Why is Pope Francis unpopular among Catholics?

[SnowyMacie]

Can someone explain to me why Francis is unpopular with Catholics, especially with from what I've seen on this site. From the outside, I don't understand it, he's humble, serves the poor, passionate about ecumenism, speaks out against the evils in the world, and haven't seen him say anything that goes against the teachings of the RCC.

 

[Erose]

Good question. I'm not sure either. Granted he isn't Pope Benedict, but who is? Me I think it has to do with expectations. Everyone was expecting him to be either conservative or liberal, and when he just toed the line of orthodoxy, which has elements found in conservatism and liberalism, he just POed the these parties within the Church. The other issue, is that he is probably the most mis-quoted pope in our timeframe. And a lot of people feel that it is his responsibility to make sure that he isn't mis-quoted, instead of the media doing their jobs without bias.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I would say it's not so much that he's unpopular, as he's just a somewhat controversial figure. That controversy tends to stem from his commentary either being taken out of context by us, or the media running with a soundbite and manipulating it to make it sound as if the Catholic Church is on the road to becoming something it would never actually become.

There are some groups who preferred Benedict XVI's papacy because he was more traditional, more theologically-oriented and more pastoral in the sense that he worked hard to see to it that his flock was looked after. In their eyes at least, I think Francis seems more concerned with people outside of the Church than those within it. Whether that's an accurate perception, I don't know.

 

[s_gunter]

From my perspective (I have to highlight that so that there's no way someone could assume "the" perspective), it's because Pope Francis comes across as a political liberal. He hasn't said anything what-so-ever against Catholic doctrine/dogma/what have you. He does advocate that we express said dogma like Christ did: with love and hope instead of condemnation.

Erose is correct, IMO, about the Pope being the most misquoted Pope in our time frame. A lot of what he says is lost in translation. I don't know if it's because the Vatican has lousy translators (Spanish does have several dialects), as has been said around here, or if it's because his native language is Spanish, and well, since one of the USA's biggest issues is Spanish speaking immigrants flooding our country, there's some bias/prejudice.

Erose said it kinder that I do/did, about everyone expecting him to claim either conservatism or liberalism, and when he showed that he was just Catholic, it ticked off everyone, especially the conservatives, IMO. That's how I see Pope Francis - purely Catholic. Catholic first, political second. IMO, if you see him as Catholic first, everything he says is perfectly clear, unless the media (secular and religious) itself is misquoting/misleading for whatever reason.

 

[Rhamiel]

passionate about ecumenism,

some might even say recklessly passionate
passionate in such a way that leaves people who are not well versed in theology confused

part of it is the "soundbite culture" our media has
like when he said "who am I to judge" in response to a repentant celibate homosexual who may have had an affair years ago but was not living as a faithful Catholic.
the media took that soundbite and ran with it

so some of it is the medias fault, some of it is the Popes fault for not adapting his style of speaking to address the tendencies of modern media

 

[s_gunter]

I would say it's not so much that he's unpopular, as he's just a somewhat controversial figure. That controversy tends to stem from his commentary either being taken out of context by us, or the media running with a soundbite and manipulating it to make it sound as if the Catholic Church is on the road to becoming something it would never actually become.

There are some groups who preferred Benedict XVI's papacy because he was more traditional, more theologically-oriented and more pastoral in the sense that he worked hard to see to it that his flock was looked after. In their eyes at least, I think Francis seems more concerned with people outside of the Church than those within it. Whether that's an accurate perception, I don't know.

That's a whopping assumption with no evidence to back it up, IMO. Just because he shows concern for those outside the church, it doesn't mean he doesn't care for his own flock. I think the prodigal son parable applies here...

 

[s_gunter]

some might even say recklessly passionate
passionate in such a way that leaves people who are not well versed in theology confused

part of it is the "soundbite culture" our media has
like when he said "who am I to judge" in response to a repentant celibate homosexual who may have had an affair years ago but was not living as a faithful Catholic.
the media took that soundbite and ran with it

so some of it is the medias fault, some of it is the Popes fault for not adapting his style of speaking to address the tendencies of modern media

Ah yes. But who should change here? Pope Francis or the media? Should Pope Francis adapt to that form of modernism?

 

[Rhamiel]

I think Francis seems more concerned with people outside of the Church than those within it.

that has been a general vibe I have picked up on.......

 

[Rhamiel]

Ah yes. But who should change here? Pope Francis or the media? Should Pope Francis adapt to that form of modernism?

it is just being an effective communicator
if people keep taking your words our of context, you work harder to be understood
especially if your words are being taken out of context by groups that are antagonistic to the Faith

 

[s_gunter]

it is just being an effective communicator
if people keep taking your words our of context, you work harder to be understood
especially if your words are being taken out of context by groups that are antagonistic to the Faith

Agreed. That said, that puts Pope Francis in a lose/lose situation, IMO. No matter what he says or how he says it, he will be conveniently misquoted to suit an agenda. He will eventually be silenced because of that, and I personally believe that is the ultimate goal of the media.

 

[Gnarwhal]

That's a whopping assumption with no evidence to back it up, IMO. Just because he shows concern for those outside the church, it doesn't mean he doesn't care for his own flock. I think the prodigal son parable applies here...

I didn't say whether I agreed with it or not, I've just seen that belief out there. I think the people who feel the most 'neglected' are those who attend the Latin Mass and have more traditional leanings in that sense. Not that Francis actively discourages it or is trying to outlaw it, but coming after Benedict XVI who actively promoted it and established the provision to make the TLM more readily available to those who want it, I guess I can see how Francis' attention to other matters can be construed as 'neglect' as far as those matters go.

 

[s_gunter]

I didn't say whether I agreed with it or not, I've just seen that belief out there. I think the people who feel the most 'neglected' are those who attend the Latin Mass and have more traditional leanings in that sense. Not that Francis actively discourages it or is trying to outlaw it, but coming after Benedict XVI who actively promoted it and established the provision to make the TLM more readily available to those who want it, I guess I can see how Francis' attention to other matters can be construed as 'neglect' as far as those matters go.

Also, I did not mean to imply that you agreed/disagreed. I was merely offering my .02 on what you said. That's all.

I've said many a time here that silence = permission. IMO, since Pope Francis remains silent on that issue, he's OK with it. I don't understand why people think that just because Pope Francis isn't vocal about it, that he disagrees with it.

 

[Rhamiel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343363/Fundamentalism-disease-religions-says-Pope.html

the Pope keeps saying that "Fundamentalism" is a problem in all religions
saying that it is a problem in the Catholic Church too........

and most Catholics in the Global North (or first world countries) are like "what are you TALKING about"
Mass attendance is low, divorce and remarriage is high, acceptance of things like abortion and homosexuality are high, religious indifference is everywhere

are there hateful Catholic bigots?
yeah
is that the main problem facing our Church
no

and not just the Global North, but there problems are present in South America as well

 

[AvilaSurfer]

The only places he's unpopular is message boards, so......who cares?

 

[SnowyMacie]

So, it's a combination of being misquoted by the media, putting orthodoxy above liberal v conservative, and coming across as caring more about those outside than inside?

 

[dzheremi]

From what I've heard from Catholic friends (who are mostly Eastern Catholics of various particular churches rather than Latins; I'm sure this makes some kind of impact on their views, though I couldn't say exactly what it would be), many see him as struggling to communicate clearly and effectively (as I'm sure we all would if we were attempting to lead a church of millions of people, and hence knew that everything we said or did would be taken as representative of them in some way). I'm not Catholic, so it's not my place to judge that one way or another, but one thing I will say is that Pope Francis and I happen to speak the same language (Spanish), and so from what I have been able to catch of his statements as they have actually been recorded coming out of his mouth in that language (as in, on tape as part of interviews, not written versions edited in various media), I find the oft-repeated accusations that the media is misquoting him or that what he says is more clear in his native language to be mostly without merit. All media, Catholic or secular, is building a narrative about the man, and to that degree there is some truncating, rewording, and so forth going on that can be seen as nefarious if you're predisposed to that, but at the end of the day if you can understand him yourself without the need for all that, you'll see that the man's words really are his words, for good or for ill. "The media made it sound like that" doesn't work when you're looking at raw video of him speaking extemporaneously in an interview on an airplane, for instance.

So I dunno. The feeling among the Catholics I know is that he is unclear, which it should be noted is something completely different than charging that he is too far on one end or another of the political spectrum, as regularly happens on this message board.

 

[s_gunter]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343363/Fundamentalism-disease-religions-says-Pope.html

the Pope keeps saying that "Fundamentalism" is a problem in all religions
saying that it is a problem in the Catholic Church too........

and most Catholics in the Global North (or first world countries) are like "what are you TALKING about"
Mass attendance is low, divorce and remarriage is high, acceptance of things like abortion and homosexuality are high, religious indifference is everywhere

are there hateful Catholic bigots?
yeah
is that the main problem facing our Church
no

and not just the Global North, but there problems are present in South America as well

IMO, this is yet another one of Pope Francis's gaffes. I googled "Catholic terrorist groups" and couldn't find any that were specifically Catholic (unless you count the IRA, and that's iffy). However, I did find tons of "Christian" terrorist groups. Some of those a Catholic fundamentalist (meaning: those who believe in violence in God's name, not strict adherence to doctrine/Dogma) could easily be a part of. Maybe he was talking about that kind of thing?

 

[RKO]

He is unpopular with Internet forum Catholics and a few other wild eyed groups. Among everyday Catholics, he is very popular.

 

[Fantine]

He's popular with all the Catholics I know, but he does present a challenging message.

 

[s_gunter]

He's popular with all the Catholics I know, but he does present a challenging message.

You might be on to something here. He DOES present a challenging message. How many times have we read (para.), "His teachings are so unclear! His methods are not what I'm used to, therefore, I'm confused!"
Is it this challenge those who are upset with him are objecting to as well?