Where is Eden?

[Stephen P]

[EDIT]
I've added one attachments here.
1. The Blank Pangea Map with the "Countries".
2. Use a Public Modern Map off the net to compare.. The producer of the map should not matter.

Where is EDEN - PRACTICALLY PHYSICALLY?
Many are discussing the importance of words instead of discussing theories / possibilities of where Eden is.
Is it Spiritual can be discussed elsewhere please.
This post is if Eden is physical, then where is it.
~This post is meant to result in a set of maps / Scenarios 1,2,3,4... etc, not endless discussions of wether the words used are right or not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where is Eden?
Use The Tree of Life as a pointer because it still exists and is still in the LOCATION of EDEN.
Points to consider:
1. The Tree of Life was in Eden, else Adam didn't need to be cast out of Eden as part of the protection of the Tree of Life.
2. The Location of the Tree of Life still exists and the Tree of Life still exists, because the road to it is protected; the Bible would have described the destruction otherwise, and not gone to the trouble of protecting it.
3. Assumption -- that many other plants/trees/vegetable matter were still in Eden at the time, but only Tree of Life was to be protected, so that this plant matter is subsidiary?
4. The road to the Tree is Protected by fire - The Blazing one.
5. The fire is also warning to stay away from the Tree.

G3v24 RMT: and he cast out the human, and the keruvs and the blazing one dwelt from the east to the garden of Eden, the sword overturning herself to safeguard the road of the tree of life,

Questions:
Q1. Is it possible to have a fire burning since the Time of Eden? (1000'of years)
Q2. Is there a place that speaks of protection / warning?

Possible applicants:
Burning Mountain - Wikipedia
"The Aborigines named the mountain Wingen, which means 'fire'. Their explanation of the origin of the burning mountain was that one day, a tribesman was lighting a fire on the mountainside when he was carried off deep into the earth by The Evil One. Unable to escape, he used his fire stick to set the mountain alight, so that the smoke might warn others to keep away."
"The underground fire is estimated to be at a depth of around 30 m (100 ft). It is estimated that the fire has burned for approximately 6,000 years and is the oldest known coal fire."

Possible location:

GROUND
-------
30m depth = FIRE/COAL - Plant matter
-------
Earth
-------
EDEN/Tree
-------
If someone was being totally realistic, a ramp down, say 100m is easy, even for ancient times, going down to a covered sinkhole for example.
Sinkholes are everywhere...
TIL there is a whopping big hole in the harbour near the Harbour Bridge (43m deep when surroundings average 13m) : sydney

Comments:
Location seen as a warning, Using Plant matter to keep burning, Fire for 1000's of years.
# ONLY 30m depth.
So can be easily opened up at some stage, and accessed again.

Tree of life WILL be used at End of Days:
REV2:7 "Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches. To everyone who conquers, I will give permission to eat from the tree of life that is in the paradise of God."

REV22:2 through the middle of the street of the city. On either side of the river is the tree of life[a] with its twelve kinds of fruit, producing its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

REV22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[a] so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates.

REV22:19 if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

[Sabertooth]

No one knows for sure where it is located. Two similar theories presume that the Tree of Life might have been further concealed by changes in geography brought on by either

• Noah's Flood or
• Peleg's "division" [Genesis 10:25].

It is interesting to note that Adam & Eve were exiled to the east of Eden. If Noah grew up in the same neighborhood, his ark's landing on Mt. Ararat [modern Turkey] could give us a clue. (The Ark had neither power, nor a rudder, so it only drifted. )

 

[Tra Phull]

Didn't Joseph Smith of the Mormons say Garden of Eden was in Missouri ?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If Noah grew up in the same neighborhood, his ark's landing on Mt. Ararat [modern Turkey] could give us a clue.

That also happens to be near the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, which is another clue.

 

[Stephen P]

No one knows for sure where it is located. Two similar theories presume that the Tree of Life might have been further concealed by changes in geography brought on by either

• Noah's Flood or
• Peleg's "division" [Genesis 10:25].

It is interesting to note that Adam & Eve were exiled to the east of Eden. If Noah grew up in the same neighborhood, his ark's landing on Mt. Ararat [modern Turkey] could give us a clue. (The Ark had neither power, nor a rudder, so it only drifted. )

Yes!
I had Eden marked as Kuwait. Reason, Eden was teeming with swarmers in the waters, Fish make oil and Kuwait is one of the largest AND is right near the point of Scientific start of mankind.
When the flood happened, I wondered that Eden would be still part of Earth, it is not noted that God destroyed Eden, only hid the Tree so to me, Eden would also be flooded, therefore all the dead material pooled in the gulf and voila. Mind you, it could have pooled naturally from many sources as well as from Eden.. just like in America where skeletons are sorted by largest to smallest, like what would happen if skeletons were swirling around in a pool.
Human-wise, IF we did start in the Rift Valley, (volcanic/fire) then we walked north, towards Ararat.
Also based on Fossil evidence. Early human migrations - Wikipedia
BIG NOTE: Ararat is between Caspian and Black sea almost at Armenia.
Kuwait is pretty well directly South from Ararat.
Mezmalskaya Cave - Neanderthals are close by Ararat in nearby Georgia.
Noah's post Flood place?
Denisovans and Neanderthals are further East of that (Cain? with wives?)
Help me!
Please play join the dots more.. or suggest alternatives..
I'm interested if anyone can suggest alternative or add anythign....

 

[Stephen P]

Interesting scientific info on how "Zircons are so robust that they survive most geologic events,"
One of The Supercontinents Is Different from the Others (It’s Rodinia)

It's like God has made a tape-trail to show us what happened in the past -
I do believe God wants us to find out what He did.
I respectfully do not believe we should say - well it's in the Bible so it happened that way.
Or Well that parts is a story/parable isn't it?

Job 12:7-10
7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish in the sea inform you.
9 Which of all these does not know
that the hand of the Lord has done this?
10 In his hand is the life of every creature
and the breath of all mankind.

 

[Stephen P]

Big thought - please give feedback..
Many sites say "Yeah but rivers were renamed many aeons ago" ..
Against that: The current location of one river - Pishon going around all of the land of the Hhawilah - has Ethiopea as neighbour; it has gold, amber and onyx as the Bible says the land had.
Note: around all the land.. so the river wraps around the country that produces all of this stuff.
I have not looked at this in detail im only joining dots on the map, and I am only looking for a pattern that matches the Biblical description..
Start from the the Nile backwards, and then connect the waters at Khartoum, Juba, Fort Portal, Goma, Bujumbura, Mbeya, Finally Chinde, you'd get a substantial area wrapped with one single water course.

 

[Stephen P]

The 4 rivers by Plate techtonics.
Ireland and Plate Tectonics
Dive Between Two Continents in This Frigid Fissure in Iceland | Travel | Smithsonian Magazine
The other thought of mine after seeing many animations of plate techtonics where there is a tear in the land where eventually a new divide in continents will be. (I thought it was Ireland!! Help anyone?? )
Anyway, at the beginning, there is a small crack. ie river sized.
So time wise to this, theres a mod - Shroeder suggested a possible reason based on Genesis coming from Gods perspective, not Mans, so the time scale is different..
Incredible Map of Pangea With Modern Day Borders
This is just a starting point suggestion, not a theory
What if the 4 rivers were divides in the continents?
Could this be recreated in any of the Continental plans?
Starting point
~~~~~~~~~~~~
If so, then The Garden of Eden is the still the starting point, and if we see The Garden of Eden as
1.a Great Rift Valley,
1.b Somewhere near Kuwait
Does that fit?
I'm starting at Pangea: three of the others Supercontinents are roughly similar apart from Rhodinia, which Earth: The making of a planet sees as a Mars like version.
Using:
Incredible Map of Pangea With Modern Day Borders
BIG Apologies! I do not have a mouse so this is not going to be nice.
Notice the numbering of the rivers : same as the numbering of the days.
It says one, second, not first, second
one is Pishon, he is the one going around all the land of the Hhawilah
second river is Giyhhon, he is the one going around all the land of Kush
Cush (Bible) - Wikipedia "believed to have been located on either side or both sides of the Red Sea"
I've made Kush All East of the Red Sea.
third river is Hhideqel, he is the one walking eastward of Ashur,
and the fourth river, he is Perat,
Note: the fourth is called by name, but does NOT have an additional location. i've made it the additional path going round the west side of Madagascar (Ashur) that that Hhideqel makes going to the East.
Again, just joining dots, feel free to modify, suggest different - with accompanying pics. (so I'm not the only one with terrible graphics )
BTW The Disciples questioned all the time and said stuff that the couldn't do (Peter, I'm looking at you.)
I honestly don't see a religious issue with trying to work out this stuff.
If it's there then it is fact. So to me, It's not a sin to have a go at coming up with something as long as it is not taking away from the Bible..

At this point, no Continental compressed mountain ranges, so all is fairly flat I would believe - Agree?
Ararat is a compound volcano so is perfectly able to have come from anywhere at any time, and be placed for The Flood.
After the The Flood, the Red sea "Pond" (not fully open at the south according to the map) becomes one of the dumping grounds of the worlds dead fish etc, and therefore spawns one of the largest oil fields.
The Rift could be where The Garden of Eden is, since it is considered one of the places of the Foundation of humanity.
It is covered by [G3v24 blazing one dwelt from the east] fire.
what is the rift valley

"
Geologists know that the Rift Valley was formed by violent subterranean forces that tore apart the earth's crust. These forces caused huge chunks of the crust to sink between parallel fault lines and force up molten rock in volcanic eruptions.
"
This adds something to the middle of "my Order of things".
GEN2:8 RMT: and YHWH the Elohiym planted a garden in Eden from the east and placed there the human which he molded,
1. Rift valley (Garden in Eden)
2. Fire in Eden - seals the Garden in Eden (Rift Valley)
3. Flood in World (Eden - one land Pangea)
Cheers
Steve

 

[mmksparbud]

It is the garden of Eden. The garden was placed in the east of Eden. The earth was called Eden, or the eastward part of the area was called Eden, the garden did not have a name of its own.

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.

 

[Stephen P]

Flood Discussion Thread moved to
The Flood - carried on from Eden Thread

 

[Stephen P]

It is the garden of Eden. The garden was placed in the east of Eden. The earth was called Eden, or the eastward part of the area was called Eden, the garden did not have a name of its own.

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.

Yep so the Land of Eden would be the whole area on the map
Eqypt to Ethiopia, to Mozambique
The Garden of Eden in this example would be the Rift Valley area.

 

[Sabertooth]

That also happens to be near the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, which is another clue.

The four rivers named in Genesis 2:11-14 were

1. the Pison/Pishon,
2. the Gihon,
3. the Hiddekel (a.k.a. the Tigris) &
4. the Perath (a.k.a. the Euphrates)

The reason that I think #1 & 2 are uncertain is because they existed in a different topography (like Pangea).

"So He drove out the man;
and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden,
and a flaming sword which turned every way,
to guard the way to the tree of life." Genesis 3:24 NKJV

That the cherubim patrolled the eastern border of Eden means that Man was exiled even further east.

(Also note that in Revelation 22:2, the Tree of Life is associated with New Jerusalem, so Jerusalem is a good candidate for concealed Eden, too. )

 

[Stephen P]

The four rivers named in Genesis 2:11-14 were

1. the Pison/Pishon,
2. the Gihon,
3. the Hiddekel (a.k.a. the Tigris) &
4. the Perath (a.k.a. the Euphrates)

The reason that I think #1 & 2 are uncertain is because they existed in a different topography (like Pangea).

"So He drove out the man;
and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden,
and a flaming sword which turned every way,
to guard the way to the tree of life." Genesis 3:24 NKJV

That the cherubim patrolled the eastern border of Eden means that Man was exiled even further east.

(Also note that in Revelation 22:2, the Tree of Life is associated with New Jerusalem, so Jerusalem is a good candidate for concealed Eden, too. )

re rivers.
Just remember that names change and are doubled, For example there are two Locations called "Sydney Harbour" : - N.S.W, Aussie, and Nova Scotia, Canada

But yes, I would be happier with a better fit.
Hey, just like a child, sometimes it takes some trial and error before it becomes obvious where the square peg fits.
However, at least we are trying to fit it which is what I'm happy about.
The other thing is ideas are still good.
We may be talking about Squares and agree that it should be blue; later, someone may look at it and go what if the blue colour is right, but it's a triangle?
And we go forward.
People that said electricity was a fluid, but at least that laid a foundation for more improvement.
If people said "Its in the Bible, Shut up" no ones going to look for answers.

New Jerusalem, good point.
Hmm.. wonder.. my reverse tech again
Eden,
Garden in.
Jerusalem
So to go back to the "Genesis Heaven"
New Jerusalem
New Garden - Tree
New Eden

So if new Eden, then I'm thinking lake of fire. So, what if from Earth the making of a Continent.
----------1100 Million Years ago
{Continent Rhodinia}
21:28 Rhodinia Vast Supercontinent - Mars like
21:48 Temp 28 degrees Celsisus and days 18 hours long
----------0750 Million Years ago
(Over Heat and continental breakup)
22:50 Washington state for eg is being riped apart
23:59 Many Volcanoes puch CO2 into atmosphere again
NOTE-- #8
24:31 CO2 in air + Water = Acid rain
24:33 Acid rain absorbed by rocks which absorbs much of the CO2
NOTE-- #9
25:07 Not enough CO2 to trap the Sun's heat any more. In only a few 1000 years the temperature plummets to minus 50 degrees.
NOTE-- #10

----------0650 Million Years ago
(Snowball Earth)
25:42 Southern Australia
26:00 Kilometre high wall of ice.
NOTE-- #11
26:20 CUMULATIVE the more ice, the more heat reflected so the colder it gets. This is a 'Runaway Effect', cold.
26:55 3km thick ice entombs the earth
27:30 Where is the single celled 'life' from before?
27:46 What starts the reverse of the ice lockdown is: Volcanoes. The continue to pump out CO2 but now the rocks are buried so no absorbton of CO2 so the atmosphere re-warms.

So something like this. We get an overheat from another mantle circulation disturbance, some of the crust is again re - absorbed into the mantle and we have our lake of lava.
The redistribution of the continents *MAY* push them together back into one Continent / one people again.

s.

 

[Sabertooth]

New Jerusalem, good point.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Tree of Life appears close to where Jesus' cross was located...?

 

[Stephen P]

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Tree of Life appears close to where Jesus' cross was located...?

In the Garden of Gethsemene.
[Edit]
The New Garden.

 

[Sabertooth]

And BTW Happy for someone else to make a map and draw out what they think .. this is the whole idea.
I've put a card down on the table, time for someone else to put theirs down, and trump mine

I don't have a map to present. I can't fully defend Pangea, but there are hints that it is plausible.

 

[Sabertooth]

In the Garden of Gethsemene...

I was thinking more Golgotha.

 

[Sabertooth]

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed." Genesis 2:7-8 NKJV

Since God created Adam on dry land and, then, placed him Eden, Eden was not the name of all dry land, just a specific location (where a garden had been planted).

 

[Sabertooth]

I have a blog post about other interesting details gleaned about about Creation Week/Eden, etc.

Flash Points: Are There Two Conflicting ''Creation Stories'' in Genesis...?

 

[Sabertooth]

THAT video I keep quoting shows it all, including the first movements out of the water by Tictalic. a Crocodile..

I am a Kenotactic (which is a slight modification of YEC).