What is the difference between Pentecostal & Charismatic?

[godson777]

What are the differing beliefs, practices, mindsets, emphasises etc between the two?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What are the differing beliefs, practices, mindsets, emphasises etc between the two?

Having taugh Pentacostal teachings in the COGOP, I found that the Pentacostals have a number of teachings that present "difficulties" to charismatics.
The main ones are:
The progression of a believers spiritual progress:
Repentance>Regeneration>Justification>Sanctification(as a second act of grace)>Holiness>Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Alpine]

Pentecostals have their own fellowships

Whereas charismatics can be found in all denominations.

Both believe the gifts of the spirit are still for today.

 

[Jesusong]

Having taugh Pentacostal teachings in the COGOP, I found that the Pentacostals have a number of teachings that present "difficulties" to charismatics.
The main ones are:
The progression of a believers spiritual progress:
Repentance>Regeneration>Justification>Sanctification(as a second act of grace)>Holiness>Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I'm not too sure of the comment about sanctification as a second act of grace. The Assemblies of God position is this:

Salvation is not the end of a Christian's spiritual growth. Although we are declared holy or sanctified at salvation, there is still much spiritual growth to be experienced. As the believer submits himself to the work of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, he is progressively transformed toward a divine nature, like that of Christ. This doctrine is important because too many Christians stop growing spiritually after salvation, or even after entry into a Spirit-filled life at Baptism. But God's design for each believer is that the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22,23), and the character traits of a Christ-like life, be more obvious each day.

-Assemblies of God, "Our 16 Doctrinres" - A Paraphrased Version, Statements of Fundamental Truths, Doctrine 9 "Sanctification" pg. 12

 

[Questioning Christian]

The Charismatic Creed

Article I. We, the Charismatics, affirm that homosexuality, adultery, financial scandal, and heresy are certain and telling signs that one is called to ministry, because if the person wasn't fighting Satan, he wouldn't be fighting them.
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Article II. We, the Charismatics, affirm that no meeting is complete until at least one person is grabbed by the neck and shoved to the floor.
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Article III. We, the Charismatics, affirm that thought and intelligence were introduced by Satan to hinder the move of God, and that the human brain was included by God as part of the curse of the fall.
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Article IV. We, the Charismatics, affirm that we have the Holy Spirit on a leash. When we say, "bark", he says, "How loud?"
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Article V. We, the Charismatics, affirm that nothing exists until it has been verbalized.
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Article VI. We, the Charismatics, affirm that church is a game show.
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Article VII. We, the Charismatics, affirm that people who disagree with us get cancer.
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Article VIII. We, the Charismatics, affirm that we knew of every world event before it happened, which we acknowledged after it happened.
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Article IX. We, the Charismatics, affirm that if you didn't get healed, you lack faith, have secret sin, or didn't drop enough dollars in the basket. If the leader didn't get healed, it was the attack of the devil.
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Article X. We, the Charismatics, affirm that our sins are "the devil", while yours are "the flesh".

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The Pentecostal Creed

Article I. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that your church building must be a cubic lime-green cinderblock building with a trashy gravel parking lot and a 1-BTU air conditioning window unit propped up by a two-by-four. Your church yard must be overgrown with shrubbery that obscures the church walls. Your church building must have those tiny little square, opaque windows [1 foot X 1 foot in dimension]. There must be an ever-present puddle of water immediately behind the building. Your car must be no newer that fifteen years old. That your pews must have the stuffing coming out and be stained by communion juice. That your sound system must sound like you’re broadcasting from a Folgers’ coffee can. Your bathrooms must contain at least one always-overflowing toilet and have no stall door but a curtain and that your hymnbooks have all the covers broken or ripped off.




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Article II. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that if the world turns left, we turn right; if the world grows their hair, we cut ours off; if the world goes to movies/theater/concerts/dancing and other FUN entertainment, we sit at home and listen to Lester Roloff reruns on AM radio; if the world gets a computer and goes on the internet, we send a pigeon out with a message tied to his leg and wait for his return; if the world wears makeup/gets their hair done/dresses fashionably, we wear no makeup, put our hair in a bun, and wear a flour-sack dress.
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Article III. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that the Holy Spirit did not introduce the move of God; WE did, on Azusa Street in Los Angeles, California in 1906.
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Article IV. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that if one of our preachers succeeds, we were the ones responsible for that success, and that if he/she fails, it's their fault.
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Article V. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that jewelry is evil, because "gold" is a ripoff of "god".
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Article VI. We, the Pentecostals, affirm the fight against education tooth-and-nail, yet send our kids to public schools and maintain strong "Christian" universities, where the students learn "Greek", "Hebrew", "homiletics", "hermeneutics", and other evils, and produce educated people such as John Ashcroft.
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Article VII. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that technological advances are responsible for souls being damned to hell, because their eyes are off God and on technology.
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Article VIII. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that the women's choir must sound like clucking hens answering a rooster's crow.
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Article IX. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that when we pray in a prayer circle, it must resemble a bunch of brokers on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
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Article X. We, the Pentecostals, affirm that we must take a huge offering for the traveling evangelist, and pay the "day-in, day-out" pastor chump change.

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[godson777]

I see your point Questioning Christian, but can we please remain objective in our responses. Thankyou.

 

[victoryword]

What are the differing beliefs, practices, mindsets, emphasises etc between the two?

Godson777

You always ask good questions that provoke thought (I'm only sorry that people like QC have to take it as an opportunity for bashing others). Anyway, I want to share how I understand the differences though I have called myself a Charismatic and a Pentecostal at different times (depends on my mood I guess )

As Alpine stated, Pentecostals have their own fellowships, whereas charismatics can be found in all denominations. The Pentecostal MOvement began at the turn of the last century with the teachings of Charles Parham (a KKK sympathizer) and William J Seymour, an African American. Before then, a pastor named Edwards Irving had read the Bible and discovered that speaking in tongues was for today. But due to horrible persecution and excesses, his ministry diminished. But he planted the first seeds that would later lead to Parham and Seymour being used by God to bring in the Pentecostal movement.

While the divine healing movement before it was discovering that God still healed today, they had not yet fully recovered all truth. Pentecostals discovered that tongues were just as much for today as divine healing. The revival came in and was blessed. However, division came in among the Pentecostals and they started forming denominations (Church of God in Christ, Assemblies of God, Church of God, United Pentecostals, Apostolic Pentecostals, etc.) The one thing they all held in common was that tongues was available for everyone. They unfortunately thought that God would only give it to them.

God proved them wrong in the early sixties through an episcopal rector named Dennis Bennett. God gave him the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and he spoke in tongues. The fire began spreading into different denominations - Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc. (Think about our resident Catholic on this forum, Father Rick).

Unfortunately, most denominations held on to their long-held traditions and beliefs and just simply added the gifts to their beliefs. Furthermore, because of such a conflagaration of beliefs among denominations, some compromises began to set in. One the main ones that started to set Pentecostals and Charismatics apart is that many Charismatics began to teach that tongues is NOT the initial physical evidence of the Holy Spirit. Many Third Wavers strongly hold to this belief today. Some Charismatics even started holding to the belief tha the gifts were valid for today as a doctrinal belief but they were not practicing them and were being critical of those who did. I am sometimes amazed at those who claim to be Charismatic but have never spoke in tongues, prophesied, laid hands on the sick, etc.

Anyway, a lot of this is unacceptable to the average Pentecostal who holds to the beliefs that the early Pentecostals did. So basically those are some of your differences. Penetcostals have their own denominations. Charismatcis are cross denominational or have formed new denominations (Calvary Chapel, Rhema, Vinyeard, etc.) Pentecostals believe that tongues is the initial physical evidence of Holy Spirit baptism. Many Charismatics do not though they affirm the validity of gifts for today.

Okay enough history lesson. Glad I got that out of my system

 

[edin]

excellent post, victoryword. tks!!!! God bless!!

 

[Questioning Christian]

Uh, excuse me; there is a difference between bashing and humor. Yeah, "some people have to take it as an opportunity for bashing others", and you could also say that some people don't know how to take a joke.

 

[Alpine]

Uh, excuse me; there is a difference between bashing and humor. Yeah, "some people have to take it as an opportunity for bashing others", and you could also say that some people don't know how to take a joke.

Yeah, I got the joke, though those types of pentecostal churches don't really seem to exist up here, most seem to have really nice buildings with great parking lots. However, when visiting relatives in Kentucky I have seen churches like those

 

[godson777]

Thanks Victoryword!

You said that the Charismatics formed a denomination called "Rhema" - sounds familiar!
Is this a denomination afiliated with the Word of Faith movement?

 

[Father Rick]

Thanks Victoryword!

You said that the Charismatics formed a denomination called "Rhema" - sounds familiar!
Is this a denomination afiliated with the Word of Faith movement?

Actually, Rhema is not a denomination but the name of a Bible school in Tulsa, Oklahoma that was founded by Kenneth Hagin who was one of the leaders in the WoF movement until his death a year or so ago. While there are churches called "Rhema churches" that just means they are pastored by a Rhema Bible School graduate.

 

[onelamb]

Most Pentecostal churches do not adhere to the WOF teaching-many Charismatic churches do. Pentecostal churches have united under a set of "core" beliefs ie http://ag.org/top/beliefs/truths_condensed.cfm

 

[edin]

hi questioning christian, i read your post, and i guess i am confused. is this ONLY to joke re denominations/ beliefs?? it is hard to always understand what is written cuz we cant see faces, expressions when writing on a thread. our words can seem one-domensional, etc.

tks.

 

[Father Rick]

Most Pentecostal churches do not adhere to the WOF teaching-many Charismatic churches do. Pentecostal churches have united under a set of "core" beliefs ie http://ag.org/top/beliefs/truths_condensed.cfm

OneLamb...

The link you gave is to the beliefs of the Assemblies of God. While the AoG is the largest Pentecostal denomination, but there are many different Pentecostal groups. Other than the AoG, the other sizeable ones include Church of the Foursquare Gospel (Jack Hayford is Foursquare), Church of God (Cleveland, TN), and the Church of God in Christ (predominately African-American). Each of these groups have their own standards of beliefs-- most of which are similar to each other.

There are also groups such as the United Pentecostal Church, which is "Oneness"-- meaning they deny the Trinity.

 

[victoryword]

Actually, Rhema is not a denomination but the name of a Bible school in Tulsa, Oklahoma that was founded by Kenneth Hagin who was one of the leaders in the WoF movement until his death a year or so ago. While there are churches called "Rhema churches" that just means they are pastored by a Rhema Bible School graduate.

Father Rick (and Godson777)

I realize that the Hagins do not officially see Rhema as a denomination and would not admit to it, but don't you think that it now has the makings of what would be considered a denomination? I mean a Bible school in which many of it's pastors are liscensed and ordained through the main Rhema church and they are allowed to use the Faith Shield on their church buildings and literature, etc.

Furthermore, there was one pastor in New Jersey in some years who whose ordination was revoked by Rhema because he protested abortion clinics, which is against Rhema's regulations for their pastors. One of the reasons was the fear that Rhema would be held responsible for this pastor's actions. This is all to point out that whether or not the Hagins come out and call themselves a denomination, the practices of a denomination are inherent in the organization.

I guarantee you that nearly every denomination that we know about today was not intended to become that. Many of them started to get away from denominationalism and started "fellowships" but ended up becoming the very thing that they were attempting to get away from and for valid reasons (the need for ordination, commonality in doctrinal beliefs, etc.)

What do you think?

Keep in mind that I lconsider the ministry of Hagin Sr. to have impacted my life in a most positive way and I have defended him tooth and nail in the past so none of this is meant to be a slam.

 

[victoryword]

Most Pentecostal churches do not adhere to the WOF teaching-many Charismatic churches do. Pentecostal churches have united under a set of "core" beliefs ie http://ag.org/top/beliefs/truths_condensed.cfm

That's only because most Pentecostals (the A/G in particular) have long since rejected their classic roots. The majority of Word-Faith teaching is nothing more than early foundational Pentecostal doctrine. See the link below for more details on this:
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/rebuttal/aog_refute.html

 

[victoryword]

excellent post, victoryword. tks!!!! God bless!!

Thanks for the kind words edin.

 

[godson777]

Quite true victoryword. I guess it would have some positives if Rhema or Word of Faith was to formerly become a denomination. That would mean that we could speak out as a united group as to what our doctrinal beliefs are and we could speak out as a united group to those who wish to twist teaching and spread lies to slander this movement of God.

You said that a pastor had his ordination revoked by rhema because he spoke out against abortion clinics. Does that mean the Hagins are pro abortion?

Father Rick (and Godson777)

I realize that the Hagins do not officially see Rhema as a denomination and would not admit to it, but don't you think that it now has the makings of what would be considered a denomination? I mean a Bible school in which many of it's pastors are liscensed and ordained through the main Rhema church and they are allowed to use the Faith Shield on their church buildings and literature, etc.

Furthermore, there was one pastor in New Jersey in some years who whose ordination was revoked by Rhema because he protested abortion clinics, which is against Rhema's regulations for their pastors. One of the reasons was the fear that Rhema would be held responsible for this pastor's actions. This is all to point out that whether or not the Hagins come out and call themselves a denomination, the practices of a denomination are inherent in the organization.

I guarantee you that nearly every denomination that we know about today was not intended to become that. Many of them started to get away from denominationalism and started "fellowships" but ended up becoming the very thing that they were attempting to get away from and for valid reasons (the need for ordination, commonality in doctrinal beliefs, etc.)

What do you think?

Keep in mind that I lconsider the ministry of Hagin Sr. to have impacted my life in a most positive way and I have defended him tooth and nail in the past so none of this is meant to be a slam.

 

[He put me back together]

Good trees don't produce bad fruit, but sometimes bad trees make their way into good orchards. I think we all very often (probably not always) suffer from the same flaws, though those flaws may manifest themselves in different fashions. The question seems to be about differences in belief, not which belief is correct.

(Charismatics: please feel free to correct me, or to expound on anything, especially if it seems I've over-represented Pentecostalism by subconcious biases.)

There may be stylistic differences between some services, perhaps particularly because charismatic congregations have a greater tendency to reside more wholly in urban areas, but style and culture really has little place in discussion of differences in belief, which is another thing altogether.

It seems to me that the general fundamental differences include views on OSAS and how we address the issue of "freedom from sin." Naturally, the Pentecostal movement typically being a sect of denominations and the Charismatic movement typically being a sect within denominations, the Charismatic movement is prone to think differently than the Pentecostal movement on these issues, as well as having differences within itself. It's not a sign of being right or wrong, moreso than it is the nature of the beast. Pentecostals have a tendency to stand firmly against OSAS doctrines, and have a tendency to feel that Christ's sacrifice can bring His children to a state where they cease to sin. Charismatics seem to be more mixed on these issues. On this forum and not particularly in real life, it is my experience that a great many Charismatics seem to embrace OSAS doctrine, without rejecting belief in cessation from sin.

Now, particular fundamental differences--those differences that apply to the beliefs that make us different from the rest of Christendom--often seem to apply to beliefs about the manifestations of the Holy Spirit that we both agree on, as far as the presence thereof is concerned. We both believe in the active worship of the believer, and we both believe, at least in principle of words, that the Holy Spirit moves when we yield to Him. The difference between us pertains to how one yields to Him, or the definition of yielding to the Spirit itself. Charismatics tend to hold workshops with the intent of teaching believers how to speak in tongues and prophecy, and to do these things more effectively. Pentecostals scorn such practices, typically believing that they replace the utterance of God with imaginations from man. Pentecostals usually believe that utterance for these things comes only by divine habitation, and that other believers trying tweak the gifts are doing so only by themselves, and not by the Spirit.

I think the other fundamental difference on the particular scale is the idea of when and where manifestations of the Holy Spirit occur. We both typically believe that God is always speaking to us, and that we will always hear Him if we yield to Him. The difference, however, pertains to the will of God and the will of man, as well as the interpretation of 1 Corinthians 12-15. Charismatics usually believe that the believer may speak in tongues or prophecy at his own will--which, to be fair, boils down to the interpration of the aforementioned principle: God is always wanting to speak to us, therefore He is always wanting to prophecy, therefore it is a matter of us allowing Him to do it. Of course, there is also the principle that not all prophecy is God speaking, but man speaking things into being a child of God, but that is another discussion. Speaking in tongues is also at will, in a like manner, but there is a separate set of doctrines therein, depending on who you're talking to.

Pentecostals, on the other hand, believe that while God is always desiring to move, it is not up to us to decide how He is going to move. Speaking in Tongues, prophecying, and everything else, then, occurs when we yield our members to the Holy Spirit, and doing what He says, which, as is believed, is not always going to be speaking in tongues, prophecying, or anything else that we might decide that we wish to do at the time. Whether speaking in tongues is of the Holy Spirit, or ourselves, is not quite so relevant to the presence of this belief, because yielding ourselves to the Holy Spirit is how things are done in any respect.