What makes the green grass grow?

[habeas]

says the drill sgt. to the soldiers preparing to go to Iraq. The soldiers scream back: "Blood. Blood. Blood makes the green grass grow."

"What's the spirit of the bayonet?" the drill sergeant asks. The troops chant at the top of their lungs: "Kill. Kill. Kill without mercy."

I recently listened to several members of the organization, Iraq Veterans Against the War, testify at a subcommittee hearing before Congress. They told of horrible things which were done to civilian Iraqis, how they were murdered (or killed) on a broad scale or under vague and ever-changing and expanding orders to engage. They told of harrowing tales and one admitted to participating in war crimes.

But what really struck me is what they said about basic training, and how it conditioned them to be killing machines using chants such as the one above, along with exercises such as repeatedly stabbing a dummy with a bayonet.

Is this the way of Jesus, does this "conditioning" and do these chants glorify Him, the Prince of Peace?

Do they honor Jesus Christ who said, Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.... Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.... Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God, and who said, "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Matt. 5:6-9, 44
I think I prefer the following prayer:
“Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light, and where there is sadness, joy.” St. Francis of Assisi

 

[Faulty]

Yes, blessed are the peacemakers, but the purpose of the military is to wage and win wars. I'm not quite sure what you were expecting.

 

[habeas]

Yes, blessed are the peacemakers, but the purpose of the military is to wage and win wars. I'm not quite sure what you were expecting.

I didn't ask what the purpose of the military was, I asked does screaming,

"Blood. Blood. Blood makes the green grass grow," and chanting, "Kill. Kill. Kill without mercy," in reponse to the question, "What's the spirit of the bayonet?" ...and repeatedly stabbing dummys with a bayonet mounted on a rifle...

glorify the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, meek and lowly, my Saviour and Lord?

 

[the.Sheepdog]

speaking as one who has seen the elephant I can tell you true that anyone who has either killed or seen it is changed forever. It's painful also in the quiet times or at night in my bed. I am against war now. But I am even more against those things that are worse than war and worse than death. Their are things worse than death. I shall leave it to you to decide if defending the innocent or helpless gives glory to God or not.

 

[habeas]

speaking as one who has seen the elephant I can tell you true that anyone who has either killed or seen it is changed forever. It's painful also in the quiet times or at night in my bed. I am against war now. But I am even more against those things that are worse than war and worse than death. Their are things worse than death. I shall leave it to you to decide if defending the innocent or helpless gives glory to God or not.

I know there are things worth than death, like having the spirit of murder, and hatred, with which we will not enter the kingdom of God. This is why the thread is not about just war theory, but rather - the method of conditioning, the manufacturing of a man into a killing machine...and how that transforms him. "Kill, kill, kill without mercy," etc.

When one is chanting such things, and repeatedly stabbing dummys with bayonets, does it glorify the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ?

ETA: Thanks for at least not giving me a flippant response, but a thoughtful one. I am very grieved.

 

[Faulty]

I didn't ask what the purpose of the military was, I asked does screaming,

"Blood. Blood. Blood makes the green grass grow," and chanting, "Kill. Kill. Kill without mercy," in reponse to the question, "What's the spirit of the bayonet?" ...and repeatedly stabbing dummys with a bayonet mounted on a rifle...

glorify the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, meek and lowly, my Saviour and Lord?

No, which goes back to my point. That is not the purpose of the military so why would they be trained as such?

 

[Yekcidmij]

says the drill sgt. to the soldiers preparing to go to Iraq. The soldiers scream back: "Blood. Blood. Blood makes the green grass grow."

"What's the spirit of the bayonet?" the drill sergeant asks. The troops chant at the top of their lungs: "Kill. Kill. Kill without mercy."

Yep. Those lines are from movies. I saw them in Full Metal Jacket.

I recently listened to several members of the organization, Iraq Veterans Against the War, testify at a subcommittee hearing before Congress. They told of horrible things which were done to civilian Iraqis, how they were murdered (or killed) on a broad scale or under vague and ever-changing and expanding orders to engage. They told of harrowing tales and one admitted to participating in war crimes.

Here's some bad news: war crimes are not rampant in the military.

And guess what? Nobody is a robot. You obviously don't know anything about the UCMJ.

But what really struck me is what they said about basic training, and how it conditioned them to be killing machines using chants such as the one above, along with exercises such as repeatedly stabbing a dummy with a bayonet.

Yes. They train us to kill. Welcome to the concept of military. Sorry you don't like it (or us).

 

[nephilimiyr]

Is this the way of Jesus, does this "conditioning" and do these chants glorify Him, the Prince of Peace?

Interesting you should start this thread one day before Pearl Harbor day, and it is as I write this post.

No that conditioning and those chants don't glorify God but those men are being conditioned and trained to become soldiers, not choir boys. Perhaps the reason why you may see some of us give "flippant" responses is because some of us aren't that ignorant of what the military is about.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Here's some bad news: war crimes are not rampant in the military.

Yes that's very true but you and I know that that is exactly the picture those few Iraqi veterans wanted to paint.

 

[Elijah2]

Ah my dear sister, from an old veteran, we didn't need chants to kill, you kill or be killed. Take you choice? And in amongst all of that is our Lord Jesus Christ, so I am sorry my dear sister, I have no idea what point you are trying to prove. But, the Drill Sergeant as you call them was instilling discipline and teamship.

My teachers were WW2 and Korean veterans, and they never screamed at me to understand the difference between the right or wrong of war, but to condition me to protect myself and to protect my mates.

Sorry, missed your point.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I know there are things worth than death, like having the spirit of murder, and hatred, with which we will not enter the kingdom of God. This is why the thread is not about just war theory, but rather - the method of conditioning, the manufacturing of a man into a killing machine...and how that transforms him. "Kill, kill, kill without mercy," etc.

When one is chanting such things, and repeatedly stabbing dummys with bayonets, does it glorify the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ?

ETA: Thanks for at least not giving me a flippant response, but a thoughtful one. I am very grieved.

Your method of conditioning and manufacturing of a man into a killing machine theory based on chants and stabbing dummies is based on ignorance. War and battle, blood and guts, your friends dieing around you left and right, and total fear is what makes soldiers killing machines, and yes sometimes reckless killing machines, even to the point of war crimes killing machines.

 

[pdudgeon]

Your method of conditioning and manufacturing of a man into a killing machine theory based on chants and stabbing dummies is based on ignorance. War and battle, blood and guts, your friends dieing around you left and right, and total fear is what makes soldiers killing machines, and yes sometimes reckless killing machines, even to the point of war crimes killing machines.

agreed. there is a time for war and a time for peace. but the person who insists upon charging onto a battle field waving a flag of peace should expect what they receive---bullets from both sides of the conflict.

they are not necessarily wrong in what they say, but they have probably chosen an inappropriate time and method to speak the message.

 

[Optimax]

Never been in the military so I speak from a position of not having been there.

I do understand though that the training a soldier receives is designed to keep him alive in combat situations.

The conditioning is designed so that he reacts to threats from the enemy as a reflex without thinking.

A soldier without that conditioning would be counted among the first causalities, as the second he took to think was too long.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Optimax that is very true. I was in the USAF, so was not particularly a combat troop and never received "killer" training per se. I just was taught how to use an M16 and how to shoot instinctively. I only fired one shot during my war 30 some odd years ago. It was in defense at 30ft and I lived when the other guy did not. I didnt even realise I had done it but am glad I am here today. I was protecting my aircrew and myself. No war chants, no crazed killer screams, just a very afraid 18 year old airman. I hate that the young man on the other end died, but I am glad it was not me or my aircrew or aircraft.

 

[pgp_protector]

Been a few years since I was last in bootcamp for the USMC.
But I don't recall stabbing dummies.
Chanting Kill Kill Kill. (Though some of the chants about my gun and weapon might get me a warning on this site )

Yes the Military will train you how to kill with your hands , weapon, hand grenades (Believe it or not they actually have 2 Safety pins ), ect.
But what some don't seem to understand is the Military isn't the Church.
The Military isn't to train people how to worship Christ
The Military isn't there to praise the Lord.
The Military is there for the defense of the Nation.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

LOL! PGP you remind me about Claymore mines! On one side they said "This side towards enemy", and the early ones said on the other side: "Do not eat!"

Seems some ground pounders were breaking them apart and making a soup to get high on!!!!

 

[pgp_protector]

LOL! PGP you remind me about Claymore mines! On one side they said "This side towards enemy", and the early ones said on the other side: "Do not eat!"

Seems some ground pounders were breaking them apart and making a soup to get high on!!!!

I didn't hear about the soup, but I did know that C-4 makes a great cooking fire.

(That and an MRE Coffee Creamer & Sugar packet cookies {I need to try them again})

 

[nephilimiyr]

Never been in the military so I speak from a position of not having been there.

I do understand though that the training a soldier receives is designed to keep him alive in combat situations.

The conditioning is designed so that he reacts to threats from the enemy as a reflex without thinking.

A soldier without that conditioning would be counted among the first causalities, as the second he took to think was too long.

That's very true but all the best conditioning and training sometimes doesn't prepare you for what happens in battle or tells you how you will react.

I was both in the Army and National Guard and when I first got in there was still a few men who fought in Vietnam in service and one of my favorite memories was sitting around listening to their stories. The biggest lesson I recieved was that when the bullets start flying is when you learn who you can count on.

A new recruit in boot camp can be the fastest learner, the best soldier, the toughest, meanest guy, the loudest shouter of kill, kill, kill!!! A real hard charger but then turn out to be the biggest coward on the battle field and the least person you can count on when the bullets start flying. I've heard that time and time again.

 

[pdudgeon]

That's very true but all the best conditioning and training sometimes doesn't prepare you for what happens in battle or tells you how you will react.

I was both in the Army and National Guard and when I first got in there was still a few men who fought in Vietnam in service and one of my favorite memories was sitting around listening to their stories. The biggest lesson I recieved was that when the bullets start flying is when you learn who you can count on.

A new recruit in boot camp can be the fastest learner, the best soldier, the toughest, meanest guy, the loudest shouter of kill, kill, kill!!! A real hard charger but then turn out to be the biggest coward on the battle field and the least person you can count on when the bullets start flying. I've heard that time and time again.

quote for truth.

 

[pinetree]

Never been in the military,but common sense would dictate that if you are fighting an enemy who would enjoy cutting of your head,my advice is... on the battlefield,is to be like this!