What "lust" really means .

[biblestudy123]

I’ve seen the word “Lust” used incorrectly many times in these forums. Lets look at the original Greek meaning of the word as used in the New Testament:

<A-1,Noun,1939,epithumia>
denotes "strong desire" of any kind, the various kinds being frequently specified by some adjective (see below). The word is used of a good desire only in Luke 22:15; Phil. 1:23; 1 Thess. 2:17. Everywhere else it has a bad sense. In Rom. 6:12 the injunction against letting sin reign in our mortal body to obey the "lust" thereof, refers to those evil desires which are ready to express themselves in bodily activity. They are equally the "lusts" of the flesh, Rom. 13:14; Gal. 5:16,24; Eph. 2:3; 2 Pet. 2:18; 1 John 2:16, a phrase which describes the emotions of the soul, the natural tendency towards things evil. Such "lusts" are not necessarily base and immoral, they may be refined in character, but are evil if inconsistent with the will of God.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical words tells us that lust simply means strong desire.
Copy and paste this link to see more: http://www.mf.no/bibelprog/vines?word=¯t0001723


“Lust” DOES NOT mean nor translate to Sexual thoughts or Masturbation.

At times he can mean to covet as in coveting another man’s wife like in Matt 5:28 when used in a negative sense.
<B-1,Verb,1937,epithumeo>
akin to A, No. 1, has the same twofold meaning as the noun, namely (a) "to desire," used of the Holy Spirit against the flesh, Gal. 5:17 (see below); of the Lord Jesus, Luke 22:15, "I have desired;" of the holy angels, 1 Pet. 1:12; of good men, for good things, Matt. 13:17; 1 Tim. 3:1; Heb. 6:11; of men, for things without moral quality, Luke 15:16; 16:21; 17:22; Rev. 9:6; (b) of "evil desires," in respect of which it is translated "to lust" in Matt. 5:28; 1 Cor. 10:6; Gal. 5:17 (1st part; see below); Jas. 4:2; to covet, Acts 20:23; Rom. 7:7; 13:9. See COVET, DESIRE, B, No. 2.

 

[Piedpiper123]

Translation between languages is always a challenge. One problem is that words in the first language often do not have an exact equivalence in the second language. This issue is exagerated in attempts at word for word translations. &#949;&#956;&#953;&#952;&#965;&#956;&#943;&#945; is a typical example. It can mean desire, strong desire, passion, covetousness and lust. It is the translators work to assess which is the most appropriate word to use based on the context of the word used. So when &#949;&#956;&#953;&#952;&#965;&#956;&#943;&#945; is used the translator will determine among other things whether its use is negative or positive. For example: in Matt 5:28 the context of the word is in looking at a woman in a way that causes the person to commit mental adultery. In this case the translator can chose lust as that is a word in English that can mean to strongly desire in an inappropriate sexual way.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Please answer the question . ..

How can one touch without also at the same time lusting after another in one's immagination, either real or imagined?


.

 

[mcart909]

The Bible does not forbid single people from fantasizing about having sexual relations.

 

[biblestudy123]

Please answer the question . ..

How can one touch without also at the same time lusting after another in one's immagination, either real or imagined?


.

Read the def. of Lust.
You have been taught that Lust means sexual thoughts and is aways used negativly. But to Lust is to have strong desire. Most of the time it is use in a negative sense but you can also have strong desires for good things, right? To have a strong desire is not a sin. But if you have a strong desire so evil, such as stealing another mans wife, that is a sin.
Concerning masturbation the question should be can one touch without having sexual thoughts?
But since this thread is about Lust i'd recommend starting a new thread where you ask if sexual thoughts are wrong.
hope that helps.

 

[BigMike835]

Yeah, again, I think this is splitting hairs. The term "lust" is used for non-sexual deep and powerful desires often enough in English ("lust for money", "lust for power", etc.). It only came to mainly mean anything sexual because of how often all things sexual are focused on, demonized and considered shameful.

I think this isn't one of those ones that is subject to interpretation, though. Just about everyone agrees that lust of a sexual nature IS a sin.

David and Bathsheeba anyone?

 

[thereselittleflower]

The Bible does not forbid single people from fantasizing about having sexual relations.

If a man lusts in his heart after a woman he has already committed adultery with her . .

The concept is that adultery is not simply an issue of actually engaging in the sexual act, but even entertaining the idea.

That concept translates easily to fornication. Jesus could just as easily have said he who lusts after a woman commits fornicaiton (if he had been speaking of unmarried women).

Your argument is very, very weak and flies in the face of reason and simply, logical common sense.

Your logic would have us saying that because the bible does not specifically mention the Trinity, there is no Trinity . . .. .

That is arguing from silence. Which, as has been shown above, here is nothing more than a logical fallacy.


.

 

[dayhiker]

There is anaspect ot lust and adultery in Bible times that is totally ignored today. I thought I'd post this information.

I did this studied the Greek word that is translated lust in Mt.5:28. Not that I&#8217;m a Greek scholar.
Jesus used the same Greek word when He said He desired to have communion with the disciples at the Last Supper. The Greek word is used 13x in the NT and of those 13 times 7 are good desires and 6 are bad desires.

The Mt.5:28 reference is one of the bad references. The context is Jesus is discussing adultery. I believe Jesus is saying that if you desire to commit adultery you are sinning just as if you actually committed adultery. Now time has changed the definition of adultery from what it was in the Bible. In most of history marriage wasn't for love but for political and economic purposes. A father was to protect and feed his family and at the end of his life have an heir to pass on the wealth he had created. It was a shame if he couldn't do this and his whole clan would be demoted in the eyes of the community if he failed in this.

One of the main tools he has to raise his position and there for his influence in the community was to married his son to virgin of a family that would mutual benefit both families. This daughter was to produce a male heir that was of the blood of her husband. This was guaranteed by her being a virgin on the wedding night. The sheet with the blood from the broken hymen was the proof of this. The sheet kept by her mother as verification that this was true. The sheet was valid evidence before the city elders if the brides virtue was ever brought into question.

Now adultery was defined as a man having sex with another man's wife. Or as a wife breaking the wedding covenant. Both of these definitions come straight from the OT. This definition say that a married man could have sex with other woman: a second wife, a concubine (wife from a lower class usually) and a handmaiden (slave, even lower class). This is because it was thru the wife that the covenant with the other family was maintained. If she had sex with an other man than her husband the covenant with the other family was broken and so the economic and political ties were broken and the family lost some of its wealth and influence.

So when Jesus say if your coveting (lusting after) a married woman you are desiring to take from that family their means of continuing to advance themselves in their community. If the coveting is fulfilled you are bringing into question who&#8217;s the heir&#8217;s father is. The adulterer are attacking that family just as surly as if you are attacking with a military to take way their livelihood.

So you can see their isn&#8217;t much in common with how adultery was defined in Bible times and how it is defined in our society today. Clearly if a man seduces a wife and hurts a marriage that is sinful and can have much the same result as in Bible times.

But where consenting adults enjoy sex and there is no intent in their heart and action taken to undermine the marriage relationship there is no adultery in my opinion.

Gee, if you read thru all that, your doing good.
dayhiker

 

[BigMike835]

There is anaspect ot lust and adultery in Bible times that is totally ignored today. I thought I'd post this information.

I did this studied the Greek word that is translated lust in Mt.5:28. Not that I’m a Greek scholar.
Jesus used the same Greek word when He said He desired to have communion with the disciples at the Last Supper. The Greek word is used 13x in the NT and of those 13 times 7 are good desires and 6 are bad desires.

The Mt.5:28 reference is one of the bad references. The context is Jesus is discussing adultery. I believe Jesus is saying that if you desire to commit adultery you are sinning just as if you actually committed adultery. Now time has changed the definition of adultery from what it was in the Bible. In most of history marriage wasn't for love but for political and economic purposes. A father was to protect and feed his family and at the end of his life have an heir to pass on the wealth he had created. It was a shame if he couldn't do this and his whole clan would be demoted in the eyes of the community if he failed in this.

One of the main tools he has to raise his position and there for his influence in the community was to married his son to virgin of a family that would mutual benefit both families. This daughter was to produce a male heir that was of the blood of her husband. This was guaranteed by her being a virgin on the wedding night. The sheet with the blood from the broken hymen was the proof of this. The sheet kept by her mother as verification that this was true. The sheet was valid evidence before the city elders if the brides virtue was ever brought into question.

Now adultery was defined as a man having sex with another man's wife. Or as a wife breaking the wedding covenant. Both of these definitions come straight from the OT. This definition say that a married man could have sex with other woman: a second wife, a concubine (wife from a lower class usually) and a handmaiden (slave, even lower class). This is because it was thru the wife that the covenant with the other family was maintained. If she had sex with an other man than her husband the covenant with the other family was broken and so the economic and political ties were broken and the family lost some of its wealth and influence.

So when Jesus say if your coveting (lusting after) a married woman you are desiring to take from that family their means of continuing to advance themselves in their community. If the coveting is fulfilled you are bringing into question who’s the heir’s father is. The adulterer are attacking that family just as surly as if you are attacking with a military to take way their livelihood.

So you can see their isn’t much in common with how adultery was defined in Bible times and how it is defined in our society today. Clearly if a man seduces a wife and hurts a marriage that is sinful and can have much the same result as in Bible times.

But where consenting adults enjoy sex and there is no intent in their heart and action taken to undermine the marriage relationship there is no adultery in my opinion.

Gee, if you read thru all that, your doing good.
dayhiker

...so are you proposing that pre-marital sex isn't a sin afterall?

 

[mcart909]

If a man lusts in his heart after a woman he has already committed adultery with her . .

If a married man pursues sexual relations with a woman, or a man pursues sexual relations with a married woman, he has committed adultery. This is the correct interpretation of that verse, in my opinion.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I’ve seen the word “Lust” used incorrectly many times in these forums. Lets look at the original Greek meaning of the word as used in the New Testament:

<A-1,Noun,1939,epithumia>
denotes "strong desire" of any kind, the various kinds being frequently specified by some adjective (see below). The word is used of a good desire only in Luke 22:15; Phil. 1:23; 1 Thess. 2:17. Everywhere else it has a bad sense. In Rom. 6:12 the injunction against letting sin reign in our mortal body to obey the "lust" thereof, refers to those evil desires which are ready to express themselves in bodily activity. They are equally the "lusts" of the flesh, Rom. 13:14; Gal. 5:16,24; Eph. 2:3; 2 Pet. 2:18; 1 John 2:16, a phrase which describes the emotions of the soul, the natural tendency towards things evil. Such "lusts" are not necessarily base and immoral, they may be refined in character, but are evil if inconsistent with the will of God.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical words tells us that lust simply means strong desire.
Copy and paste this link to see more: http://www.mf.no/bibelprog/vines?word=¯t0001723


“Lust” DOES NOT mean nor translate to Sexual thoughts or Masturbation.

At times he can mean to covet as in coveting another man’s wife like in Matt 5:28 when used in a negative sense.
<B-1,Verb,1937,epithumeo>
akin to A, No. 1, has the same twofold meaning as the noun, namely (a) "to desire," used of the Holy Spirit against the flesh, Gal. 5:17 (see below); of the Lord Jesus, Luke 22:15, "I have desired;" of the holy angels, 1 Pet. 1:12; of good men, for good things, Matt. 13:17; 1 Tim. 3:1; Heb. 6:11; of men, for things without moral quality, Luke 15:16; 16:21; 17:22; Rev. 9:6; (b) of "evil desires," in respect of which it is translated "to lust" in Matt. 5:28; 1 Cor. 10:6; Gal. 5:17 (1st part; see below); Jas. 4:2; to covet, Acts 20:23; Rom. 7:7; 13:9. See COVET, DESIRE, B, No. 2.

amen

 

[A Brother In Christ]

The Bible does not forbid single people from fantasizing about having sexual relations.

Gal 5:19-21 notice these are not fruits from the Spirit

 

[biblestudy123]

If a married man pursues sexual relations with a woman, or a man pursues sexual relations with a married woman, he has committed adultery. This is the correct interpretation of that verse, in my opinion.
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Close.
The part about a man pursuing sexual relations with a married women is correct.

 

[biblestudy123]

If a married man pursues sexual relations with a woman, or a man pursues sexual relations with a married woman, he has committed adultery. This is the correct interpretation of that verse, in my opinion.
[/color][/size][/color][/font]

Close.
The part about a man pursuing sexual relations with a married women is correct.

 

[intricatic]

If a married man pursues sexual relations with a woman, or a man pursues sexual relations with a married woman, he has committed adultery. This is the correct interpretation of that verse, in my opinion.
[/color][/size][/color][/font]

Isn't that trying to reduce a statement about internal condition into a statement about legal restriction?

Jesus took a legal restriction and expanded it into the realm of internal condition here - the reverse process destroys the message in the text. I mean that both in a theological perspective, and a purely moral perspective.

7 "Why should I forgive you?
Your children have forsaken me
and sworn by gods that are not gods.
I supplied all their needs,
yet they committed adultery
and thronged to the houses of prostitutes.
8 They are well-fed, lusty stallions,
each neighing for another man's wife.
9 Should I not punish them for this?"
declares the LORD.
"Should I not avenge myself
on such a nation as this?
10 "Go through her vineyards and ravage them,
but do not destroy them completely.
Strip off her branches,
for these people do not belong to the LORD.
11 The house of Israel and the house of Judah
have been utterly unfaithful to me,"
declares the LORD.
(Jeremiah 5)

Or to actually clarify this point...

16"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law. 18"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
(Luke 16)

1 "If a man divorces his wife
and she leaves him and marries another man,
should he return to her again?
Would not the land be completely defiled?
But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers—
would you now return to me?"
declares the LORD.
(Jeremiah 3)

6 During the reign of King Josiah, the LORD said to me, "Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there. 7 I thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it. 8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. 9 Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. 10 In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense," declares the LORD. 11 The LORD said to me, "Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah. 12 Go, proclaim this message toward the north:
" 'Return, faithless Israel,' declares the LORD,
'I will frown on you no longer,
for I am merciful,' declares the LORD,
'I will not be angry forever.

(Jeremiah 3)

Even a person who is not married can commit adultery against God by worshiping false idols. Even a person who isn't a Christian. Even a person who's not married can commit adultery by indulging in sexual relationships outside of marriage. It's forgivable, but the point is that it is not simply an arbitrary legal construct, but a rich statement about humanity in general.

 

[davedjy]

Is this yet another way to justify premarital sex (fornication)? *passes out*

 

[Chie]

I’ve seen the word “Lust” used incorrectly many times in these forums. Lets look at the original Greek meaning of the word as used in the New Testament:

<A-1,Noun,1939,epithumia>
denotes "strong desire" of any kind, the various kinds being frequently specified by some adjective (see below). The word is used of a good desire only in Luke 22:15; Phil. 1:23; 1 Thess. 2:17. Everywhere else it has a bad sense. In Rom. 6:12 the injunction against letting sin reign in our mortal body to obey the "lust" thereof, refers to those evil desires which are ready to express themselves in bodily activity. They are equally the "lusts" of the flesh, Rom. 13:14; Gal. 5:16,24; Eph. 2:3; 2 Pet. 2:18; 1 John 2:16, a phrase which describes the emotions of the soul, the natural tendency towards things evil. Such "lusts" are not necessarily base and immoral, they may be refined in character, but are evil if inconsistent with the will of God.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical words tells us that lust simply means strong desire.
Copy and paste this link to see more: http://www.mf.no/bibelprog/vines?word=¯t0001723


“Lust” DOES NOT mean nor translate to Sexual thoughts or Masturbation.

At times he can mean to covet as in coveting another man’s wife like in Matt 5:28 when used in a negative sense.
<B-1,Verb,1937,epithumeo>
akin to A, No. 1, has the same twofold meaning as the noun, namely (a) "to desire," used of the Holy Spirit against the flesh, Gal. 5:17 (see below); of the Lord Jesus, Luke 22:15, "I have desired;" of the holy angels, 1 Pet. 1:12; of good men, for good things, Matt. 13:17; 1 Tim. 3:1; Heb. 6:11; of men, for things without moral quality, Luke 15:16; 16:21; 17:22; Rev. 9:6; (b) of "evil desires," in respect of which it is translated "to lust" in Matt. 5:28; 1 Cor. 10:6; Gal. 5:17 (1st part; see below); Jas. 4:2; to covet, Acts 20:23; Rom. 7:7; 13:9. See COVET, DESIRE, B, No. 2.

Lust is any intense desire or craving for self gratification. Lust can mean strictly sexual lust, although it is also common to speak of a "lust for life", "lust for blood (bloodlust for short)", or a "lust for power" or other goals.
As a moral term, lust implies a sexual desire for its own sake, an erotic arousal and wish, or intense physical or sexual attraction or craving. It is a sin in some religions such as Christianity when it is an excess or inappropriately directed sexual desire (e.g. non-procreative, unsanctioned, or egocentric sexual desire), and is one of the seven deadly sins, as a sin of excess. The Greek word which translates as lust is epithimia (&#949;&#960;&#953;&#952;&#965;&#956;&#953;&#945, which also is translated into English as "to covet".

 

[biblestudy123]

Lust is any intense desire or craving for self gratification. Lust can mean strictly sexual lust, although it is also common to speak of a "lust for life", "lust for blood (bloodlust for short)", or a "lust for power" or other goals.
As a moral term, lust implies a sexual desire for its own sake, an erotic arousal and wish, or intense physical or sexual attraction or craving. It is a sin in some religions such as Christianity when it is an excess or inappropriately directed sexual desire (e.g. non-procreative, unsanctioned, or egocentric sexual desire), and is one of the seven deadly sins, as a sin of excess. The Greek word which translates as lust is epithimia (&#949;&#960;&#953;&#952;&#965;&#956;&#953;&#945, which also is translated into English as "to covet".

Where are you getting your def. from?
Could you please post it along with the source. thanks

 

[Chie]

Where are you getting your def. from?
Could you please post it along with the source. thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lust
sorry for not posting this before hand.

 

[overit]

If a man lusts in his heart after a woman he has already committed adultery with her . .

The concept is that adultery is not simply an issue of actually engaging in the sexual act, but even entertaining the idea.

That concept translates easily to fornication. Jesus could just as easily have said he who lusts after a woman commits fornicaiton (if he had been speaking of unmarried women).

Your argument is very, very weak and flies in the face of reason and simply, logical common sense.

Your logic would have us saying that because the bible does not specifically mention the Trinity, there is no Trinity . . .. .

That is arguing from silence. Which, as has been shown above, here is nothing more than a logical fallacy.


.

Oh gosh, here we go again. YOU ASSUME that Jesus says that but, for some reason he didn't say that. He specifically connected it to adultery, and not all lust-sexual thoughts are sinful or condemned. People's asumption that all lust/sexual thoughts is sinful is just that, an assumption, not Biblical truth.