Yogic breathing

[christian-surfer]

This is an interesting video. An x Buddhist says how yogic breathing is satanic etc. I guess I could see where it might be but on the other hand, certain breathing exercises can lower your blood pressure or oxygenate the body. This can be useful at night because blood pressure can rise at night and deep forceful breathing in bed can help you fall asleep sometimes. I find it interesting that some Buddhist monks can control their body temperature when it’s very cold out without wearing much clothes. Some yogis can control their heart rate. Isn’t this interesting from a scientific angle ? Is there a more nuanced view that could be taken about such things?

The guy in the video also talks about how martial arts promote anger. I think about some Christians who might take such views and yet promote wars based on propaganda or misinformation when they don’t understand what is going on. I’m afraid that it seems like almost the same type of thing that they claim to be against in that case

 

[public hermit]

This is an interesting video. An x Buddhist says how yogic breathing is satanic etc. I guess I could see where it might be but on the other hand, certain breathing exercises can lower your blood pressure or oxygenate the body. This can be useful at night because blood pressure can rise at night and deep forceful breathing in bed can help you fall asleep sometimes. I find it interesting that some Buddhist monks can control their body temperature when it’s very cold out without wearing much clothes. Some yogis can control their heart rate. Isn’t this interesting from a scientific angle ? Is there a more nuanced view that could be taken about such things?

The guy in the video also talks about how martial arts promote anger. I think about some Christians who might take such views and yet promote wars based on propaganda or misinformation when they don’t understand what is going on. I’m afraid that it seems like almost the same type of thing that they claim to be against in that case

I agree, what does one really understand looking in from the outside? The rando in that super-long video has his experience from the inside, he says. I don't know.

In general, I think it's best to keep our religious critiques in-house, and even that is a losing prospect. Religious dogmas are too uncertain to be pitted against each other. Faith is truly a matter of faith. Likewise, spiritual experiences are too subjective to be pitted against each other. There's something silly about a Christian critiquing Buddhism and vice-versa, as if one is obvious and the other not. Are Christian mystics having the same experience as Sufi mystics? There's no way to adjudicate.

There's a good book (a little old probably), Mysticism and Philosophical Analysis (Ed. Steven Katz) that gives a pretty good look at comparing spiritual experiences. One still walks away with opinion because it's all so murky and uncertain. It's best if everyone enjoys their own sandbox and lets others enjoy theirs.

 

[Nithavela]

Those buddhists and their satanistic *checks note* deep breathing.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The number of ex-(Fill in the Blank) who ascribe their former religious tradition as "satanic" is pretty large. Ranging from ex-Pagans to ex-Catholics. That makes it a bit difficult to take those claims seriously.

This becomes doubly so when there has been a history of con-artists who use their past (or alleged past in many cases) as a way to attain personal wealth.

If the general principle is anything outside of Christianity is emphatically satanic, that probably would need to be better defined. Is the meaning simply that Christianity, in confessing itself to be the only true religion by definition regards all other religious traditions to be false, and thus there is a level of spiritual delusion which all people suffer from and the devil takes advantage of that? Or is this a more specific kind of claim.

Generally I would regard "satanic" to mean something far more deliberately diabolical, in a literal sense, than mere error or false belief. For example, belief in a flat earth is wrong, but I wouldn't call it satanic; even if such a belief is attached to a religious structure. I wouldn't consider it satanic when Muslims say the shahada, or other religious practices associated with other religions.

The charge of satanic seems, at best, very extreme in such a context.

Though, also, as a general rule I don't engage in anti-religious polemics toward other religions. I don't know that such polemics are ever particularly beneficial in reaching those outside the Church with the Gospel proclamation. I think, usually, they serve as scare tactics for those already in the Church, or worse as ways of demeaning those outside of the Church and create a sense of religious pride and exclusivity, i.e. "We're the good guys, let's all high five one another". I believe in an evangelism of compassion and proclamation, as the Lutheran Confessions which I confess put it, there are two efficacious causes of faith which God uses, the Holy Spirit and His word. When the Gospel is preached the Holy Spirit causes the word to go forth and into people, and there create faith. I find it, therefore, less useful to tell people "You're wrong, your religion is evil, and now let me explain why my religion is superior" and more useful to simply express what I consider the truth of my religion, seeking to employ St. Peter's guidance of "Give answer to the hope that is in you to all who inquire, doing so with kindness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tturt]

"Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices." (II Cor 2:11)

Might want to check out one of Mike Signorelli's episode with former astrologer who came to Christ. I don't know about him/his ministry but this episode was informative & insightful

 

[bèlla]

What percentage of Christians engage in the practices described to warrant the video? From my experience it's fairly small and I'm familiar with both. As others noted this can backfire if the person relies on thirdhand information which could be debunked by practitioners. I recall a spiritual warfare course at church that derived its concepts on paganism by those methods and many of his statements were wrong. The women at my table were aware and corrections followed.

~bella

 

[JustaPewFiller]

Hmmm... well there are a number of regarded medical sources that recommend deep breathing exercises for calming / stress relief etc.

Such as..

NHS - > Breathing exercises for stress

WebMD -> Breathing Techniques for Stress Relief

Harvard Med School -> Relaxation techniques: Breath control helps quell errant stress response - Harvard Health

So, I kind of doubt the breathing technique itself is "satanic". Maybe the issue is the Buddhism?

As for martial arts and anger. I suppose it depends on the art and the instructor. I have some experience in martial arts. To use references from the "Karate Kid", I can assure that there are great teachers like Mr. Miyagi out there and there are also bad teachers like John Kreese out there as well as a multitude that fall in between those extremes.

I would say, if your art and instructor are good, then no, the martial arts do not produce anger. My teacher always taught that the best fight is the one you avoid.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't see how yogic breathing (the technical term is pranayama) could be construed as Satanic. That kind of statement is irrational, and just amounts to casting aspersions or poisoning the well.

Specific breathing techniques aren't even all that important in Buddhism. Pranayama is more elaborately detailed within Hinduism.

 

[dlamberth]

I fully understand that most in this forum do not chant. But for those who do chant the name of God, breath does becomes more important for those folks.

 

[public hermit]

I fully understand that most in this forum do not chant. But for those who do chant the name of God, breath does becomes more important for those folks.

For example, coming from the Orthodox tradition, hesychasts will give attention to their breathing as they pray (continuously) the Jesus Prayer. As Kallistos Ware puts it, it is a "psychosomatic technique in combination with the Jesus Prayer"

Hesychasm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dlamberth]

For example, coming from the Orthodox tradition, hesychasts will give attention to their breathing as they pray (continuously) the Jesus Prayer. As Kallistos Ware puts it, it is a "psychosomatic technique in combination with the Jesus Prayer"

Hesychasm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Way of a Pilgrim" touched some on breath. I'm now guessing that is the "psychosomatic technique" that Kallistos Ware is talking about. I'll have to look it up. For a while I was practicing the Jesus Prayer and it would be nice to get the breath into better shape while chanting it. Thanks for the info.

 

[public hermit]

"The Way of a Pilgrim" touched some on breath. I'm now guessing that is the "psychosomatic technique" that Kallistos Ware is talking about. I'll have to look it up. For a while I was practicing the Jesus Prayer and it would be nice to get the breath into better shape while chanting it. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I love "The Way of a Pilgrim." I also have the first four copies of The Philokalia, which have been very helpful in a similar regard. It's one of those things that you can try for yourself to see if it works, and in my experience, it does.

To keep it in the spirit of the thread, the hesychast's practice is not all that different than Pure Land Buddhism in its emphasis on breath and repeating the name (understood differently, of course, respectively).

 

[dlamberth]

Yeah, I love "The Way of a Pilgrim." I also have the first four copies of The Philokalia, which have been very helpful in a similar regard. It's one of those things that you can try for yourself to see if it works, and in my experience, it does.

To keep it in the spirit of the thread, the hesychast's practice is not all that different than Pure Land Buddhism in its emphasis on breath and repeating the name (understood differently, of course, respectively).

I have the first two copies of The Philokalia on my bookshelf. I have to admit that I've not read a word of it though.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yeah, I love "The Way of a Pilgrim." I also have the first four copies of The Philokalia, which have been very helpful in a similar regard. It's one of those things that you can try for yourself to see if it works, and in my experience, it does.

To keep it in the spirit of the thread, the hesychast's practice is not all that different than Pure Land Buddhism in its emphasis on breath and repeating the name (understood differently, of course, respectively).

To my knowledge, there is no special breathing technique involved in Pure Land Buddhism (which, just like Christianity, has different interpretations and practices... some resemble Reformed Protestantism to a surprising degree, and do not emphasize religious practices functioning in an instrumental manner).

Some eastern monks do use breathing techniques with the Jesus Prayer but it's far from universal.

Some pranayama or breathwork techniques have empirically verified effects. For instance, altering the rate of inhalation or exhalation has effects of the sympathetic-parasympathetic nervous system balance. This can be useful for reducing anxiety or enhancing athletic recovery.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What percentage of Christians engage in the practices described to warrant the video? From my experience it's fairly small and I'm familiar with both. As others noted this can backfire if the person relies on thirdhand information which could be debunked by practitioners. I recall a spiritual warfare course at church that derived its concepts on paganism by those methods and many of his statements were wrong. The women at my table were aware and corrections followed.

~bella

There seems to be a cottage industry surrounding things like this. Charlatans have been trying to fleece the flock with all kinds of nonsense for decades. So-called "experts" on the occult, or Satanism, or witchcraft, or any number of things have been making all manner of claims for a very long time. From fearmongering about Dungeons & Dragons or Halloween, to panics about Harry Potter, to claims that practicing yoga (as a physical exercise) "invites demons". I've seen people claim that Christians need to not only stop listening to "secular music", but actually destroy all their records/tapes/cds (back when physical media was more common); because of claims that simply owning a cd was an "invitation" for demons. The church that my elementary school was attached to (my family was never part of the church, it's just where they sent me to school) believed that it was sinful to go to the cinema because if you watched any movie in a movie theater you watched "all of them", they also taught that "Christian rock" was just as evil as "secular rock" because as they put it "the African percussion rhythms attracted demons".

When I was younger I read a book by a guy named Texe Marrs, in it he was able to find a Satanic conspiracy in just about anything. All the Saturday morning cartoons I watched in the 80's and early 90's? Satanic. Everything was Satanic, everything was part of some Satanic New Age New World Order conspiracy.

People are making money on this.
People are making a lot of money on this.
And the Faithful are being made gullible, naive, and duped into living a state of perpetual fear and ignorance by this nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lukaris]

There is a meditative, prayer, breathing technique tradition in Orthodox Christianity. Aside from some of it’s resources, I know nothing about it. Where and who to consult with on it is probably difficult. Perhaps in small doses it might be helpful.

Systema Class Outline — St Basil Orthodox Church

www.wilmingtonoca.org

There seems to be sound Biblical ability to cautiously apply some of this. See Deuteronomy 6:4-9, Matthew 22:36-40, Exodus 20:1-17 (10 commandments), Matthew 19:16-19, Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Matthew 9:36-38, Psalm 63:6, Psalm 119:15, Proverbs 7:2, John 1:1-5, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 4:10, 1 Timothy 4:15, Matthew 6:9-13 etc.

 

[bèlla]

From fearmongering about Dungeons & Dragons or Halloween, to panics about Harry Potter, to claims that practicing yoga (as a physical exercise) "invites demons".

Most Christians aren't conversant in other teachings. The claims aren't wholly off-base. They're not filling in the blanks and breaking down the material. They just say it's demonic. They'd have to teach the symbolism but that's not allowed. You're supposed to believe that Harry Potter is entertainment not a story about alchemy that's entertaining.

Nothing makes it into this country haphazardly. If you want to move people away from christianity you have to give them something less offensive. I remember when people weren't doing yoga or referencing the culture at all. Small pockets were into transcendentalism. But Deepak Chopra brought it to the mainstream and spirituality emerged.

Most believers aren't instructed on worshiping with the body or what it entails. That's what they're pointing to about yoga. But they can't tell you that because they didn't tell you the other. Most of these things are esoteric. But that's the domain of the few. It was never meant for the populace. They get exoteric teachings.

I've seen people claim that Christians need to not only stop listening to "secular music", but actually destroy all their records/tapes/cds (back when physical media was more common); because of claims that simply owning a cd was an "invitation" for demons.

There is a correlation between music and the soul. You put on a song and it evokes certain thoughts, feelings or behaviors. But I can't tell you why. I may incur the wrath of music executives because I'm hampering their profits. And you'd have to be educated in spiritual warfare beyond the things written in books. It's a domino effect. When you open one can of worms it forces you to deal with others. Invitations for demons is easier and obscure. It goes over most people's heads and nothing changes.

Everything was Satanic, everything was part of some Satanic New Age New World Order conspiracy.

He's the god of this world. I'd expect his influence in most places. The majority broach the spiritual through one or two lenses: Intellectual, Ascetic, Devotional and Servant. It isn't either or. We're meant to apply all four and other methods too as the list exemplifies. When you compartmentalize your faith you remain on the outside. You don't enter the inner circle because the current is blocked. But when you let it flow (aka enter flow) you'll notice the difference.

I'm not denying the sensationalism or duplicity. But there's more than meets the eye.

~bella

 

[FireDragon76]

Hatha yoga is just a practice of physical exercises, and actually has its origins just as much in modern British physical culture as it does in ancient sutras by Patanjali. It only has spiritual connotations if a person ascribes those to them.

 

[FireDragon76]

There is a correlation between music and the soul.

This is just nonsense. It's magical thinking. Is the problem with the New Age really about principled differences in beliefs, or is it actually just peddling in a different brand of woo?

 

[bèlla]

This is just nonsense. It's magical thinking. Is the problem with the New Age really about principled differences in beliefs, or is it actually just peddling in a different brand of woo?

I never mentioned the New Age or magical thinking.

If you say evil exists you can't define what it entails or how it operates. That isn't man's dominion. It's satan's. You don't get to tell him how to do his job or what he should influence or not.

He's outsmarted man many times over because he thinks he knows it all and he doesn't. Just because you wouldn't infect music for the listener's detriment doesn't mean he wouldn't. He doesn't think like you or reason like you either.

He's not like us and I get that. I don't say what's impossible unless I can back it up with scripture. Just because I couldn't imagine it or wouldn't do the same doesn't mean he shares that opinion. The bible showed you he's cunning and that isn't overt. It's the thing you didn't expect. If you feel otherwise that's okay.

~bella