When did the Church which is Christs Body begin?

[Antonio39]

There are mainly three positions in dispensationalism that believe the church began in Acts 2, 9-13, or 28 which is yours, and why?

This will prepare us for a future study. See lessons. The purpose here is not to debate, but rather we all are trying to come to a better understanding of the truth of God's word, so while disagreement is fine, because in that we can learn much from each other's knowledge, this should be the attitude, because none of us has full understanding, and knows all, and like the apostle Paul said ...can understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing
(1Cor. 13:1)

 

[HTacianas]

There are mainly three positions in dispensationalism that believe the church began in Acts 2, 9-13, or 28 which is yours, and why?

This will prepare us for a future study.

The Church began on the day of Pentecost circa 33 AD. That is my position because it is the position the Church has always held.

 

[rturner76]

This is how I have understood how the keys of the kingdom were [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] to St Peter

In two key passages of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus leaves his Church with two great gifts. The first (Matthew 16:19) is addressed to St. Peter:

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The second (Matthew 18:1) is addressed to his disciples:

Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I think it's pretty straightforward. St Peter was passed the keys of the church and became the first Pope.

 

[Dan Perez]

There are mainly three positions in dispensationalism that believe the church began in Acts 2, 9-13, or 28 which is yours, and why?

This will prepare us for a future study.

This what I seen , and read as when the B O C BEGAN !!

#1 One said it began in the Garden of Eden .

#2 It began at Acts 2 .

#3 It began at Acts 9 a position that I hold .

#4 Then there are some n that hold a Acts 11 position

#5 Then there is the Acts 13 position .

#6 Then the Acts 28 position !

dan p

 

[Guojing]

There are mainly three positions in dispensationalism that believe the church began in Acts 2, 9-13, or 28 which is yours, and why?

This will prepare us for a future study.

You have to be more specific when you meant by the term "church". Do you mean called out assembly of believers or do you meant where Jews and gentiles are equal before Christ?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

There are mainly three positions in dispensationalism that believe the church began in Acts 2, 9-13, or 28 which is yours, and why?

This will prepare us for a future study.

The Church began when the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The Kingdom was in their midst. He is the Chief Cornerstone, the Apostels are the Foundation and the Old Testament Prophets gave prophetic proof . The power came on the Day of Pentecost when He made His Home in all belivers through His Holy Spirit. Blessings.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The church, as the body of Christ, began the day Jesus was raised from the dead and the spirits of all believers, were raised up together with Him. The body came up with the head, and that happened when God raised Him up and his body together with Him.

Ephesians 1:20-23 KJV
20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Ephesians 2:1-10 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Colossians 2:12-13 KJV
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 1:18 KJV
18. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This would mean that the instant God raised up Jesus from the dead, all of the righteous dead in "hell" were raised up with Him as members of His body. That was the birth of the church, His body, in the paradise portion of hell. The living believers on earth (disciples etc.) were born again that instant, as the original church on the earth. Not on Pentecost, but on resurrection day.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The church, as the body of Christ, began the day Jesus was raised from the dead and the spirits of all believers, were raised up together with Him. The body came up with the head, and that happened when God raised Him up and his body together with Him.

Ephesians 1:20-23 KJV
20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Ephesians 2:1-10 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Colossians 2:12-13 KJV
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 1:18 KJV
18. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This would mean that the instant God raised up Jesus from the dead, all of the righteous dead in "hell" were raised up with Him as members of His body. That was the birth of the church, His body, in the paradise portion of hell. The living believers on earth (disciples etc.) were born again that instant, as the original church on the earth. Not on Pentecost, but on resurrection day.

One more:

1 Corinthians 12:12-31 KJV
12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14. For the body is not one member, but many.
...
18. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19. And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20. But now are they many members, yet but one body.
...
27. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30. Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31. But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

How could I forget this one!!!!???

Ephesians 5:23-24 KJV
23. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

 

[Grafted In]

I thought this would be a good place to ask if these believers were Jesus's wave offering for First Fruits, perhaps given glorified bodies and taken to heaven when He went after His resurrection to apply His blood in the Holy of Holys.
I've always wondered about this.

Mathew chapter 27.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[sandman]

I thought this would be a good place to ask if these believers were Jesus's wave offering for First Fruits, perhaps given glorified bodies and taken to heaven when He went after His resurrection to apply His blood in the Holy of Holys.
I've always wondered about this.

Mathew chapter 27.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Those two verses 52 &53 are questionable …most likely added…as it disrupts the continuity. Reading verse 51 and going to 54 flows.

I have no proof of it being added, but there is a laundry list of problems with these two verses….which... unless you want it I won’t go into it.

One two major points for immediate consideration. No other gospels mention this event in fact no historical writing ever discuss anything about these great saints being raised and walking around ..one would think that would draw some attention.

Additionally, if someone was raised from the dead with a glorified and everlasting body before Jesus was, then that person would have been the “firstfruits from the dead,” and not Jesus.

It is possible that some graves were disturbed due to the earthquake ….but the major event in that section was the veil of the temple that was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

As for then going to heaven Jhn 3:13 declares…. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

 

[Grafted In]

I don't follow.
Please help me understand. Is Mathew 's Gospel not to be taken serious?
I quoted KJV. Is his account omitted in every other translation?

I kind of thought I ought not ask
the question. Should have continued to keep it to myself.

 

[Guojing]

I don't follow.
Please help me understand. Is Mathew 's Gospel not to be taken serious?
I quoted KJV. Is his account omitted in every other translation?

I kind of thought I ought not ask
the question. Should have continued to keep it to myself.

You added to the Matthew account when you claimed "perhaps given glorified bodies and taken to heaven"

Nothing in Matthew said anything close that.

They could have resurrected without glorified bodies like Lazarus, died again afterwards.

 

[Grafted In]

It was a question, not a proclamation.

 

[readywriter]

There are mainly three positions in dispensationalism that believe the church began in Acts 2, 9-13, or 28 which is yours, and why?

This will prepare us for a future study.

'That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,
may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
that ye may know what is the hope of His calling,
and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised him from the dead,
and set him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet,
and gave Him to be The Head over all things to the church,
Which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.'
(Ephesians 1:17-23)

Hello @Antonio39,

I believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ, began at Acts 28. My reasons being:-

1) The words of Acts 28:28.
2) The words of Acts 25-27.
3) The words of Paul to the Ephesians elders in Acts 20:17-38.
4) The words of Ephesians 3:8-12.
5) The epistles written by Paul from his imprisonment:- Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. All written post Acts 28.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[timothyu]

As Jesus said that the rock He would build His church upon was truth from the Father, not from man, it started the minute He began to teach that truth and people believed in the truth, His Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Dan Perez]

As Jesus said that the rock He would build His church upon was truth from the Father, not from man, it started the minute He began to teach and people believed in His Gospel of the Kingdom.

I say that the first questions should be !

#1 Who was the first person saved by GRACE OF GOD ? Acts 9:6 .

#2 Does the bible say , who is the PATTERN of the ONES coming to believe on him unto EVERLASTING LIFE , 1 Tim 1:16 .

#3 Then who was the one APOINTED to be THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES ?

#4 Who was the was the dispensation of the MYSTERY first given to , Rom 16:26 , for the OBEDIENCE of FAITH .

#5 Who was th ones that INFORMS all believers how all believers saved by GRACE re PLACED into the B O C , IN 1 Cor 12:13 .

#6 Who is the one that says WE ARE PART OF CHRIST , 1 Cor 12:9--27 and this is why I am Acts 9:6 , DISPENSATIONALIST .

dan p

 

[Halbhh]

#1 Who was the first person saved by GRACE OF GOD ?

Just in passing that caught my eye. King David would be such a very pronounced example, where he did really big, huge sins of great harm and seriousness, yet God forgave David in a amazing show of grace after David had finally repented in a more full/complete way.
But we can assume there were likely some before David. It's just that David is such a pronounced example. (e.g. Moses had an example and was before David of course)

 

[Dan Perez]

Just in passing that caught my eye. King David would be such a very pronounced example, where he did really big, huge sins of great harm and seriousness, yet God forgave David in a amazing show of grace after David had finally repented in a more full/complete way.
But we can assume there were likely some before David. It's just that David is such a pronounced example. (e.g. Moses had an example and was before David of course)

And Rom 9:18 really stands OUT . So then He will have MERCY on whom He will , and He HARDENS whom He wills .

dan p

 

[Guojing]

It was a question, not a proclamation.

So the answer to your question is, they resurrected in a form similar to Lazarus, and they died again after some time.

No first fruit, no glorified bodies, and no ascension to heaven.

 

[Antonio39]

Hello to my family in God thank you for your responses. I would like this to be a continued study which I will be writing, I want us to explore this truth with an open mind, patience with a collective spirit or learning.

One of the first tenets of dispensational theology is the particular call of the body of Christ apart from the nation of Israel. What I would like to do is first is establish Israel place, purpose, and inheritance in God's kingdom, and follow that in scripture, to when we exactly come to the call of the church which is Christ's body. I will be posting thit soon.

My question to all off the valid responses is what does scripture actually say about what constitutes the creation of the church which is Christ's body?