When Did Satan Fall From Heaven

The writer said:

Hovind points out this heresy

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The guy that spent 10 years in jail for fraud is going to point out heresy? I do not have anything against Hovind but I would be careful about trying to put him on a pedestal. I tried to warn him before he went to jail and he would not listen. Sometimes we all do things the hard way. Some of life's lessons are more difficult to learn than others.

juvenissun said:

Why does God tolerate satan at the time of Job?

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God gives us beauty for ashes and He makes all things beautiful in HIS TIME.

"He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end."Ecc3:11

Isaiah 61:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 To [a]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

juvenissun said:

Satan made Adam and Eve sin without having himself sinned, then what could make satan be kicked out of the Heaven?

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I suspect he wanted to make war in heaven. Very little scripture in the bible about Satan before he made Adam and Eve sin. From what is in scripture seems to imply that there was a power struggle in Heaven. Satan was an Angel yet a rather disruptive one as he caused other Angelic beings to rebel against god who were thrown out of heaven with him.

steve78 said:

I suspect he wanted to make war in heaven. Very little scripture in the bible about Satan before he made Adam and Eve sin. From what is in scripture seems to imply that there was a power struggle in Heaven. Satan was an Angel yet a rather disruptive one as he caused other Angelic beings to rebel against god who were thrown out of heaven with him.

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It seems I made that question long time ago. As I read my question again, the answer seems to be quite simple:

Satan was kicked out of Heaven when he sinned. What was that sin? It seems the Bible says that he wanted to challenge God on something only God can do. However, I am not sure what exactly was that. But, it does not matter, we are doing the similar, not just once, but all the time. So, it is quite understandable.

juvenissun said:

It seems I made that question long time ago. As I read my question again, the answer seems to be quite simple:

Satan was kicked out of Heaven when he sinned. What was that sin? It seems the Bible says that he wanted to challenge God on something only God can do. However, I am not sure what exactly was that. But, it does not matter, we are doing the similar, not just once, but all the time. So, it is quite understandable.

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Sin in a nutshell is just disobeying God. I think its more of a case that Satan thought he ought to be God and was prepared to wage war to seize the throne of heaven.

steve78 said:

Sin in a nutshell is just disobeying God. I think its more of a case that Satan thought he ought to be God and was prepared to wage war to seize the throne of heaven.

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See how much sin God can tolerate on Adam and Eve. Even satan has shown a slightest action of sin, he won't be allowed to stay in the Haven anymore. Satan certainly knows that. So either he hide his sin in 100%, or he would outburst his sinful act in 100%. This is what's described in the Revelations. Satan and his followers should be defeated by God in an instance. Imaging that. God is awesome.

It seems apparent that Satan was already on a downhill slope- the rebellion in Heaven likely happened well before Adam and Satan influencing man to fall was the straw that broke the camel's back.

steve78 said:

I suspect he wanted to make war in heaven. Very little scripture in the bible about Satan before he made Adam and Eve sin. From what is in scripture seems to imply that there was a power struggle in Heaven. Satan was an Angel yet a rather disruptive one as he caused other Angelic beings to rebel against god who were thrown out of heaven with him.

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One third of the angels follow him in his rebellion. Rev12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. I believe that one third of the people of earth will be saved and they will replace the angels to worship God.

Zechariah 13 8 "And in all the land,” declares the LORD, “two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’”

Rev12 7 "Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9 And the great dragon was hurled down—the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him"

Saintly Sinner said:

It seems apparent that Satan was already on a downhill slope- the rebellion in Heaven likely happened well before Adam and Satan influencing man to fall was the straw that broke the camel's back.

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Some people believe that this happened at the time Pangea broke up around 200 million years ago. When the dinosaurs began to attack and devour each other. We can to to places like Ghost Ranch in New Mexico and we see large groups of dinosaurs that perished in a great flood that took place at the time. Genesis 7:11 "on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened." The atmosphere was a lot more humid at the time of the dinosaurs. (They say the sky was pink not blue) Turtles and crocodiles are still alive today and they require a lot of water to survive. Also like the dinosaurs they both grow to be very big over time.

joshua 1 9 said:

One third of the angels follow him in his rebellion. Rev12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. I believe that one third of the people of earth will be saved and they will replace the angels to worship God.

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I be surprised even if one third of the earth gets saved.Mankind is just too evil and beyond redemption.

steve78 said:

I be surprised even if one third of the earth gets saved.Mankind is just too evil and beyond redemption.

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Remnant theology and the theory of evolution tells us that only 10% of the people will survive to repopulate the earth. The 1/3 is based on the belief that the aborted babies end up in Heaven and it will be our job to teach them when we get there.

Matthew19:14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

joshua 1 9 said:

Remnant theology and the theory of evolution tells us that only 10% of the people will survive to repopulate the earth. The 1/3 is based on the belief that the aborted babies end up in Heaven and it will be our job to teach them when we get there.

Matthew19:14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

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Survive what exactly.

The earth will be destroyed one day when our sun goes nova.

steve78 said:

Survive what exactly.

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There are two questions. What percent of the people go to Heaven and what percent of he worlds population will survive the Battle of Armageddon to begin the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Two popular numbers we find in the Bible are 10% and 1/3. Evolution ie science tells us that when there is a mass extinction then only 10% of the population will remain to repopulate the earth.

steve78 said:

I suspect he wanted to make war in heaven. Very little scripture in the bible about Satan before he made Adam and Eve sin. From what is in scripture seems to imply that there was a power struggle in Heaven. Satan was an Angel yet a rather disruptive one as he caused other Angelic beings to rebel against god who were thrown out of heaven with him.

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Satan DID NOT make Adam and Eve sin.
They CHOSE to sin.
Just like you and I.

What sin did Satan commit to be cast out of Heaven?

Answer: 100% PRIDE

This isn't to say he doesn't have access to Heaven nor the throne of God , but he definitely no longer resides there .
And one day he will not even have access.

Satan's head is crushed , and my Saviour's heal brusied.

Amen!
⚘

Treasurer said:

Luke 10
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

What do you make of this passage?

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Jesus does not say when He saw it. However, He never seems to discuss any specific experiences of His pre-incarnate existence, and there's no reason to think He's doing so here.

He may have seen it just that previous night. Or He may be speaking in prophesy.

We have to consider the uniqueness of Jesus. The concept is awesome. God becoming flesh--the concept of God Incarnate.

I don't think Satan had expected that--I don't think his understanding of the OT prophesies was any more accurate than that of the OT priests and scribes. I suspect Satan expected the Messiah to be a man on the order of David or Elijah. He may have thought Moses would be resurrected as the Messiah (there was something going on with the dispute he had with Michael over Moses' body).

I suspect Satan never expected that the Messiah would be God Incarnate.

And when he saw that happen, he must have wondered what it meant. He had successfully wrested control of the created dominion from Adam and all Adam's descendants. He had consigned them to physical death and separated their spirits from Heaven.

What exactly did God Incarnate mean in that situation? Did Satan now have power over God as he had over man? Was this some kind of capitulation? Satan's inquiring mind wanted to know.

So he had to test God Incarnate to find out. Upon testing, Satan discovered he had no power to subvert God Incarnate...but God Incarnate was yet physical, and being physical might be killed, and once killed would suffer the same separation from the Father as all other men before Him.

None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. -- 1 Corinthians 2:8

Somewhere in Satan's interaction with Jesus, he crossed a line he had not crossed before. He had actually attacked God, which had not been possible before God became flesh.

I suspect the war in Heaven might have occurred while Jesus was in the grave. Notice that it's Michael leading the angels of heaven--where is Jesus? But when Satan is cast out, his war then is with those who are covered with the blood of the Lamb, so that is post-crucifixion.

How often was Satan cast out of heaven? It could only have been once, and as MiamiTed has pointed out, Revelation 12 bounds the war in heaven between the birth of Jesus and at some point when or soon after "the blood of the Lamb" has been shed.

At some point within that time, Jesus "led captivity captive" and brought the spirits that had been separated by the grave to be with Him--likely only possible because Satan was no longer there to argue their guilt, only the Son to argue for the Father's mercy. The prosecutor had been thrown out of the courtroom.