Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT COMMIT sin. Really?

[tonychanyt]

1 John 1:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

But then only 2 chapters later, King James Bible 1 John 3:

9a Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

commit
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

Koine-Greek.com:

The imperfective aspect (traditionally, the Present “tense” and the Imperfect “tense”) are used in states of affairs involving customary/habitual action.​

Wallace, for example, simply says: “The customary present is used to signal either an action that regularly occurs or an ongoing state. The action is usually iterative, or repeated, but not without interruption. This usage is quite common”​

The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard Version:

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in 1 John 5:

18a We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning,

The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a:

Having been born of God, he does not routinely sin.

Now onto the next clause:

18b but he who has been born of God keeps himself

The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:

Having had been born of God clearly and distinctly, God protects him.

Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same dictionary meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

 

[d taylor]

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​

The verse about born of God does not sin. Is addressing the Spirit Life the born again child of God has and received when they believed in Jesus. The Holy Spirit does not sin (The New Man) but our sin nature (old man) will still sin. Depends who you are letting guide your life, as to how much a believer may be or may not be sinning.

 

[tonychanyt]

-
​

The verse about born of God does not sin. Is addressing the Spirit Life the born again child of God has and received when they believed in Jesus. The Holy Spirit does not sin (The New Man) but our sin nature (old man) will still sin. Depends who you are letting guide your life, as to how much a believer may be or may not be sinning.

That's a good way to interpret it

 

[Gregorikos]

-
​

The verse about born of God does not sin. Is addressing the Spirit Life the born again child of God has and received when they believed in Jesus. The Holy Spirit does not sin (The New Man) but our sin nature (old man) will still sin. Depends who you are letting guide your life, as to how much a believer may be or may not be sinning.

Do you really think that the point of 1 John 3:7-10 is that God does not sin? I don't think so. The beginning of that section is not about god committing sin, it's about people:

If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. 1 John 2:29 (NIV)

That is the context of 3:9. Tony had it right.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard Version: No one born of God makes a **practice** of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

I would have to look hard at this bro.
The idea being presented is the reason we do not sin is because we are the seed of God and God does not sin. The idea of "habitual" is not really in the context of the statement. IOWs if we do not habitually sin, it is because God does not habitually sin. That does not sound right. God does not sin at all, much less habitually. So I think the verse is correct as translated by the KJV. Also the phase "cannot sin" would also seem to convey the idea that we will not sin because we cannot sin. It does not sound right to say "we do not habitually sin because we cannot sin."
The context is that we do not sin and cannot sin because we have the seed of God, which cannot sin.
Some see difficulty because as read it would seem to immediately place all under condemnation. I have never met a believer who was so bold so as to say they never sinned. I will confess right out that as a believer for 52 years, I have sinned more than I like... and worn out my confession booth. So what is the solution?
The solution is knowing what part of you was born of God. You body was not. Your mind was not. Only your spirit was born of God and only your spirit has the seed of God in it. So this verse and others is only talking about your spirit.
I have studied the idea that the correct word in 3:9 should be "whatsover" not "whosoever."
Look at 1 John 5

1 John 5:4 KJV
4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This, I think is the correct concept and understanding. The "whatsover" here is our born again spirit, not our whole person.
Thank you

 

[tonychanyt]

I would have to look hard at this bro.
The idea being presented is the reason we do not sin is because we are the seed of God and God does not sin. The idea of "habitual" is not really in the context of the statement.

Are you familiar with the Greek present tense?

 

[CoreyD]

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

But then only 2 chapters later,
King James Bible 1 John 3:9a Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

commit
ποιεῖ (poiei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 4160: (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause. Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do.

Koine-Greek.com:

The imperfective aspect (traditionally, the **Present** “tense” and the Imperfect “tense”) are used in states of affairs involving customary/habitual action.​

Wallace, for example, simply says: “The customary present is used to signal either an action that regularly occurs or an ongoing state. The action is usually iterative, or repeated, but not without interruption. This usage is quite common”​

The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard Version: No one born of God makes a **practice** of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in
1 John 5:18a We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning,

The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a: Having been born of God, he does not routinely sin.

Now onto the next clause:
18b but he who has been born of God keeps himself

The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:
Having had been born of God clearly and distinctly, God protects him.

Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same dictionary meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

Kinda long.
I would have stopped at this.
1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

But then only 2 chapters later,
King James Bible 1 John 3:9a Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

Be with sin, and commit sin, are two different things.
The latter involves action. The former does not.
So, while sin is in all of us - that is, we all have sin, ingrained in us, with sinful tendencies, those born again to not practice sin, as you said. Practice, being the operative word.

 

[pasifika]

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

But then only 2 chapters later,
King James Bible 1 John 3:9a Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

commit
ποιεῖ (poiei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 4160: (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause. Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do.

Koine-Greek.com:

The imperfective aspect (traditionally, the **Present** “tense” and the Imperfect “tense”) are used in states of affairs involving customary/habitual action.​

Wallace, for example, simply says: “The customary present is used to signal either an action that regularly occurs or an ongoing state. The action is usually iterative, or repeated, but not without interruption. This usage is quite common”​

The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard Version: No one born of God makes a **practice** of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in
1 John 5:18a We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning,

The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a: Having been born of God, he does not routinely sin.

Now onto the next clause:
18b but he who has been born of God keeps himself

The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:
Having had been born of God clearly and distinctly, God protects him.

Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same dictionary meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

YEs and Amen

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I disagree with the "does not habitually sin" interpretation.
The verse says that that which is born of God does not, sin CANNOT sin, because the seed of God is in Him.
If the concept was "habitual" sin, then we would be force to understand that we do cannot sin because God does not habitually sin. Yet we know that is not right. God does not sin at all!
I have come to understand the verse to mean that part of you that was born of God (your spirit) cannot sin, because it has the seed of God.
When you were born of God your body and your soul were not born again, only your spirit.
Hence the verse means that if you walk in the spirit and not in the flesh, then you will not, cannot sin.

 

[CoreyD]

I disagree with the "does not habitually sin" interpretation.
The verse says that that which is born of God does not, sin CANNOT sin, because the seed of God is in Him.
If the concept was "habitual" sin, then we would be force to understand that we do cannot sin because God does not habitually sin. Yet we know that is not right. God does not sin at all!
I have come to understand the verse to mean that part of you that was born of God (your spirit) cannot sin, because it has the seed of God.
When you were born of God your body and your soul were not born again, only your spirit.
Hence the verse means that if you walk in the spirit and not in the flesh, then you will not, cannot sin.

Can I ask, which is you -body and soul, or spirit?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Can I ask, which is you -body and soul, or spirit?

When we say "I" it is our soul that is speaking.
We are a soul. We have a spirit, and exist within a body.

 

[CoreyD]

When we say "I" it is our soul that is speaking.
We are a soul. We have a soul, and exist within a body.

Thanks. So, can you explain, if you say, "your body and your soul were not born again, only your spirit", and you are the soul, how are you born again, and how can you walk in the spirit?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Thanks. So, can you explain, if you say, "your body and your soul were not born again, only your spirit", and you are the soul, how are you born again, and how can you walk in the spirit?

You, (your soul) chooses where you will walk. You can choose to walk in the spirit, or you can choose to walk in the flesh.
If you choose to walk in the spirit, you will never sin.

 

[anetazo]

Epistle John chapter 3. The difference between the sinner and habitual sinners.
The sinners, are Christians, who repent and try not to sin.
The habitual sinners are those who won't repent and don't care.
Theirs two different classifications here. It's easy to understand.
The first group are children of light.
The second group are children of darkness.
Isnt difficult to conclude who goes to paradise and who goes to Sheol.

 

[CoreyD]

You, (your soul) chooses where you will walk. You can choose to walk in the spirit, or you can choose to walk in the flesh.
If you choose to walk in the spirit, you will never sin.

Thanks. and how are you born again, if your soul is not born again?

 

[Bob_1000]

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

But then only 2 chapters later,
King James Bible 1 John 3:9a Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

commit
ποιεῖ (point)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 4160: (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause. Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do.

Koine-Greek.com:

The imperfective aspect (traditionally, the **Present** “tense” and the Imperfect “tense”) are used in states of affairs involving customary/habitual action.​

Wallace, for example, simply says: “The customary present is used to signal either an action that regularly occurs or an ongoing state. The action is usually iterative, or repeated, but not without interruption. This usage is quite common”​

The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard Version: No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in
1 John 5:18a We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning,

The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a: Having been born of God, he does not routinely sin.

Now onto the next clause:
18b but he who has been born of God keeps himself

The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:
Having had been born of God clearly and distinctly, God protects him.

Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same dictionary meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

Those verses are explained here:

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[GDL]

Those verses are explained here:

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

An interesting take. I wonder if this condition remains in us in Christ because Romans8 instructs re: the freedom from this condition. On the other hand, there are commands to obey in order to be actively free.

 

[GDL]

1John3:9 has always been and is still being debated. One of the proposed solutions is certainly in how to deal with the verb tenses.

I'm going to put forth a rough paraphrase observing the tenses and being literal with at least one verb (do, doing vs. practicing which is not a very literal way to translate this verb and confuses it with another one):

• Firstly, note that there is a self-purifying (active voice) process the Christian is involved in per 1John3:3. I think this sets the tone and since it seems it can only be an active ongoing process; I'm going to translate all the present tense verbs and participles to reflect this ongoing process.
  • IMO this may help us to see what's being taught.
  • It also does not conflict with 1John1 where we're clearly informed that we do have sin and that we do sin and are required to acknowledge it to our Father under the advocacy of our Lord in order to receive our Father's forgiveness and cleansing.
    • In Christ, this is part of the purifying process we are involved in.

- Every Christian is purifying himself to be like Jesus who is pure (now explanation comes):

- Everyone who is doing the sin also is doing the lawlessness (indeed sin is lawlessness)​

- The Christian knows:

- that Jesus was made known to remove the sins/lawlessness​

- [that] there's no sin/lawlessness in Jesus​

- Every Christian remaining in Jesus is not sinning/doing lawlessness

- Everyone who is sinning/doing lawlessness has not seen Jesus and has not known Jesus​

- Christians, DO NOT LET ANYONE MISLEAD YOU

- The Christian who is doing the righteousness is [a] righteous person just as that one (Jesus) is righteous​

- The one who is doing the sin/lawlessness is from the diabolos because the diabolos is sinning/doing lawlessness from the beginning​

- The Son of God was made known to destroy the [sinful/lawless] works of the diabolos​

- The Christian - the person who has been fathered from God - is not doing sin/lawlessness​

- because God's sperma remains in him​

- The Christian is not able to be sinning/doing lawlessness​

- because the Christian has been fathered from God​

- The one who is not doing the righteousness is not [fathered] from God - indeed everyone who is not loving his brother​

As I recall, there are several layers of chiastic structures in this section of Scripture that are complex to deal with.

IMO what John is clearly telling us is that there is a process going on here. It's the same growth process Hebrews and Paul speak of in terms of growing from infancy to maturity and then beyond as mature. Paul's instruction about this maturity and beyond in Phil3 is amazing.

It's not that we're doing this purifying without fail along the way. It's not that we have no ability to sin. It's that our normal mode of operation is growth and purifying to be like Jesus.

• Even the acknowledging of sin we may do fits within this dynamic remaining/abiding in Jesus with God's sperma/seed remaining in us.
  • It's described as a "walk." A walk (with Jesus) is dynamic and ongoing.
  • When we fail the pure, righteous, lawful Jesus Christ, we have been given the spiritual ability to realize it (it's as if He stops the walk and looks at us with one of those looks whereby one knows something's wrong and the conscience lights up), and to immediately acknowledge our failing, be forgiven & cleansed, and the walk continues.
  • Many of the terms related to sin are actually words that speak about stumbling, tripping off the path, tripping and falling down. As I said, very dynamic.

Obedience is our norm. So, ongoing purifying and doing righteousness is our norm. Failure happens but is not our norm and becomes less and less the norm as purifying takes place.

There are a few classifications of the present tense I would consider concluding if I had to. We might even consider a change from one to another as one becomes more and more pure and mature in Christ. There is simply an ongoing process of growth until we take our last breath here.