who can accept the Nicene Creed as their definition of Christianity are welcome to do so with my blessing. But it certainly isn't the only understanding of Christianity or what Jesus was all about. Since a forum is not a denomination or church, I'm not sure what is gained by such a restrictive definition of "true Christian" or by so narrowly restricting discussions. Is the idea to "protect" true Christians against challenging views, even those of the most renowned NT scholars? If so, doesn't that seem kind of odd and even cult-like?

Having been here long enough to have participated on a number of threads, it certainly appears to me that a fair number of folks are paying lip service to the Nicene Creed and other forum requirements of being a "true Christian" while the substance of their posts says otherwise. I'm not comfortable playing that game, nor with constantly wondering whether something I have said has crossed the line. So, I will accept being a non-Christian for purposes of these forums, strange as this may seem to me, and limit myself to discussing recipes for guacamole at The Kitchen Sink.

Oh, stop your whining! Some of us have actually learned to duck and cover. It's just a part of communicating with other human beings, even those who claim one of two dozen forms of Trinitarian Christianity.

MotoToTheMax · 2025-07-06T21:04:31-0500

civilwarbuff said:
Are you acknowledging the fact of spiritual warfare? That might be a first......

Uhhh no? Do you not know how quotations work?

essentialsaltes · 2025-07-06T21:04:13-0500

Landon Caeli said:
TikTok should be banned for allowing garbage

Garbage is free speech.

Guojing · 2025-07-06T20:58:22-0500

Dan Perez said:
and you have a verse ??

dan p

There is a significant group of Christians who either believe in:

the necessity of water baptism to get saved, or

the necessity immediately after you are saved, otherwise you may not be saved since you are disobeying a direct commandment from the risen Lord, which to me amounts to pretty much the same as the first belief.

Verses like Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 feature heavily in both beliefs.

The dispensationalist view towards water baptism is clear: Jesus was on Earth to fulfill the promise of a kingdom to the Jews, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:17).

Under that Kingdom, all Jews are supposed to accept Jesus as their King, and then be priests that will spread the message of the King to every nation.

This was prophesied in many OT prophets, some examples would be

Zechariah 8 explains

3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’

Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)

20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2

In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

Under the gospel of the kingdom preached to Israel only, water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Israel as a nation was supposed to accept Jesus as their Messiah and be ushered into their promised kingdom where Jesus will rule over them from David's throne in Jerusalem.

Then Israel will become a kingdom of priest, in order to be a priest, every Jew MUST be baptized (Exodus 19:4-6)

Fervent · 2025-07-06T20:58:12-0500

Is this like Nietzsche's will to power?

NxNW · 2025-07-06T20:54:39-0500

A New Dawn said:
The problem wasn’t the law, so it couldn’t have been the GOP.

If not for that law, there wouldn't have been a problem.

A New Dawn said:
The problem was the abortion-rights activists who were pushing the lie that treating an emergency medical procedure was the same thing as an elective abortion.

Doctors' decisions were not affected by abortion rights activists who do not work for the hospital and do not supervise them. This is a Republican lie.

A New Dawn said:
The word “elective” is important in the discussion.

Republican laws force doctors to wait until an ectopic pregnancy becomes a medical emergency.

Valletta · 2025-07-06T20:44:04-0500

Hans Blaster said:
where is the ruling on that? (And you can just not post the "findings" of Trump's cabinet of lackeys.)

Perhaps you missed the ruling it was widely reported at the time:

Supreme Court outlaws affirmative action in college admissions in landmark decision

The Supreme Court struck down affirmative action programs at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina Thursday, ruling that both institutions were in violation of the Fourteenth Amen…

nypost.com

And I also think it will be fruitful to go back before the Supreme Court ruling and see how Harvard could be expected to still discriminate no matter what the Supreme Court decision:

The Secret Joke at the Heart of the Harvard Affirmative-Action Case

A federal official wrote a parody of Harvard’s attitude toward Asian Americans and shared it with the dean of admissions. Why did a judge try to hide that from the public?

www.newyorker.com

fhansen · 2025-07-06T20:39:23-0500

Clare73 said:
In the OT God reckons belief in the promise of seed as saving belief in the Seed, the Messiah.

Abraham took God at His word; Abraham believed the promise; he did not know Christ, the Messiah, let alone have a "saving belief" in Him according to that knowledge.

Clare73 said:
Au contriare. . .

Ro 5:14 - Sinful Adam causing death to reign over those who did not commit transgression (i.e., break a specific command with death penalty attached) was a pattern of the sinless CHRIST. . .esplane me dat!

In verse 12 Paul tells us that all sin. Look around yourself: is that correct, or NOT?? In 13 he tells us that sin isn’t charged against anyone where there is no law. So verse 14 only means that all sin, even though they had no command to break.

You insist that no real righteousness is given to believers, but only an imputed/declared righteousness. So this is where you get it wrong:

Clare73 said:
Ro 5:19 - JUST AS through the disobedience (sin) of the one man, the many were made sinners (guilty of Adam's sin by imputation),
SO ALSO through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous--(acquitted by imputation of Christ's righteousness)
(The parallels couldn't be any more clear.)

Paul is adamant about the fact that through Adam all became sinners, not merely declared to be sinners but became sinners. Therefore, to follow that pattern, through Christ they must become righteous. (The parallels couldn't be any more clear.)

Semper-Fi · 2025-07-06T20:29:02-0500

johansen said:
Given the huge amount of neanderthal bones found in Israel it really makes me wonder if the giants of old.. are neanderthals and densovans.

I like the way God defines species.

"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle
after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth
after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Species I think should be if they can reproduce "after their kind".
Science found Humans and Neanderthals can breed together.

N.H.M. has Neanderthal name meaning "human from the Neander Vally"

Genesis 6:4 talks about “giants” in the land before the flood.

Gen 6:4 There were giantsH5303

H5303
נְפִל נְפִיל
nephı̂yl nephil
nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully
or tyrant: - giant. Total KJV occurrences: 3

Giants is translated from two original Hebrew words:
Rephaim and Nephilim. Nephilim, which means “a feller,”
or one who fells a tree because of his unusual strength.

The term implies a “tough,” or a bully, an individual of
great physical might. The pre-Flood Nephilim were giants
in strength but not in tallness of stature.

The description of the Nephilim of pre-Flood matches with
the large-boned, exceptionally muscled Neanderthals.

Neanderthals and humans interbred and produced offspring that
interbred—and regularly. Promiscuous early humans interbred
'multiple times' in 'world of debauchery'

Promiscuous early humans interbred 'multiple times' in 'world of debauchery'

Researches initially thought interbreeding between Neanderthals and other primitive cousins was rare - but have now discovered they lived in a 'world of debauchery'

www.mirror.co.uk

There were at least three different human forms on Earth,
all having sex with each other.

The Rephaim are mentioned only after the Flood; they
were tall men, like Anakim (Deuteronomy 2:11, 20).

Deu 2:11 Which also were accounted giants,H7497
as the Anakims;H6062

H7497
רָפָה רָפָא
râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant,
Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051. Total KJV occurrences: 21

H6062
עֲנָקִי
‛ănâqı̂y
an-aw-kee'
Patronymic from H6061; an Anakite or descendant of Anak:
- Anakim. Total KJV occurrences: 9
-

The Bible talks about a great leader named Tubalcain. He was
the first to work with metal and develop instruments of war (Genesis 4:22).
And in those days violence filled the Earth (Genesis 6:11, 13).

The Neanderthals were no match for the swords, spears and
arrows of Tubalcain’s armies. eventually the violence and
degradation became so intense that God decided to destroy
all humans except Noah and others, in a worldwide Flood.

The Barbarian · 2025-07-06T20:21:38-0500

civilwarbuff said:
You didn't answer the question

You didn't like the answer you got. (no surprise there)

Guojing · 2025-07-06T20:04:13-0500

Marilyn C said:
I am certainly NOT Abraham`s seed. He never produced me nor even spiritually. It is only the Lord who can produce spiritual children. The meaning of that phrase is muddled in English. Taking in all of scripture about that topic we realize that it means `of Abraham`s seed - CHRIST.

If you want to think you are of Abraham, obviously you can, but I`m not going to believe that.

Rom. 9: 6 - 8 `In Isaac your seed shall be called.` So do you come from Isaac?

The way to reconcile this misleading teaching about Romans 9:6-8 is to recognize that, to be true Israel, you need to have 3 fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Paul is not talking about us gentiles in that passage.

Romans 9 began with an address to the Jewish brethern of Paul.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The non-believing Israel were boasting in their physical circumcision, because all who descended from the nation were circumcised since 8 days old, they believe that alone qualified as being the true Israel in God's eyes.

Paul thus reminded Israel there that Abraham had 2 sons, one born of the flesh, which is Ishmael, whom God rejected as the child of promise. Only Isaac was considered that child of promise.

Thus, he is saying that, as you said "This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring".

BOTH Isaac and Ishmael were Abraham's children and BOTH were physically circumcised but only Isaac was the child of promise.

Thus being a child of Abraham AND having being physical circumcised does not guarantee a Jew to be God's offspring, true Israel in this case.

Many Christians misinterpret Romans 9:6-8 to infer that we gentile Christians in the Body of Christ, just because thru Christ, we are justified by faith like Abraham was, thus can consider Abraham also to be our "father of faith", can now qualify to be true Israel.

ARBITER01 · 2025-07-06T20:02:13-0500

Xeno.of.athens said:
What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

- It's intended audience was believing Jews.

- Not really. The truth contained within it is just as useful as the other epistles.

Xeno.of.athens said:
God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

How about this,...

IN many parts and many ways of old, GOD spoke unto the forefathers by the Prophets,

2 But in the last of these days, speaketh now unto us by a Son,

3 Whom HE appointeth heir of all things, through Whom also HE maketh the worlds,

4 Who, being the brightness of HIS glory and the express image of HIS being, and upholding all things by the word of HIS power,

5 After making a cleansing of our sins through Himself, is seated at the right hand of The MAJESTY on high,

6 Becoming so much better than the angels, inasmuch as He hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

The us is born from above believers.

Lady Bug · 2025-07-06T19:56:08-0500

I haven't really decided if I should stay at my local parish or retain membership at the Diocesan Cathedral (I don't know anyone at the local parish except the RCIA director, sort of) but I'll probably do the latter even if I sometimes attend the former. Anyway, a new priest got assigned at the local parish and I'm so impressed with his homily for this Sunday. He's down to earth but he's so on fire for God and so motivating that I could not help but feel profoundly moved. I think I really like this one. I was saddened by the departure of the most recent Parochial Vicar but this new Parochial Vicar seems great. I don't know how welcoming he is on an individual level, yet. I know that PVs don't stay that long. The regular priests in our Diocese tend to stay at a parish, once they've been assigned, unless they're young, lol. (That's what it seems to me)

ARBITER01 · 2025-07-06T19:53:15-0500

Xeno.of.athens said:
If you have faith and it is alone what is the use of it?

I have the faith of The Son of GOD, but I'm not sure how it would be alone.

Joseph G · 2025-07-06T19:49:15-0500

Looks like I'll be wiping the dust from my feet and moving on soon.

Anybody interested in staying in contact, believer or genuine seeker, my email is joegunlock@gmail com.

There is power in the Name of Jesus to save, keep proclaiming His Name - everywhere without fear!

God bless and always praying for all here. Please pray for me.

Joseph
biblegateway.com

Valletta · 2025-07-06T19:46:33-0500

JulieB67 said:
Why does the church described in Acts not line up with the Catholic Church of today? It's pretty apparent that they followed the "apostles" doctrine" and it was God that added to the church "daily", not man. It's up to him regarding who is a member of the church or not. It can take some people years to become a member of the Catholic Church. That's a huge red flag. It might have started out with good intentions but it is so far removed from the church that was started by the disciples/apostles.

"Today if you will hear his voice..."

The "source and summit" of our faith is very much the same as it was in the first century, we follow the command of Jesus to "do this" in remembrance of Him. As to "membership" in the Catholic Church there is no one definition, believing what Jesus and the Apostles taught is really the key, so someone who is converting and intending to receive the sacraments could be considered a member of the Catholic Church.

pasifika · 2025-07-06T19:46:25-0500

BobRyan said:
The Creation Sabbath of Gen 2 is being used as a symbol of New Canaan - heaven, heavenly Canaan -- just as in Gal 4 Jersualem above "is our mother".

Gal 4
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

We still have mothers - even though this symbolism is used in Gal 4.

Heb 4 is using something that still remains - the Sabbath, and adding it as a symbol for saints waiting for heaven/eternal rest.

yes the "sabbath rest" still remains. But the "day" you enter into has changed as per Hebrews 3&4. not 7th day but a day called "today".

this i believe is a "spiritual day" as it's not belongs to any particular day of the the 7day week.

That day only comes for each and everyone is when we "Believe" the Gospel message as in Hebrews 4:3..we who have "Believed" enter that "Rest".

so is not a 24hr day of rest as in creation day but a continuous and permanent Rest once we "Believe".

Joseph G · 2025-07-06T19:45:46-0500

Looks like I'll be wiping the dust from my feet and moving on soon.

Anybody interested in staying in contact, believer or genuine seeker, my email is joegunlock@gmail com.

There is power in the Name of Jesus to save, keep proclaiming His Name - everywhere without fear!

God bless and always praying for all here.

Joseph
biblegateway.com

The Barbarian · 2025-07-06T19:41:29-0500

Joseph G said:
Nope. Not interested in science fiction, thanks.

I don't think "they are all lying!" is going to be a very effective defense for you.

civilwarbuff · 2025-07-06T19:41:14-0500

Fantine said:
They asked honest questions and he gave honest answers.

You haven't kept up with the news then, have you?

Jake Tapper admits he didn't cover Biden's cognitive decline enough, claims to 'look back on it with humility'

CNN's Jake Tapper admitted criticism of his past coverage of Joe Biden is "fair" and that he didn't do enough to cover the former president's cognitive decline in office.

www.foxnews.com

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/5326429-media-coverage-biden-cognitive-issues/

Shielding Biden: Journalists shed light on the media's cover-up of a weakened president

A look back at the extensive years-long effort by the legacy media to protect Joe Biden from scrutiny between his family's business dealings to his cognitive decline.

www.foxnews.com

White House reporter admits ‘we bear some responsibility’ for Biden cover-up

Axios national political correspondent Alex Thompson called out those present at the White House Correspondents Dinner for their coverage of then-President Joe Biden’s mental and physical dec…

www.baltimoresun.com

Start paying attention......

Michie · 2025-07-06T19:34:16-0500

This year marks 500th anniversary of movement's founding

2025 is a year of anniversaries. From the 1700th anniversary of the Nicene Creed to the 80th anniversary of VE Day, there are many milestones to reflect on. Another one is the 500th anniversary of the founding of the Anabaptist movement — a chapter in Christian history that is not so well known.

Who were the Anabaptists?

The Anabaptists were radical reformers who emerged during the Protestant Reformation. Unlike other reformers who sought to revise the existing church structures, Anabaptists envisioned an entirely new kind of Christian community — one rooted not in state power or tradition, but purely in the radical teachings of Jesus.

Continued below.

Who were the Anabaptists?

This year marks the 500th anniversary of the founding of the Anabaptist movement a chapter in Christian history that is not so well known

www.christianpost.com

Fervent · 2025-07-06T19:27:50-0500

Jeff Saunders said:
Is not the connotative meaning just someone’s opinion on what they or a group thinks something means in the a particular context, but it’s still someone’s opinion and they have an agenda that they are trying to prove. A dictionary is just the agreement of what words mean at the time.

Technically speaking, both connotative meaning and denotative meaning are people's opinions of common usage. But neither are purely opinion based, but have to do with how the word is used and in the kinds of contexts its commonly found in. Words, in and of themselves, don't have a meaning as if anywhere a word is found the same concept is in play. Thinking as much is an exegetical fallacy known as the word-concept fallacy. Instead, the meaning of words depends partly on their common usage but more directly on the context in which they are found. Meaning primarily rests much higher than the word level, somewhere between the sentence level and the paragraph level. So dictionaries are of extremely limited value because they say nothing of what kinds of contexts the words are typically found in to shed light on various connotations that exist for the word.

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-07-06T19:24:05-0500

RileyG said:
As Christians, I know we are not supposed to feel "empty."

I have heard others warn that if the mind is "empty" the devil can come in. St John of the Cross says just the opposite, that if we empty ourselves the devil has nothing to work with. Of course the mind cannot be "empty" unless we are unconscious. But we can have a quiet, still attentiveness.

Psalm 62 My soul waits in silence for God alone;

That is how I best describe my practice once my mind has settled down.

New Posts

New Posts

Filter

Forum statistics

Share this page