WHY DO MANY PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THAT THE OLD COVENANT IS STILL IN EFFECT ?

[Dan Perez]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

But 2 Cor 3:12 , 13 , 14 and also Isa 6:1-13 and other verses , show the same results that Israel has been set aside .

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

And in Gal 2:14 we see the apostle Peter trying to COMPEL Gentiles to adopt Jewish customs and RITES , which means that Peter was NOT a believer saved by Grace .

What say you ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

But 2 Cor 3:12 , 13 , 14 and also Isa 6:1-13 and other verses , show the same results that Israel has been set aside .

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

What about it?
That error was dealt with in the council there.

And in Gal 2:14 we see the apostle Peter trying to COMPEL Gentiles to adopt Jewish customs and RITES ,

The text states no such thing.

which means that Peter was NOT a believer saved by Grace .

What say you ?

I say "Read the texts again."

 

[Soyeong]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

But 2 Cor 3:12 , 13 , 14 and also Isa 6:1-13 and other verses , show the same results that Israel has been set aside .

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

And in Gal 2:14 we see the apostle Peter trying to COMPEL Gentiles to adopt Jewish customs and RITES , which means that Peter was NOT a believer saved by Grace .

What say you ?

dan p

The reason to believe that the Mosaic Covenant is still in effect is because Exodus 33:14-17 and Leviticus 24:8 say that it is eternal. The New Covenant is based on better promises and one of those promises is that Israel will never cease to be a nation before God, so it is incorrect to interpret those verses as saying that Israel has been set aside. If God can break His promise to Israel, then He can break His promise to Gentiles, but God is a promise keeper.

In 2 Corinthians 3:12-14, the veil was preventing Israelites from seeing that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus, but that is a veil that works both ways by preventing Gentiles from seeing the same thing.

While Paul spoke against becoming circumcised for incorrect purposes, he was a servant of God, so he never spoke against becoming circumcised for the purposes for which God commanded it.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Diamond72]

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

Correct, without CIRCUMCISION you CANNOT be saved.

In the Bible, Paul uses the phrase “circumcision of the heart” in Romans 2:29 to describe a spiritual transformation that occurs when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. This transformation is not physical, but rather a change in the inner person that results in a new way of living.

The idea of circumcision of the heart is also found in the Old Testament, where it is used to describe a spiritual cleansing and renewal. In Deuteronomy 10:16, for example, Moses tells the Israelites to “circumcise their hearts” and remove any stubbornness or rebellion against God.

In essence, circumcision of the heart is a metaphor for spiritual rebirth and transformation. It emphasizes the importance of an inner change that leads to outward obedience to God’s will 3.

There is no temple, so there are no sacrifices. But we still need to observe what those sacrifices represent. Sometimes it is the two-year associate pastors that understand this the best and do an excellent job of teaching how the sacrifices applies to us today.

 

[Clare73]

Correct, without CIRCUMCISION you CANNOT be saved.

Salvation occurs before circumcision, it is not the result of circumcision.
Rather, circumcision is the result of salvation.

 

[Diamond72]

The reason to believe that the Mosaic Covenant is still in effect is becausse Exodus 33:14-17 and Leviticus 24:8 say that it is eternal.

David makes it very clear that the Law was given for OUR BENEFIT.
If we break the law we will suffer the consequences.
God wants what is best for us.

The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever” (Ps 19:7-9).

 

[Diamond72]

Salvation occurs before circumcision, it is not the result of circumcision.
Rather, circumcision is the result of salvation.

You cannot put the cart before the horse but you still need a horse to draw the cart.

 

[Dan Perez]

What about it?
That error was dealt with in the council there.

The text states no such thing.

I say "Read the texts again."

I do not believe that I am POLLRUMPTIOUS and that is what Acts 15:1 says and when do you believe when CIRCUMCISION stopped , with a verse will help me ?

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

David makes it very clear that the Law was given for OUR BENEFIT.
If we break the law we will suffer the consequences.
God wants what is best for us.

The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever” (Ps 19:7-9).

Likewise, it is stated to be give for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

 

[Diamond72]

Likewise, it is stated to be give for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

In the context of animal sacrifices and offerings, the fat of certain animals was prohibited for consumption and had to be offered to God on the altar. This practice is outlined in Leviticus 3:16-17 (NIV):

"All the fat is the Lord’s. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood."

People do not think this applies to us today, yet the doctors, esp. Dr Ornish talk about diet and exercise is essential to health and a long life.
I have to watch salt, fat and carbs. That pretty much means cooking everything from scratch. Processed food made in a factory is usually not good or healthy for us. One serving of most any processed food will use my salt limit for the day.

 

[Dan Perez]

The reason to believe that the Mosaic Covenant is still in effect is because Exodus 33:14-17 and Leviticus 24:8 say that it is eternal. The New Covenant is based on better promises and one of those promises is that Israel will never cease to be a nation before God, so it is incorrect to interpret those verses as saying that Israel has been set aside. If God can break His promise to Israel, then He can break His promise to Gentiles, but God is a promise keeper.

In 2 Corinthians 3:12-14, the veil was preventing Israelites from seeing that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus, but that is a veil that works both ways by preventing Gentiles from seeing the same thing.

While Paul spoke against becoming circumcised for incorrect purposes, he was a servant of God, so he never spoke against becoming circumcised for the purposes for which God commanded it.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

And I have always found EVERLSTING and ETERNAL hard to define BUT I have a verse in HEB 8:7 and 8 and Christ has nthis to say !!

For of the FIRST Covenant had been FAULTLESS , then no n place have been sought for n the second ;

Verse 8 n, For finding FAULT with them , He saith , Behold , the days come when I will make a NEW COVENANT with then house Israel and with the house of Judah and of course verse 9 .

So the OLD COVENANT was set aside no matter what anyone says and Israel and Judah are 2 separate STICKS and have to be made ONE STICK and that will not happen , till the BODY OF CHRIST is gone to Govern the UNIVERE and ANGELS as Paul wrote in 1 Cor 6:2 and 3 .

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

And I have always found EVERLSTING and ETERNAL hard to define BUT I have a verse in HEB 8:7 and 8 and Christ has nthis to say !!

For of the FIRST Covenant had been FAULTLESS , then no n place have been sought for n the second ;

Verse 8 n, For finding FAULT with them , He saith , Behold , the days come when I will make a NEW COVENANT with then house Israel and with the house of Judah and of course verse 9 .

So the OLD COVENANT was set aside no matter what anyone says and Israel and Judah are 2 separate STICKS and have to be made ONE STICK and that will not happen , till the BODY OF CHRIST is gone to Govern the UNIVERE and ANGELS as Paul wrote in 1 Cor 6:2 and 3 .

dan p

In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in connection with the promise, but rather the New Covenant still involves following it (Jeremiah 31:33). The only way that the New Covenant can replace an eternal covenant is if it does everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), which is why the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). So while we are under the New Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same law for how to testify about His nature.

While it says that God found fault with the Mosaic Covenant, it does not say God found fault with its terms or with His law, but rather it says that the fault that He found was with the people for not continuing in their covenant. So correct salutation to the problem was not to do away with God's eternal law, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), sending His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Mosaic Law (Romans 8:2-4), and putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts so that we will obey it.

 

[Dan Perez]

In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in connection with the promise, but rather the New Covenant still involves following it (Jeremiah 31:33). The only way that the New Covenant can replace an eternal covenant is if it does everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), which is why the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). So while we are under the New Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same law for how to testify about His nature.

While it says that God found fault with the Mosaic Covenant, it does not say God found fault with its terms or with His law, but rather it says that the fault that He found was with the people for not continuing in their covenant. So correct salutation to the problem was not to do away with God's eternal law, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), sending His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Mosaic Law (Romans 8:2-4), and putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts so that we will obey it.

It does not matter what the terms were as it all part of the OLD COVENANT .

If the Old COVENANT is still in effect , where is the temple , its High Priest , it Sacrifices , for ATONEMENT are gone .

It also seen that the NEW COVENANT is not in place as Christ would be here , and ruling with the 12 apostles judging the 12 tribes of Israel .

Question for those who believe that we are still under the O.T , how was Peter saved ?

Just wondering ?

I may not have time to reply as I am always gone on Wednesday .




dan p

 

[pasifika]

In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in connection with the promise, but rather the New Covenant still involves following it (Jeremiah 31:33). The only way that the New Covenant can replace an eternal covenant is if it does everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), which is why the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). So while we are under the New Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same law for how to testify about His nature.

While it says that God found fault with the Mosaic Covenant, it does not say God found fault with its terms or with His law, but rather it says that the fault that He found was with the people for not continuing in their covenant. So correct salutation to the problem was not to do away with God's eternal law, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), sending His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Mosaic Law (Romans 8:2-4), and putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts so that we will obey it.

Hi, I think you misinterpreted Galatians 3:16 (is the old covenant through Moses which cannot nullify the previous covenant of Promise God made with Abraham, and that covenant was put to effect by the blood of Christ the "seed" of Abraham.)

 

[Soyeong]

Hi, I think you misinterpreted Galatians 3:16 (is the old covenant through Moses which cannot nullify the previous covenant of Promise God made with Abraham, and that covenant was put to effect by the blood of Christ the "seed" of Abraham.)

I meant to start with Galatians 3:15, which is speaking about covenants in general where no one annuls or adds to even a man-made covenant once it has been ratified, so while I agree that the specific example is of the Mosaic Covenant not nullifying the promise of the Abrahamic covenant, it is something that is generally true of all covenants, including the New Covenant.

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the Heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In Psalms 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham and multiplied and are a blessing to the nations is not through having many physical descendants, but through turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel, and the New Covenant does not nullify this.

 

[Soyeong]

It does not matter what the terms were as it all part of the OLD COVENANT .

If the Old COVENANT is still in effect , where is the temple , its High Priest , it Sacrifices , for ATONEMENT are gone .

It also seen that the NEW COVENANT is not in place as Christ would be here , and ruling with the 12 apostles judging the 12 tribes of Israel .

Question for those who believe that we are still under the O.T , how was Peter saved ?

Just wondering ?

I may not have time to reply as I am always gone on Wednesday .




dan p

The Mosaic Covenant was made before the first temple had been built, so it is not dependent upon it. The Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years. Laws that weren't followed after the destruction of the 1st temple were once again followed after the construction of the 2nd temple. The condition for the Israelites to return from exile was to first return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which contained instructions that required there them to have access to the temple that had just been destroyed, so the Mosaic Covenant is not contingent on those things. What matters is that the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about the eternal nature of who God is and we should live in a way that testifies about His eternal nature. Even if God had never made any covenants with man, we would still be obligated to live in a way that testifies about His eternal nature in accordance with His law.

Peter was saved by grace through faith by the same means as everyone else (Psalms 119:29-30).

 

[ARBITER01]

Hi, I think you misinterpreted Galatians 3:16 (is the old covenant through Moses which cannot nullify the previous covenant of Promise God made with Abraham, and that covenant was put to effect by the blood of Christ the "seed" of Abraham.)

Correct.

We are children of Abraham, not Moses. GOD reached back before the mosiac law to Abraham. That shows the wisdom of GOD.

 

[Soyeong]

Correct.

We are children of Abraham, not Moses. GOD reached back before the mosiac law to Abraham. That shows the wisdom of GOD.

Both Abraham and Moses walked in God's way in obedience to His law (Genesis 18:19, Exodus 33:13). In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, and the works that they ought to be doing were in obedience to the Mosaic Law. God made His wisdom known through the Mosaic Law.

 

[ARBITER01]

Both Abraham and Moses walked in God's way in obedience to His law (Genesis 18:19, Exodus 33:13). In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, and the works that they ought to be doing were in obedience to the Mosaic Law. God made His wisdom known through the Mosaic Law.

He never said anything like that. I know you like to think He did, but He didn't. Besides, Moses came on the scene about 500 years after Abraham.

It's a new covenant, not a renewed one. I'm a gentile anyways, so I could care less about some jewish requirements.

 

[pasifika]

I meant to start with Galatians 3:15, which is speaking about covenants in general where no one annuls or adds to even a man-made covenant once it has been ratified, so while I agree that the specific example is of the Mosaic Covenant not nullifying the promise of the Abrahamic covenant, it is something that is generally true of all covenants, including the New Covenant.

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the Heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In Psalms 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham and multiplied and are a blessing to the nations is not through having many physical descendants, but through turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel, and the New Covenant does not nullify t

I meant to start with Galatians 3:15, which is speaking about covenants in general where no one annuls or adds to even a man-made covenant once it has been ratified, so while I agree that the specific example is of the Mosaic Covenant not nullifying the promise of the Abrahamic covenant, it is something that is generally true of all covenants, including the New Covenant.

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the Heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In Psalms 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham and multiplied and are a blessing to the nations is not through having many physical descendants, but through turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel, and the New Covenant does not nullify this.

The New covenant is the same covenant God made with Abraham and to His seed (Christ)..