Woman says Grace Community Church wrongfully disciplined her over marital separation

[Michie]

John MacArthur, author and pastor of Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, speaks at the Shepherds' Conference on Wednesday, March 9, 2022. | Screengrab: shepherdsconference.org

A woman has accused the John MacArthur-led Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, of disciplining her when she sought separation from her husband, who has reportedly been abusive to her.

Lorraine Zielinski had her name publicly announced in July during a Grace communion service as someone who has been put under church discipline concerning issues regarding the separation from her husband.

Last month, she said Grace approved her to undergo the fourth step of church discipline, which is "to be ostracized from the fellowship," according to Grace's website.

Continued below.

Woman says Grace Community Church wrongfully disciplined her over marital separation

A woman has accused the John MacArthur-led Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, of disciplining her when she sought separation from her husband and alleged that she often felt bullied

www.christianpost.com

 

[mourningdove~]

Unfortunately, many churches do not seem to understand the destructive nature of abusive marriages.

 

[All Becomes New]

I never liked John MacArthur. He always seemed super dogmatic and lacking grace. Grace for the mentally ill. Grace for women. Grace for those who slightly disagree with him. He does not seem like a good man to me. He knows a lot about the Bible, but he betrays his knowledge with his actions.

 

[RileyG]

Unfortunately, many churches do not seem to understand the destructive nature of abusive marriages.

Agreed.

 

[Mark Quayle]

There may well be more to this than any of us know. If you hear only one side of a story, then....

 

[Michie]

According to the church's website, all Christians "should hate divorce as God does and pursue it only when there is no other recourse."

"With God’s help a marriage can survive the worst sins," the Grace Community Church website reads, adding, "The only New Testament grounds for divorce are sexual sin or desertion by an unbeliever."

In March 2022, The Roys Report reported that prominent pastor and author MacArthur shamed and excommunicated a mother in 2002 for filing for separation from her husband, David Gray, a former teacher at GCC who was later convicted of child molestation.

When the woman reported Gray's abusive behavior to GCC, church leaders allegedly never reported the allegations to authorities and even harassed the mother to change her mind about the separation, according to the report.

…….

Woman says Grace Community Church wrongfully disciplined her over marital separation

A woman has accused the John MacArthur-led Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, of disciplining her when she sought separation from her husband and alleged that she often felt bullied

www.christianpost.com

 

[Bob Crowley]

I long ago got the impression that John MacArthur was arrogant, but I'm biased because I'm Catholic eg.

John MacArthur errs on Catholicism & the Word

Catholic blog news theology apologetics traditional Latin

www.catholicvoyager.com

To give you a flavor for how he approaches the Catholic Church, consider the following MacArthur quote which aired on The Way of the Master Radio on November 9, 2006:

In the long war on the truth, the most formidable, relentless, and deceptive enemy has been Roman Catholicism. It is an apostate, corrupt, heretical, false Christianity. It is a front for the kingdom of Satan.

But apparently I'm not the only one.

Pride And Preaching: A Medieval Perspective On John MacArthur

I almost didn't write this post. After all, what more could I say? Sarah Bessey already voiced my outrage. The scoffing laughter of John MacArthur's

www.patheos.com

Pastor John MacArthur's two most serious errors - Warhorn Media

Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. There are two related errors that Pastor John MacArthur promotes. Given his very high profile among Protestant believers in the English-speaking world, both need to be manhandled and dispatched so both shepherds and sheep will not be led astray, but will...

warhornmedia.com

Ex members of John MacArthur's church

He reminds me of a comment my Presbyterian pastor made years ago to me in his office viz. "Protestants tell a lot of lies about Catholics and the Catholic Church" and "Protestants can be quite arrogant when it comes to Catholicism".

He didn'f fully agree with all the Catholic Church's teachings himself obviously or he would not have been Protestant (although I think he was having second thoughts late in his life). I remember a comment he made in one of his sermons "... some of the godliest people I've ever met have been Catholic".

For the record (for what its worth), he turned up in a brief vision some time after he'd died, and after I'd become Catholic. He said "The Catholic Church is closest to the truth" and then just disappeared. There was a distinct emphasis on the word "closest".

 

[mourningdove~]

For the record, I 'like' John MacArthur.
(Okay, please wait till I duck before you start tossing the ripe tomatoes this way! lol)
But really, I have learned much ... yes, even about grace ... listening to his sermons.
So I'm not about to personally attack the man over this article.

I do agree with another poster here, that we don't know all the story.

But in general, my experience has been that many churches don't seem to understand the marital abuse situation, when there is ongoing serious abuse happening. And oftentimes the advice given to the abused woman is more harmful than helpful. Just my observation.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

Evidently there is a history of this type of thing at GCC.

Christianity Today did an article on it last year -

Grace Community Church Rejected Elder’s Calls to ‘Do Justice’ in Abuse Case - Christianity Today

While a former leader hopes for change, women who sought refuge in biblical counseling at John MacArthur’s church say they feared discipline for seeking safety from their abusive marriages.

www.christianitytoday.com

Recanting claims by multiple women over multiple years.

About only hearing one side of the story.... there is truth to that I admit.

But, ummm... it sure seems like there are a lot of stories here from multiple women that all paint a similar picture.

There is another old saying about smoke and fire that may well apply here because the smoke isn't hard to find on this story.

From the article linked above..

For this story, CT spoke with eight women who recounted how they and others at Grace Community Church had been counseled to avoid reporting their husbands and fathers to authorities, to accept their apologies, and to continue to submit to them.

One interesting thing the article points out is that while MacArthur has preached against women staying in abusive situations in public, in counseling sessions the church often seems to demand the exact opposite.

 

[DavidTheGnome]

If the church you go to decides to ostracize you, would you take it as a sign to leave and seek another church?

 

[synger]

If the church you go to decides to ostracize you, would you take it as a sign to leave and seek another church?

I would take it as a sign to look at why they are ostracizing me, compare it to Scripture, and determine whether I am in the wrong and should repent. If not, if it's more of an interpretation thing, I'd be more likely to look at another church. I'm very particular about my denomination, though, and there aren't many of them around, so it might be difficult to find another church home.
I guess it comes down to how "ostracizing" the church is. If they don't let me attend, then I have to find another place to worship.

 

[Richard T]

She must be patient for sure to get to that step. Most would have left the church when they had no empathy. I pray she gets in a great church and it strengthens her relationship with God, not hurts it.

 

[synger]

She must be patient for sure to get to that step. Most would have left the church when they had no empathy. I pray she gets in a great church and it strengthens her relationship with God, not hurts it.

Agreed. Any personal criticism can be very hurtful and needs to be done carefully. While the church needs to discipline its members, the pastor needs to be gentle as well as firm. In this case, from the perspective we have access to, I feel for the woman. It sounds like she wasn't listened to and her children were put in danger, even as she strove with counseling to work to heal her marriage. She doesn't sound recalcitrant or unwilling to try.
I pray that God gives her wisdom, strength, and humility, and helps her find a solid church.

 

[okay]

Evidently there is a history of this type of thing at GCC.

Christianity Today did an article on it last year -

Just wow. Even after a husband takes sketchy photos with his daughter, does internet searches for incest porn and admits to french-kissing his daughter, the wife is supposed to wait until her husband has an actual conviction of child molestation before leaving him? Women and children are being sacrificed on the altar of 'submission'. Patriarchy is more important than people. The priorities are so screwed up that I don't even know where to start.

If husbands have that much power and control over their families in this church and have no fear of legal repercussions, it is creating conditions for this kind of abuse to flourish. I wonder if the church even ends up attracting some men with abusive tendencies.

I feel so sorry for women and children who are trapped in this 'church' and pray for their safety.

 

[The Liturgist]

John MacArthur, author and pastor of Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, speaks at the Shepherds' Conference on Wednesday, March 9, 2022. | Screengrab: shepherdsconference.org

A woman has accused the John MacArthur-led Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, of disciplining her when she sought separation from her husband, who has reportedly been abusive to her.

Lorraine Zielinski had her name publicly announced in July during a Grace communion service as someone who has been put under church discipline concerning issues regarding the separation from her husband.

Last month, she said Grace approved her to undergo the fourth step of church discipline, which is "to be ostracized from the fellowship," according to Grace's website.

Continued below.

Woman says Grace Community Church wrongfully disciplined her over marital separation

A woman has accused the John MacArthur-led Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, of disciplining her when she sought separation from her husband and alleged that she often felt bullied

www.christianpost.com

Well, that establishes that Grace Community Church is using the same social control methods of a typical cult, which we also see with several other fundamentalist church groups that place great emphasis on “church discipline” such as 9Marks.

I myself am extremely opposed to this kind of abusive church discipline, which is why i advise people to join churches that have safeguarding programs, such as the Orthodox, Catholics, the LCMs/LCC, and especially in my experience the various Anglican churches, which really have impressive programs to prevent against this kind of pastoral misconduct, like the Anglican church run by my friend @Paidiske .

I particularly like the Church of England’s safeguarding initiative, which I view as the ideal model to be followed in terms of providing a system for the independent reporting and analysis of reports of abusive behavior. It doesn’t prevent problems like this from happening, but it makes it harder for it to occur on an individual level (on the other hand, if people find themselves on the wrong side of a denomination’s changing theological or liturgical orientation, safeguarding will fail at that level).