Willful Sin/Unwillful Sin, What's the Difference?

[nephilimiyr]

Not that I haven't ever heard this before but willful sin and unwillful sin seems to be a belief by some that means alot to them. It even seems that some people believe that while willful sin leads to death, unwillful sin will not. Even when St. Paul said that the wages of sin is death. That to me means all sin.

Anyway, I don't get this. What's the diff? Do you really believe that God sees a difference in willful sin and unwillful sin? Does this belief in a difference mean we don't have to repent of unwillful sin. Does it mean that we may live in our ignorance of these unwillful sins and never have to pay the price in our bodies, souls, or relationships?

Can anybody make a list of the most common unwillful sins? That would be most helpful!

 

[New_Wineskin]

Anyway, I don't get this. What's the diff?

The diff is that sin exists - unwillful sin doesn't .

 

[sunlover1]

Not that I haven't ever heard this before but willful sin and unwillful sin seems to be a belief by some that means alot to them. It even seems that some people believe that while willful sin leads to death, unwillful sin will not. Even when St. Paul said that the wages of sin is death. That to me means all sin.

Anyway, I don't get this. What's the diff? Do you really believe that God sees a difference in willful sin and unwillful sin? Does this belief in a difference mean we don't have to repent of unwillful sin. Does it mean that we may live in our ignorance of these unwillful sins and never have to pay the price in our bodies, souls, or relationships?

Can anybody make a list of the most common unwillful sins? That would be most helpful!

I believe that He sees a difference, yes.
Otherwise we're all toast.

8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
​

Last month I was tired and just lost my temper and misspoke.
It was all sort of a knee jerk thing. like when you reach for
the brake on the passenger side, multiple times even...
knowing full well there's no brake pedal there.

It's conditioned responses and those who've been through
hell and back seem to have more knee jerk's imo.

Yeah, I do believe there's a difference.

 

[nephilimiyr]

The diff is that sin exists - unwillful sin doesn't .

LOL, yeah, I agree. But some believe that if you willfully sin after becoming a Christian, or rather, "saved" or "converted", this is what will lead to death, unwillful sin wont. I also think what they're saying is that some christians don't know all of the possible sins that they might committ, so in the event of committing a sin that they don't realise is a sin, they wont be held accountable?

 

[nephilimiyr]

I believe that He sees a difference, yes.
Otherwise we're all toast.

8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
​

Last month I was tired and just lost my temper and misspoke.
It was all sort of a knee jerk thing. like when you reach for
the brake on the passenger side, multiple times even...
knowing full well there's no brake pedal there.

It's conditioned responses and those who've been through
hell and back seem to have more knee jerk's imo.

Yeah, I do believe there's a difference.

Ok, so that is an illustration of something you did that might be considered as a sin. You're saying it was unwillful because you lost your temper? But isn't that just an excuse? Alot of different sins are committed as a result of tempers, we all have our moments don't we?

I think I understand the real difference between that and lets say something that is more premeditated. A sin that we committ, knowing it's a sin but we say to ourselves, 'heck, I'm going to do it anyway' and than may even plan it out. I get that, what I don't get is the belief in God seeing it the same way. See, I believe God views sin as sin, all of them are bad, no matter if they were just a result of a temper tantrum or whether they were premeditated, a calulated act. Yet some here believe that God does see a difference and treats those sins differently. Do you believe that? Here, do you think God wants us to repent of them all, both willful and unwillful sins? Does He give leway for unwillful sin?

That's alot of questions, I'm trying to frame them into one though.

 

[football5680]

Willful sinning would be knowing something is wrong, having other options but still choosing to sin.

Unwillful sinning could go in a bunch of different ways. You could be forced, you may unknowingly do something, etc.

The difference between the two is the intent. In willful sins your intent is evil knowing god has forbidden whatever it is. In unwillful sins you never meant to offend god. God does see the difference because he knows how we feel in our heart. Everybody will sin and that is why Jesus was sent to us. If you make the effort to follow the commandments of god and the teachings of Jesus you will be fine. If you ignore the commandments and teachings then you aren't a true Christian and Jesus will reject you.

 

[sunlover1]

Ok, so that is an illustration of something you did that might be considered as a sin. You're saying it was unwillful because you lost your temper? But isn't that just an excuse? Alot of different sins are committed as a result of tempers, we all have our moments don't we?

I understand what you mean. Yeah, it was a 'suddenly' type of thing.
I'm even tempered, not given to rage or anything. But when I sin,
(as illustrated above ) I am so remorseful and angry at myself etc.
It's like I don't want to do that, but just do it.

I think I understand the real difference between that and lets say something that is more premeditated. A sin that we committ, knowing it's a sin but we say to ourselves, 'heck, I'm going to do it anyway' and than may even plan it out. I get that,

Yeah, I can't do that other thing.
Make up a lie etc lol.
Haven't been able to do that since a teenager really.

what I don't get is the belief in God seeing it the same way. See, I believe God views sin as sin, all of them are bad, no matter if they were just a result of a temper tantrum or whether they were premeditated, a calulated act. Yet some here believe that God does see a difference and treats those sins differently. Do you believe that?

I really believe that there is sin, iniquity and transgression.
So hmm, do you want to sort that out in this thread?

And the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] passed by before him, and proclaimed, The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE], The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty;

Here, do you think God wants us to repent of them all, both willful and unwillful sins? Does He give leway for unwillful sin?

Repenting is something, imo, that we can't help but do continually.
I live to please Him.
Not to forgive us would be unjust of Him.

That's alot of questions, I'm trying to frame them into one though.

Interesting thread my friend.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I believe that He sees a difference, yes.
Otherwise we're all toast.

"Otherwise we're all toast"? But what does that mean? Does that mean that God has no mercy for those who are in bondage? You know the Church has major issues with bondage to sin? Pornagraphy, I hope you're not saying that any christian who has become ensnared into pornagraphy is toast. I'm sorry but this belief that God views willful sin different than unwillful sin is not true. And it's not just because of the rampant stain of pornagraphy in the Church but many other willful sins that many christians have entered into bondage to.

When a new believer in Christ becomes saved, do you realise that in most or all cases these people still have to over come their habits of sins? This is not always an automatic thing. This is why St Paul said we have to renew our minds to our new man, why, because we will still willfully sin because we are still conformed to the world. I'm hoping your "we're all toast" was said tongue in cheek. Over coming our habits to sin can sometimes take a day, sometimes alot longer than that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Not that I haven't ever heard this before but willful sin and unwillful sin seems to be a belief by some that means alot to them. It even seems that some people believe that while willful sin leads to death, unwillful sin will not. Even when St. Paul said that the wages of sin is death. That to me means all sin.

Anyway, I don't get this. What's the diff? Do you really believe that God sees a difference in willful sin and unwillful sin? Does this belief in a difference mean we don't have to repent of unwillful sin. Does it mean that we may live in our ignorance of these unwillful sins and never have to pay the price in our bodies, souls, or relationships?

Can anybody make a list of the most common unwillful sins? That would be most helpful!

There's diff layers to the mind . if you're doing it willfully it just means its more rooted than if you have no control over it . but in both cases you're out of control .. it's just in one you're willing to admit it .. that's the main diff i think

 

[sunlover1]

"Otherwise we're all toast"? But what does that mean? Does that mean that God has no mercy for those who are in bondage? You know the Church has major issues with bondage to sin? Pornagraphy, I hope you're not saying that any christian who has become ensnared into pornagraphy is toast. I'm sorry but this belief that God views willful sin different than unwillful sin is not true. And it's not just because of the rampant stain of pornagraphy in the Church but many other willful sins that many christians have entered into bondage to.

If someone is in bondage to porn, they're held responsible.
It's not like they've resisted to the point of blood.
...each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

When a new believer in Christ becomes saved, do you realise that in most or all cases these people still have to over come their habits of sins? This is not always an automatic thing. This is why St Paul said we have to renew our minds to our new man, why, because we will still willfully sin because we are still conformed to the world. I'm hoping your "we're all toast" was said tongue in cheek

No, it wasn't said tongue in cheek.

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are:
Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

That's how I understand it.
Anyone who's born of God can't continue in sin.
Great thing is, God is SOOO patient and longsuffering.

But to continue in sin and not care, not try to change...

 

[nephilimiyr]

Willful sinning would be knowing something is wrong, having other options but still choosing to sin.

Unwillful sinning could go in a bunch of different ways. You could be forced, you may unknowingly do something, etc.

The difference between the two is the intent. In willful sins your intent is evil knowing god has forbidden whatever it is. In unwillful sins you never meant to offend god. God does see the difference because he knows how we feel in our heart. Everybody will sin and that is why Jesus was sent to us. If you make the effort to follow the commandments of god and the teachings of Jesus you will be fine. If you ignore the commandments and teachings then you aren't a true Christian and Jesus will reject you.

Alot of this I agree with, thanks for your input.

 

[nephilimiyr]

No it wasn't said tongue in cheek.

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are:
Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

That's how I understand it.
Anyone who's born of God can't continue in sin.
Great thing is, God is SOOO patient and longsuffering.

But to continue in sin and not care, not try to change...

Not caring and not repenting or not trying to change is different then what I was talking about.

I've come across many people who I have had dissagreements with me on those same 1 John passages, and those differences stem from the same interpretation you just gave of them. Suffice it to say, I strongly disagree with it.

1 John 3:9, No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Within this verse lies our fundamental difference. "who is born of God", you believe that this is simply a chrisitan, nothing more, nothing less. I believe this is John talking about only the born again spirit, nothing more, nothing less.

John 3:6, Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

IOW, The only part of us that God gave birth to is the spirit, our born again spirit. Here's another proof.

John 1:12-13, Yet to all who recieved him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Ephesians 1:5, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will

The point is, our whole being was not born of God. We are the adopted children of God, not born. John wrote in his gospel that our spirit was born of God but not of the flesh but of the spirit. He then says in his epistle that those who are born of God does not sin nor will continue to sin. Keeping with the same frame of reference and mind, after all John is the same author in 1 John as in the gospel of John, that therefore means the only part of us that does not sin, and will not sin, and will not continue to sin is our born again spirit, the only part of us that was actually born of God. Our physical being and our soul however will continue to sin, both in a willful and unwillful way.

Until you and I come to terms on what exactly John said in his gospel or in his epistle, we will never see eye to eye on this.

 

[New_Wineskin]

LOL, yeah, I agree. But some believe that if you willfully sin after becoming a Christian, or rather, "saved" or "converted", this is what will lead to death, unwillful sin wont. I also think what they're saying is that some christians don't know all of the possible sins that they might committ, so in the event of committing a sin that they don't realise is a sin, they wont be held accountable?

That type of thinking is based on not having a relationship with the Lord . If one has the idea that He doesn't communicate with you on a personal level , one is left with a religion based on do's and don'ts that one needs to study and memorize - no different than any other religion of the world - useless . One is left with knowing about the religion and not knowing the god it is based upon .

 

[brinny]

Willful sin is of a "premeditated" kind and is done scornfully in God's face. Unwillful sin is not.

For either, there is of course, forgiveness. Perhaps that, seeking forgiveness after sinning, is the key here and is what matters most, just as David did, when after sinning grievously and willfully, sought forgiveness. Perhaps that is why God called him the "apple of His eye"

 

[Tangible]

Not that I haven't ever heard this before but willful sin and unwillful sin seems to be a belief by some that means alot to them. It even seems that some people believe that while willful sin leads to death, unwillful sin will not. Even when St. Paul said that the wages of sin is death. That to me means all sin.

Anyway, I don't get this. What's the diff? Do you really believe that God sees a difference in willful sin and unwillful sin? Does this belief in a difference mean we don't have to repent of unwillful sin. Does it mean that we may live in our ignorance of these unwillful sins and never have to pay the price in our bodies, souls, or relationships?

Can anybody make a list of the most common unwillful sins? That would be most helpful!

Sin is sin, Neph. Actual sin, whether willful or unwillful, is the fruit of our naturally sinful condition. The sin that does not lead to death is sin we repent of and confess, believing in the forgiveness that is ours in Christ. The sin that leads to death is the sin of unbelief and the fruit of unrepentance and disdain and indifference to God that it produces.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Willful Sin/Unwillful Sin, What's the Difference?

One sin is willful and the other sin is unwillful. Hope that helps.

 

[QueSi]

Was it a sin if someone didn't respect the sabbath and abide by the rules for the day if they did not know that it was the sabbath?

 

[ViaCrucis]

If I have an opportunity to act kind and loving to someone, and obliviously in my self-centeredness just merry along my way, is that sin?

Yes. I missed the mark, I sinned.

Did I intentionally go out of my way to be a jerk? No. But did I sin? Yes.

Sins of omission are just as sinful as sins of intention.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dorothea]

Not that I haven't ever heard this before but willful sin and unwillful sin seems to be a belief by some that means alot to them. It even seems that some people believe that while willful sin leads to death, unwillful sin will not. Even when St. Paul said that the wages of sin is death. That to me means all sin.

Anyway, I don't get this. What's the diff? Do you really believe that God sees a difference in willful sin and unwillful sin? Does this belief in a difference mean we don't have to repent of unwillful sin. Does it mean that we may live in our ignorance of these unwillful sins and never have to pay the price in our bodies, souls, or relationships?

Can anybody make a list of the most common unwillful sins? That would be most helpful!

I don't know if it means a lot to me, personally, and this is just my opinion, but I see that as:

Willful sin is that you are aware and do the sin purposely.
Willful sin is sin that you don't realize you've done.

I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

 

[seeingeyes]

My sin is unwillful sin. Everybody else's sin is willful sin.