Worldly Churches: A Checklist

[AlexB23]

Hello folks. How can we discern if a church is worldly (idolizes the world) or spiritual? Have any of you encountered a "worldly" church? What were some warning signs or red flags that helped you decide to leave a church?


Here is a 10-part checklist to help aid us on our church journeys.

1. Lack of emphasis on prayer and the study of scripture. If a church does not prioritize these spiritual disciplines, it may indicate a drift toward worldliness.

2. Emphasis on entertainment or popularity rather than holiness and worship. A church that focuses more on providing an entertaining experience than cultivating a holy and reverent atmosphere may be becoming too worldly.

3. Compromise on biblical truth for the sake of inclusivity or cultural relevance. Churches should strive to be welcoming and relevant, but not at the expense of abandoning core Christian beliefs.

4. Materialism or wealth-focused messages. A church that places undue emphasis on material possessions, financial success, or prosperity may be drifting into worldliness.

5. Toleration of sinful behavior among members. A truly biblical church will uphold God's standards for morality and sexual purity, and will lovingly confront and correct any member who persists in sin.

6. Lack of accountability or transparency from leadership. Church leaders should be above reproach and subject to oversight by other mature Christians. Any hint of secrecy or deceit could suggest worldliness.

7. Focus on self-help or personal fulfillment rather than discipleship and obedience to Christ. While personal growth is important, it must always take a back seat to following Jesus and obeying His commands.

8. Worldly associations or partnerships. A church that allies itself with unbelievers or secular organizations without careful discernment may be compromising its witness for the gospel.

9. Watered-down preaching or teaching. Messages that avoid controversy or challenge listeners to repentance may be catering to worldly sensibilities instead of proclaiming the full counsel of God.

10. Absence of true community or fellowship. A church that emphasizes individualism over unity and interdependence may be reflecting a broader trend toward worldliness in society as a whole.

Verse about worldly churches: A Warning from 2 Timothy 4:3 - The Gospel is not a Cafeteria
Another verse about worldly churches: Rebuke The Worldly Churches (1 Timothy 5:20)

 

[RandyPNW]

Though these things may be relevant, I personally wish to avoid "church-hopping," as if going to church is like shopping for the best deal. Churches are at different stages of maturity, in different environments, requiring different ministries, etc. etc. The idea is for Christians in an area to gather together to build one another up in Christ, and to carry out the mission of reaching the world with the Gospel message.

That being said, there are two diametrically opposite kinds of churches that should be distinguished between. Liberal churches do not preach the true Gospel, and are overly-tolerant of sin. Instead of emphasizing a new life in Christ, the emphasis is on forgiveness without necessitating any spiritual change. Liberal churches, which deemphasize moral standards and standard orthodoxy, or dead churches, who are purely perfunctory and liturgical in their services, are not demonstrating or proclaiming the Gospel.

Some churches have historical and traditional backgrounds with a solid orthodoxy and evangelical emphasis, and yet have dried up spiritually. These are to be avoided. Liturgy and form in worship is not a bad thing, but if it replaces spontaneity and common communication, it displaces substance with mechanics.

Other than these things, the state of the church can be worked with. You go to church not just to get good worship or good friends, but rather, to encourage, build up, and increase the effective outreach of the Gospel through the congregants.

If we become too critical of the church or of the leadership, we will be the problem, as much as the church we wish to criticize. A good rule, however, is to find a church that meets your own personal need. If you are weak, a weak church will not be able to help you.

If the church finds no role for you, you may want to go where you can help more. You are there not just to get, but also to give.

What a great subject! I've just scratched the surface.

 

[AlexB23]

Though these things may be relevant, I personally wish to avoid "church-hopping," as if going to church is like shopping for the best deal. Churches are at different stages of maturity, in different environments, requiring different ministries, etc. etc. The idea is for Christians in an area to gather together to build one another up in Christ, and to carry out the mission of reaching the world with the Gospel message.

That being said, there are two diametrically opposite kinds of churches that should be distinguished between. Liberal churches do not preach the true Gospel, and are overly-tolerant of sin. Instead of emphasizing a new life in Christ, the emphasis is on forgiveness without necessitating any spiritual change. Liberal churches, which deemphasize moral standards and standard orthodoxy, or dead churches, who are purely perfunctory and liturgical in their services, are not demonstrating or proclaiming the Gospel.

Some churches have historical and traditional backgrounds with a solid orthodoxy and evangelical emphasis, and yet have dried up spiritually. These are to be avoided. Liturgy and form in worship is not a bad thing, but if it replaces spontaneity and common communication, it displaces substance with mechanics.

Other than these things, the state of the church can be worked with. You go to church not just to get good worship or good friends, but rather, to encourage, build up, and increase the effective outreach of the Gospel through the congregants.

If we become too critical of the church or of the leadership, we will be the problem, as much as the church we wish to criticize. A good rule, however, is to find a church that meets your own personal need. If you are weak, a weak church will not be able to help you.

If the church finds no role for you, you may want to go where you can help more. You are there not just to get, but also to give.

What a great subject! I've just scratched the surface.

Hey, thanks for the compliments, and warm reply. Luckily, I have not church hopped in ages, I go to a Catholic church just 1/4 of a mile from my place. This checklist is for those who are new to a church, or are looking for a new church (as if when leadership changes). But yes, truth of the Gospel is the most important message, same with outreach.

@fli might find this checklist helpful, as he told me that his church had leadership change a few months ago.

 

[AlexB23]

So folks, tell me about your experiences at a worldly church. What turned you guys off by a church, and made you decide to go another one?

 

[The Liturgist]

So folks, tell me about your experiences at a worldly church. What turned you guys off by a church, and made you decide to go another one?

The church at which I was baptized put a surfboard on the altar for a “surfing” themed service in the summer of 2002 I think. It was all rock music and no traditional hymns. This was a UMC church of course. And then in the case of the UCC, it was the widespread embrace of liberalism, which was emphasized by the infamous campaign about “not putting a period where God intended a comma” which was a not so subtle way of trying to invalidate controversial passages of scripture unpopular with the left wing theologians, such as St. Paul’s prohibition of Christians engaging in sodomy.

 

[AlexB23]

The church at which I was baptized put a surfboard on the altar for a “surfing” themed service in the summer of 2002 I think. It was all rock music and no traditional hymns. This was a UMC church of course. And then in the case of the UCC, it was the widespread embrace of liberalism, which was emphasized by the infamous campaign about “not putting a period where God intended a comma” which was a not so subtle way of trying to invalidate controversial passages of scripture unpopular with the left wing theologians, such as St. Paul’s prohibition of Christians engaging in sodomy.

The [edited by AlexB23 to keep to SOP] is becoming similar to the Revelations 3:15-16, or quickly becoming that way. Dang, a surfboard on the altar, way back in 2002? That is worldly as heck. Now, rock music in churches is not totally bad, but if that is the only music played in church, then, something is wrong, and if the altar is desecrated or disrespected, that is borderline blasphemy. Traditional hymns, and softer forms of music need precedence.

 

[AlexB23]

Any other worldly church experiences folks?

 

[The Liturgist]

way back in 2022?

2002 if I recall, maybe 2003?

 

[AlexB23]

2002 if I recall, maybe 2003?

I meant to say 2002. My bad. Just edited my reply

 

[AlexB23]

What other churches are blind to Christian Scripture?

 

[The Liturgist]

What other churches are blind to Christian Scripture?

I can’t answer that question as posed without potentially violating site rules on flaming and goading and bashing entire denominations, which I support. Perhaps if you asked a different question, such as what churches, in your opinion, are worldly, I could answer.

 

[AlexB23]

I can’t answer that question as posed without potentially violating site rules on flaming and goading and bashing entire denominations, which I support. Perhaps if you asked a different question, such as what churches, in your opinion, are worldly, I could answer.

What churches, in your opinion, are worldly? This is serious stuff my friend. I tear up inside, thinking about where our world is headed. Jesus wept (Luke 19:41) over Jerusalem, as the city was worldly.

 

[AlexB23]

It is getting late here guys. We can continue this tomorrow. I'm tired, and miss the days where churches were churches, and not places to push strange, unchristian ideologies. That is why I go to a church that does not push this stuff.

 

[dms1972]

I think when they perform same-sex marriages they are worldly.

Another thing I am not keen on though it might not be a sign of worldliness, is when churches try to cater for members whole life within the church system - by having fitness suites, tennis courts, bowling alleys, shops etc. It lessens the christian presence in the wider society, and for that reason I don't think its a good thing. Its not worldliness, but more like the opposite extreme of that.

 

[AlexB23]

I think when they perform same-sex marriages they are worldly.

Another thing I am not keen on though it might not be a sign of worldliness, is when churches try to cater for members whole life within the church system - by having fitness suites, tennis courts, bowling alleys, shops etc. It lessens the christian presence in the wider society, and for that reason I don't think its a good thing. Its not worldliness, but more like the opposite extreme of that.

Agreed. Now, an in-church grocery store could work, to give churches funds to run a food bank or other missions, but yes, a bowling alley is a little overkill, though, community building is important. But yes, Christians must get out of church sometimes.

 

[PloverWing]

Another thing I am not keen on though it might not be a sign of worldliness, is when churches try to cater for members whole life within the church system - by having fitness suites, tennis courts, bowling alleys, shops etc. It lessens the christian presence in the wider society, and for that reason I don't think its a good thing. Its not worldliness, but more like the opposite extreme of that.

I hadn't thought of that aspect of the Christian fitness clubs, etc., but you're right: How can we have a presence in the wider society if we never step out into the wider society?

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello folks. How can we discern if a church is worldly (idolizes the world) or spiritual? Have any of you encountered a "worldly" church? What were some warning signs or red flags that helped you decide to leave a church?


Here is a 10-part checklist to help aid us on our church journeys.

1. Lack of emphasis on prayer and the study of scripture. If a church does not prioritize these spiritual disciplines, it may indicate a drift toward worldliness.

2. Emphasis on entertainment or popularity rather than holiness and worship. A church that focuses more on providing an entertaining experience than cultivating a holy and reverent atmosphere may be becoming too worldly.

3. Compromise on biblical truth for the sake of inclusivity or cultural relevance. Churches should strive to be welcoming and relevant, but not at the expense of abandoning core Christian beliefs.

4. Materialism or wealth-focused messages. A church that places undue emphasis on material possessions, financial success, or prosperity may be drifting into worldliness.

5. Toleration of sinful behavior among members. A truly biblical church will uphold God's standards for morality and sexual purity, and will lovingly confront and correct any member who persists in sin.

6. Lack of accountability or transparency from leadership. Church leaders should be above reproach and subject to oversight by other mature Christians. Any hint of secrecy or deceit could suggest worldliness.

7. Focus on self-help or personal fulfillment rather than discipleship and obedience to Christ. While personal growth is important, it must always take a back seat to following Jesus and obeying His commands.

8. Worldly associations or partnerships. A church that allies itself with unbelievers or secular organizations without careful discernment may be compromising its witness for the gospel.

9. Watered-down preaching or teaching. Messages that avoid controversy or challenge listeners to repentance may be catering to worldly sensibilities instead of proclaiming the full counsel of God.

10. Absence of true community or fellowship. A church that emphasizes individualism over unity and interdependence may be reflecting a broader trend toward worldliness in society as a whole.

Verse about worldly churches: A Warning from 2 Timothy 4:3 - The Gospel is not a Cafeteria
Another verse about worldly churches: Rebuke The Worldly Churches (1 Timothy 5:20)

# 1 They do not rightly divide the word of God

# 2 They do not follow the Gospel that Paul preaches

# 3 They believe that BAPTISM can save

# 4 Dispensationalism that Paul taught is foreign to them

# 5 They believe that Greek word RAPTURE is in the bible

Just to mention a FEW .

dan p

 

[RickardoHolmes]

I have to offer an alternate point here. I do church-hop and I love it. While many do preach against this activity, I find that there are many different churches which I find inspiring and useful.

I do have one rule in that if I do not feel inspired by the Sunday service, if I do not leave with a renewed or increased sense of peace and love, or without a desire to be a better person through love and practice, then I will not return.
That is why there is a long list of denominations (church of Christ, SBC, COG etc) where I will never attend.

I have primarily two churches here I participate with two congregations here locally I finally got confirmed after decades of attending the Episcopal church but I have found that being "confirmed really did not change anything
I also support a Missionary Baptist congregation here, who is pastored by a good friend and racial barriers have no place

The advantage of church hopping is that it allows a person to go where the action is.
I used to enjoy the tridentine Latin Mass, and we have a church that still does the Latin Mass once a week, but the new priest there is a hateful little man who has no business being a priest, much less a human being, so I avoid that congregation. I do know of a cathedral in the city where they frequently perform concerts, musical oratories and such, and will stop in there if they are doing something I find inspiring.

SO Yes, church hopping is the standard for me, and it has worked well for me, but I can understand why some people crave consistency or prefer a regular routine on Sunday

 

[okay]

What were some warning signs or red flags that helped you decide to leave a church?

I haven't been part of a church that had the kinds of problems that you are referring to. But the church that I grew up in gradually fell down a dark hole. My mom left a decade or more before my dad did, but at the end he wasn't allowed to even join a bible study. His 'crime'? He leaned to the left politically (he had a lot of trauma from being a child during WWII in nazi Germany and had serious aversion to any right-leaning politics...). He was also a professor, so was an 'elite' that could not be trusted. He had been in that church for 40+ years, donated tons of expertise (master cabinet maker before he immigrated and did lots of skilled work int he church; economics professor who worked on the finance committee for decades), housed youth group leaders and missionaries, would show up (literally and/or financially) every time the church was in need, etc.

So you left out an additional item involving politics. Some churches equate political 'purity' with faithfulness.

 

[AlexB23]

I haven't been part of a church that had the kinds of problems that you are referring to. But the church that I grew up in gradually fell down a dark hole. My mom left a decade or more before my dad did, but at the end he wasn't allowed to even join a bible study. His 'crime'? He leaned to the left politically (he had a lot of trauma from being a child during WWII in nazi Germany and had serious aversion to any right-leaning politics...). He was also a professor, so was an 'elite' that could not be trusted. He had been in that church for 40+ years, donated tons of expertise (master cabinet maker before he immigrated and did lots of skilled work int he church; economics professor who worked on the finance committee for decades), housed youth group leaders and missionaries, would show up (literally and/or financially) every time the church was in need, etc.

So you left out an additional item involving politics. Some churches equate political 'purity' with faithfulness.

Yeah, politics would be another thing that makes a church worldly. Both parties have flaws, and both do not focus on God. It is cool that your dad had many talents, but a shame that the church did not accept him. Which denomination was this church that you grew up in?