When did God create hell/Tartarus?

Gen 1:2 is a clue.

Paul4JC said:

Gen 1:2 is a clue.

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I don't see that verse as a clue to the creation of hell or Tartarus. The verse says:

“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:2 NKJV)

So the earth is mentioned, and the water on the earth, also called "the deep" in the verse. Nothing about hell/Tartarus.

David Lamb said:

I don't see that verse as a clue to the creation of hell or Tartarus. The verse says:

“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:2 NKJV)

So the earth is mentioned, and the water on the earth, also called "the deep" in the verse. Nothing about hell/Tartarus.

Click to expand...

2 Yet the earth was invisible and unformed, and darkness was over the abyss, and a divine wind was being carried along over the water. NETS

Strong's Lexicon
tehom: Deep, abyss, depths, primeval ocean
Original Word: תְּהוֹם
Definition: Deep, abyss, depths, primeval ocean

Strong's Lexicon
abussos: Abyss, bottomless pit, deep
Original Word: ἄβυσσος
Definition: Abyss, bottomless pit, deep


"In our English Bibles, the Greek word abyssos [a [busso"] is transliterated as "abyss" (RSV "bottomless pit") in every instance except Romans 10:7, where it is translated "the deep." In the Septuagint abyssos [a [busso"] translates Tehom almost exclusively, but in rare instances ShuLam ( Isa 44:27 ), MeshuLam ( Job 41:22 ), and Racha ( Job 36:16 )."


The land was created out of the deep, abysmal waters.

[Gen 1:9-10 NASB20] 9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "earth," and the gathering of the waters He called "seas"; and God saw that it was good.

From Chaos to Order: the Hebrew Meaning of ‘Tohu Va-Vohu’ - hebrewversity

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Purposely, the Apostle Peter used the word Tartarus. Why? The word comes from Greek mythology. Tartarus is very much linked to the Abyss. It is in the Abyss or could be another word for Abyss.

Hesiod, Theogony (c. late 8th century BC) [713] And amongst the foremost Cottus and Briareos and Gyes insatiate for war raised fierce fighting: three hundred rocks, one upon another, they launched from their strong hands and overshadowed the Titans with their missiles, and buried them beneath the wide-pathed earth, and bound them in bitter chains when they had conquered them by their strength for all their great spirit, as far beneath the earth to Tartarus. For a brazen anvil falling down from heaven nine nights and days would reach the earth upon the tenth: and again, a brazen anvil falling from earth nine nights and days would reach Tartarus upon the tenth. Round it runs a fence of bronze, and night spreads in triple line all about it like a neck-circlet, while above grow the roots of the earth and unfruitful sea

This story is also very much related to 2 Peter 2:4 (and Jude 6) where he is alluding to 1 Enoch as he explains why Tartarus was created.

[2Pe 2:4 NASB20] 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment;

[Jde 1:6 NASB20] 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place, [these] He has kept in eternal restraints under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

1 Enoch 18:14 And there I beheld seven stars, like great blazing mountains, and like spirits entreating me. 15 Then the angel said, This place, until the consummation of heaven and earth, will be the prison of the stars, and the host of heaven. 16 The stars which roll over fire are those which transgressed the commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season Nickelsburg, George W.E.; VanderKam, James C.. 1 Enoch

Paul4JC said:

2 Yet the earth was invisible and unformed, and darkness was over the abyss, and a divine wind was being carried along over the water. NETS

Strong's Lexicon
tehom: Deep, abyss, depths, primeval ocean
Original Word: תְּהוֹם
Definition: Deep, abyss, depths, primeval ocean

Strong's Lexicon
abussos: Abyss, bottomless pit, deep
Original Word: ἄβυσσος
Definition: Abyss, bottomless pit, deep

Abyss Meaning - Bible Definition and References

Discover the meaning of Abyss in the Bible. Study the definition of Abyss with multiple Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopedias and find scripture references in the Old and New Testaments.

www.biblestudytools.com

"In our English Bibles, the Greek word abyssos [a [busso"] is transliterated as "abyss" (RSV "bottomless pit") in every instance except Romans 10:7, where it is translated "the deep." In the Septuagint abyssos [a [busso"] translates Tehom almost exclusively, but in rare instances ShuLam ( Isa 44:27 ), MeshuLam ( Job 41:22 ), and Racha ( Job 36:16 )."


The land was created out of the deep, abysmal waters.

[Gen 1:9-10 NASB20] 9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "earth," and the gathering of the waters He called "seas"; and God saw that it was good.

From Chaos to Order: the Hebrew Meaning of ‘Tohu Va-Vohu’ - hebrewversity

Looking to know Hebrew? There is a way of doing so in an enjoyable and fulfilling experience… Click Here and Learn More About From Chaos to Order: the Hebrew Meaning of ‘Tohu Va-Vohu’!

www.hebrewversity.com

Purposely, the Apostle Peter used the word Tartarus. Why? The word comes from Greek mythology. Tartarus is very much linked to the Abyss. It is in the Abyss or could be another word for Abyss.

Hesiod, Theogony (c. late 8th century BC) [713] And amongst the foremost Cottus and Briareos and Gyes insatiate for war raised fierce fighting: three hundred rocks, one upon another, they launched from their strong hands and overshadowed the Titans with their missiles, and buried them beneath the wide-pathed earth, and bound them in bitter chains when they had conquered them by their strength for all their great spirit, as far beneath the earth to Tartarus. For a brazen anvil falling down from heaven nine nights and days would reach the earth upon the tenth: and again, a brazen anvil falling from earth nine nights and days would reach Tartarus upon the tenth. Round it runs a fence of bronze, and night spreads in triple line all about it like a neck-circlet, while above grow the roots of the earth and unfruitful sea

This story is also very much related to 2 Peter 2:4 (and Jude 6) where he is alluding to 1 Enoch as he explains why Tartarus was created.

[2Pe 2:4 NASB20] 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment;

[Jde 1:6 NASB20] 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place, [these] He has kept in eternal restraints under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

1 Enoch 18:14 And there I beheld seven stars, like great blazing mountains, and like spirits entreating me. 15 Then the angel said, This place, until the consummation of heaven and earth, will be the prison of the stars, and the host of heaven. 16 The stars which roll over fire are those which transgressed the commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season Nickelsburg, George W.E.; VanderKam, James C.. 1 Enoch

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But the context of Genesis 1 indicates that the deep there means the waters that later were gathered together to form seas, not Tartarus:

“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:2 NKJV)

“Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry [land] appear"; and it was so. And God called the dry [land] Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that [it was] good.” (Ge 1:9-10 NKJV)

1 Enoch is not part of scripture.

David Lamb said:

But the context of Genesis 1 indicates that the deep there means the waters that later were gathered together to form seas, not Tartarus:

“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:2 NKJV)

“Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry [land] appear"; and it was so. And God called the dry [land] Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that [it was] good.” (Ge 1:9-10 NKJV)

1 Enoch is not part of scripture.

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Your repeating yourself. You don't get context from one verse, that's why we have 66 books. Give some cross references. In Genesis 1:2 you only see the deep as water covering the earth, you don't see how deep it may have been. Deep means deep.



The Hebrew Tehom can mean "the deep, but it can also mean "the abyss" which is in Greek abussos. Many versions call it the bottomless pit in Greek. (See Rev 9:2)

Sheol, for which the Greek word Hades comes, also can be defined as a pit. So all these are related.

[Job 11:8 NASB20] 8 "[They are as] high [as] the heavens; what can you do? Deeper than Sheol; what can you know?

Strong's Lexicon
amoq: Deep
Original Word: עָמֹק
Definition: Deep
Meaning: deep

So now we have two words meaning deep! So which word is correct for Genesis 1:2?

Sheol
Sheol (shee´ohl), a biblical term for the netherworld, in some respects the Hebrew counterpart of Hades and Tartarus. The etymology of the word is still in question, but “Sheol” probably derives from the verb “to ask or inquire” and thus refers to the realm of the dead as the place from which oracles were sought…
The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary (Revised and Updated), p 950



There are 3 realms and Jesus is Lord of them all.

[Phl 2:10 NIV] …at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

[Original Word: καταχθόνιος, ον Phonetic Spelling: (kat-akh-thon'-ee-os) Definition: under the earth]




Greek mythology is not part of scripture either, yet the Apostle Peter used it. Yes, we can ignore that too along with the fact he and Jude used 1 Enoch.

Still, we are only scratching the surface of Genesis 1:2.

Paul4JC said:

Your repeating yourself. You don't get context from one verse, that's why we have 66 books. Give some cross references. In Genesis 1:2 you only see the deep as water covering the earth, you don't see how deep it may have been. Deep means deep.

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Yes, but (at the risk of repeating myself again) the immediate context of Genesis 1:2, in other words, the surrounding verses, we are told what the deep is, indeed v2 itself talks of the waters. Then v9:

“Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.” (Ge 1:9 NKJV)

Incidentally, I didn't claim that we are told how deep.

David Lamb said:

Yes, but (at the risk of repeating myself again) the immediate context of Genesis 1:2, in other words, the surrounding verses, we are told what the deep is, indeed v2 itself talks of the waters. Then v9:

“Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.” (Ge 1:9 NKJV)

Incidentally, I didn't claim that we are told how deep.

Click to expand...

Tehom and mayim (the deep/abyss and the waters) are two distinct objects. That's why two different words are used. There is no tehom in Genesis 1:9.

Now to repeat myself: amoq means deep, so abyss is a better translation for the word tehom. It is rightly used in the NETS. The abyss and Tartarus could be one and the same place.

God didn't create hell. Hell is simply the rejection of God's grace and dwelling in sin.