What is the difference between Anglicanism and Lutheranism?

Hello, all.

I ask you all to forgive me - I have been dealing with mixed feelings about leaving the Eastern Orthodox Church. I've returned, but not sacramentally. I am attending once per month or so to see the people I love and to experience the beautiful liturgy, but it's just not for me, theologically.

So, I rather love the teachings of Martin Luther. Many of the issues he had with the RCC were issues I also saw within the RCC and EOC. My grandmother was a Lutheran from Germany and sent me to a Lutheran elementary school, so my actual knowledge of lutheran theology beyond the basics is pretty limited.

I also love Anglicanism, because of their openness to question and discover God on a personal level.

What are the largest differences between Anglicanism and Lutheranism?

My greatest issues with the RCC and EOC were the infallibility of the Pope and the Ecumenical council. Also upholding the scriptures and holy tradition as infallible (or nearly so.) What are the Anglican and Lutheran thoughts on these things?

I can more easily speak--at least at a basic level--to the differences between Anglicanism and Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism than I can to the differences between Anglicanism and Lutheranism.

I noted from your profile that you are American. It might be worth pointing out that in both Canada and the United States, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is in full communion with the Episcopal Church of the USA and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada is in full communion with the Anglican Church of Canada.

The best place to look for a basic understanding of Anglican beliefs is from the Articles of Religion. While no longer necessarily binding, they certainly help to explain the historical origins of the Church as to how it distinguishes itself from the Roman Catholic Church.

The Articles can be found in the Book of Common Prayer or online if you prefer: anglicansonline .org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html

That may help to answer some of your questions better than any explanation I could give, or may at least help to give you a starting point for further inquiry.

Pax Christi

HalupkiMonster said:

Hello, all.

I ask you all to forgive me - I have been dealing with mixed feelings about leaving the Eastern Orthodox Church. I've returned, but not sacramentally. I am attending once per month or so to see the people I love and to experience the beautiful liturgy, but it's just not for me, theologically.

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I can understand that, I've had similar experiences.

What are the largest differences between Anglicanism and Lutheranism?

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It's possible to be an Anglican and have a very Lutheran approach to Christianity, but its not easy to be Lutheran and have an Anglican approach to Christianity, if that makes sense.

Anglicanism was influenced both by Luther and Calvin, with it tilting more towards Calvin as time progressed, eventually developing its own identity and theological tradition that is more latitudinarian (broad) and non-scholastic in its theology (unlike Lutheranism and Calvinism). Anglicans have tended to be like Eastern Orthodox in how they do theology, whereas Lutherans have tended to filter the whole Christian faith through one lense, justification sola fide (faith alone).

My greatest issues with the RCC and EOC were the infallibility of the Pope and the Ecumenical council. Also upholding the scriptures and holy tradition as infallible (or nearly so.) What are the Anglican and Lutheran thoughts on these things?

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To my knowledge, Anglicans consider the Bible alone infallible, but doctrine is understood within the Church as a community, not individually (biblical inerrancy is another matter- that concept appears to be foreign to Anglicanism). Tradition has a place, but that doesn't mean that it stands over the Bible in authority- the Bible is used to critique tradition. And human reason is given more weight than in the Orthodox tradition. Which makes it inherently liberal compared to RC or EOC.

I have had time to think a lot about this, as I am a cradle Lutheran who joined a church that split off from the Episcopal church. Now, as it has been mentioned, the Episcopal Church and the ELCA work closely together. On the conservative side of things, the ACNA and LCMS have been in talks, but I don't think pulpit fellowship would ever be a possibility between them. Lutherans see things through the filter of their confessional books - the more liberal Lutherans are willing to allow conditions on what they subscribe to.Some but not all Lutherans practice closed Communion while most Anglicans would find the idea of closed Communion to be foreign. I think a Lutheran could be quite comfortable in an Anglican church that is some flavor of Anglo-Catholic (up to a point). Chiefly because Lutherans believe Christ is actually present in the Eucharist - their exact language differs a bit but both Lutherans and Anglo-Catholics don't see Communion as just a memorial. I think most Lutherans would feel out of place in an Anglican church that was very Calvinistic. There is a history of discord between Calvinists and Lutherans, although some Lutheran thinkers have tried to accommodate some aspects of Calvinism. There are high church and low church traditions in both Lutheranism and Anglicanism. The Rite II liturgy is similar to the high church Lutheran liturgy I grew up with. On the conservative side of things, at least in America, Lutherans have borrowed somewhat from fundamentalism. Young Earth Creationism is the norm and accepting evolution- that would not be an option for a conservative Lutheran. You can be a conservative Anglican and accept evolution. I have heard Anglicans of a more Calvinistic persuasion speak against Darwinism. Evolution doesn't seem to be an issue with the Anglo-Catholics I know. Lutherans are more likely to think of their differences with Rome. At least the Anglo-Catholics are likely to think more about where they agree with Rome (I'm not sure how this works out with Anglicans who are more Calvinist).

HalupkiMonster said:

Hello, all.

I ask you all to forgive me - I have been dealing with mixed feelings about leaving the Eastern Orthodox Church. I've returned, but not sacramentally. I am attending once per month or so to see the people I love and to experience the beautiful liturgy, but it's just not for me, theologically.

So, I rather love the teachings of Martin Luther. Many of the issues he had with the RCC were issues I also saw within the RCC and EOC. My grandmother was a Lutheran from Germany and sent me to a Lutheran elementary school, so my actual knowledge of lutheran theology beyond the basics is pretty limited.

I also love Anglicanism, because of their openness to question and discover God on a personal level.

What are the largest differences between Anglicanism and Lutheranism?

My greatest issues with the RCC and EOC were the infallibility of the Pope and the Ecumenical council. Also upholding the scriptures and holy tradition as infallible (or nearly so.) What are the Anglican and Lutheran thoughts on these things?

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Hi again.

Honestly, I am so new to Anglicanism, I am probably not the best person to give detailed information. I can just give my limited opinions based on my own experiences.

I attended the EOC before attending the Episcopal church & considering Lutheranism briefly. I also love the beauty of the EOC, but faced considerable barriers to a conversion, both theological & personal.

I think one key difference that lead me to choosing Anglicanism over Lutheranism was that Anglicanism is conciliar & Lutheranism is confessional. Ironically, I started a thread on blogs the other day & one of the good blogs offers a perspective on this subject, you can find it here: Ask an Anglican: Confessionalism Vs. Conciliarity | The Conciliar Anglican

In the Episcopal church, we are united in our belief in the Creeds (Nicene & Apostle's), in the liturgy, in the prayers...but there is no elaborate "other" list of things required for belonging or asked of members to believe, as far as I can tell (I have not sought official membership yet). My impression is that Scripture is upheld as the primary source of belief or authority, but tradition, the "mind of the Church," & reason are also used to guide or balance understandings of Scripture.

Other reasons I chose the Episcopal church:

-Consistently offers the Eucharist (at least in every single church I looked at in my area). The Lutheran churches (both LCMS & the ELCA) were not consistent - a few offered it weekly, but most offered it bi-weekly or less often, if memory serves me.

-Apostolic succession. From what I've heard, some Lutherans may be or are trying to re-introduce the practice & I think in a few places they've always had it, but I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject.

There are other reasons, but the first thing I mentioned about Anglicanism being conciliar is probably the most important difference & reason why I chose TEC.

I hope others can better help you & provide more in depth information (& someone correct me if I am mistaken on anything).

One last thing: the Episcopal church & the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America are in full communion with each other. Just thought that would be worth noting.

Doctor Strangelove said:

I have had time to think a lot about this, as I am a cradle Lutheran who joined a church that split off from the Episcopal church. Now, as it has been mentioned, the Episcopal Church and the ELCA work closely together. On the conservative side of things, the ACNA and LCMS have been in talks, but I don't think pulpit fellowship would ever be a possibility between them. Lutherans see things through the filter of their confessional books - the more liberal Lutherans are willing to allow conditions on what they subscribe to.Some but not all Lutherans practice closed Communion while most Anglicans would find the idea of closed Communion to be foreign. I think a Lutheran could be quite comfortable in an Anglican church that is some flavor of Anglo-Catholic (up to a point). Chiefly because Lutherans believe Christ is actually present in the Eucharist - their exact language differs a bit but both Lutherans and Anglo-Catholics don't see Communion as just a memorial.

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I was nodding in agreement until this description of "Anglo-Catholic" became a substitute for "Anglican." Virtually all Anglicans believe in the Real Presence, Apostolic Succession, etc. and the liturgy as followed by "Low Churchmen" is much more similar to what 's to be found in the average Lutheran church than the way High Church Anglican parishes do it.

I think there is a technical difference due to the origins of Anglicanism. It stood to the left of the Roman Catholic Church, but to the right of the Lutherans. If Edward VI had lived longer, it might have been more Puritan in nature. I don't know how much detail you want, let me know if any of what I written below interests you and I can point you to a good background source.

My roommate in college was a Lutheran. One time we attended an Episcopalian church together. She said it was very similar to her grandmother's church, but very different from the church her family attends. You might have to do some adventuring to find the building that is right for you.

HalupkiMonster said:

Hello, all.

I ask you all to forgive me - I have been dealing with mixed feelings about leaving the Eastern Orthodox Church. I've returned, but not sacramentally. I am attending once per month or so to see the people I love and to experience the beautiful liturgy, but it's just not for me, theologically.

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<snip>

STOP

I'm going to be as polite as possible in this.

What is going on here is a symptom of what others here who were active here during the time will remember. It caused chaos and frustration for both staff and participants in over 5 congregational forums. It caused the entire forum to lose the ability to change faith icons for a time and that individual found that individual's self in serious trouble.

My best advice is to stop jumping around and figure things out first. Do the research, which will take MANY YEARS, and then make an informed decision. Please, for your own good: don't make yourself miserable and take the long, hard, and eventually-fulfilling path to figure things out.

Changing faith icons like this is not appropriate. Please please please. Make an informed decision.

PaladinValer said:

<snip>

STOP

I'm going to be as polite as possible in this.

What is going on here is a symptom of what others here who were active here during the time will remember. It caused chaos and frustration for both staff and participants in over 5 congregational forums. It caused the entire forum to lose the ability to change faith icons for a time and that individual found that individual's self in serious trouble.

My best advice is to stop jumping around and figure things out first. Do the research, which will take MANY YEARS, and then make an informed decision. Please, for your own good: don't make yourself miserable and take the long, hard, and eventually-fulfilling path to figure things out.

Changing faith icons like this is not appropriate. Please please please. Make an informed decision.

Click to expand...

Is it really that much of a big deal? It's just a faith icon on an internet forum. the world isn't going to end over it.

Halupki, like many others, is going through a very tough and confusing time spiritually and to me a faith icon can also represent our present mind set.

I'm sorry, PaladinValer.

I didn't think it was such a big deal. I figured that since I can identify however I wanted on CF and change it whenever, it really wasn't anyone's business how often I changed my faith icon. I wish I was aware of what you have shared earlier. Please forgive my mistake, it won't happen again.

I have a suggestion. If it's such a big deal, why not limit peoples' access to changing their initial faith icon, and make submitting some sort of conversion story a prerequisite to changing it? Forgive me, but without some stricter moderation, I'm afraid it seems silly to be upset at people doing something which is totally in their power to do as CF users.

I also want to say that I am young and immature, and so I have only started actually examining my faith beyond the mere bells and whistles of my chosen Church. I'm just beginning on my journey, and so some sort of maturity of conduct should kick in any day now.

Again, please forgive my error. I know better now.

-HalupkiMonster

RoxyPops said:

Is it really that much of a big deal? It's just a faith icon on an internet forum. the world isn't going to end over it.

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Again, those who experienced what happened before will tell anyone how bad it was. As I said, it caused the entire forum to lose a privilege for a time.

Halupki, like many others, is going through a very tough and confusing time spiritually and to me a faith icon can also represent our present mind set.

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The present mind set is in flux, not set; so therefore, the icon should be reflective of that. Recognizing that is important, as it fosters and makes visible honesty, integrity, and self-awareness of one's person.

HalupkiMonster said:

I'm sorry, PaladinValer.

I didn't think it was such a big deal. I figured that since I can identify however I wanted on CF and change it whenever, it really wasn't anyone's business how often I changed my faith icon. I wish I was aware of what you have shared earlier. Please forgive my mistake, it won't happen again.

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The problem is that it isn't honest: both to others and to one's self. Integrity and self-honesty is vital. Is it appropriate to parade into OBOB with a Roman Catholic icon when in reality a decision has yet to be truly made? What does that say to the individuals who post in OBOB about that person? If it continues to happen, they won't accept until they see real visible evidence of solid and real conversion and/or belief.

And when it happens in many congregational forums, more people will take notice of that individual and everyone is going to become annoyed. This forums are designed as safe houses as well as places to fellowship and learn. Treating this flippantly is simply not appropriate, and people may get the impression that the individual is a troll, deceptive, or something else.

And that happened before. This one individual who did got in a huge amount of trouble. We all then learned why it was going on, staffed acted.

I don't want that to happen to you. That is why I am writings these posts because I want you to avoid something like this. There are several posters, including one or two here on STR, who remember, and they'd tell you the same thing.

I have a suggestion. If it's such a big deal, why not limit peoples' access to changing their initial faith icon, and make submitting some sort of conversion story a prerequisite to changing it? Forgive me, but without some stricter moderation, I'm afraid it seems silly to be upset at people doing something which is totally in their power to do as CF users.

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No one is upset, but that may happen.

I also want to say that I am young and immature, and so I have only started actually examining my faith beyond the mere bells and whistles of my chosen Church. I'm just beginning on my journey, and so some sort of maturity of conduct should kick in any day now.

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Again, nothing wrong with questioning, but while questioning, don't portray something what one is not. Every single big name church or denomination will tell you that, including the Vatican Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican and Continuing Anglican, Lutheran, and Moravian churches and denominations, and I would include confessional Protestants like the PCA as well.

Patience. As I said; this will takes years. Furthermore, I am worried that "some sort of maturity of conduct should kick in any day now" was written in your post. Posting habits should already be present in most late teens. Maturity isn't some sudden switch; never has been and never will be.

graceandpeace said:

Hi again.

Honestly, I am so new to Anglicanism, I am probably not the best person to give detailed information. I can just give my limited opinions based on my own experiences.

I attended the EOC before attending the Episcopal church & considering Lutheranism briefly. I also love the beauty of the EOC, but faced considerable barriers to a conversion, both theological & personal.

I think one key difference that lead me to choosing Anglicanism over Lutheranism was that Anglicanism is conciliar & Lutheranism is confessional. Ironically, I started a thread on blogs the other day & one of the good blogs offers a perspective on this subject, you can find it here: Ask an Anglican: Confessionalism Vs. Conciliarity | The Conciliar Anglican

In the Episcopal church, we are united in our belief in the Creeds (Nicene & Apostle's), in the liturgy, in the prayers...but there is no elaborate "other" list of things required for belonging or asked of members to believe, as far as I can tell (I have not sought official membership yet). My impression is that Scripture is upheld as the primary source of belief or authority, but tradition, the "mind of the Church," & reason are also used to guide or balance understandings of Scripture.

Other reasons I chose the Episcopal church:

-Consistently offers the Eucharist (at least in every single church I looked at in my area). The Lutheran churches (both LCMS & the ELCA) were not consistent - a few offered it weekly, but most offered it bi-weekly or less often, if memory serves me.

-Apostolic succession. From what I've heard, some Lutherans may be or are trying to re-introduce the practice & I think in a few places they've always had it, but I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject.

There are other reasons, but the first thing I mentioned about Anglicanism being conciliar is probably the most important difference & reason why I chose TEC.

I hope others can better help you & provide more in depth information (& someone correct me if I am mistaken on anything).

One last thing: the Episcopal church & the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America are in full communion with each other. Just thought that would be worth noting.

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That link was very helpful. Thank you very much.

PaladinVader speaks wise words. I began my search 5 years ago and only recently made my decision. During that 5 years I was frequently pulled between Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and Roman Catholicism.

graceandpeace said:

Hi again.

Honestly, I am so new to Anglicanism, I am probably not the best person to give detailed information. I can just give my limited opinions based on my own experiences.

I attended the EOC before attending the Episcopal church & considering Lutheranism briefly. I also love the beauty of the EOC, but faced considerable barriers to a conversion, both theological & personal.

I think one key difference that lead me to choosing Anglicanism over Lutheranism was that Anglicanism is conciliar & Lutheranism is confessional.

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Yes. That's a good point.

In the Episcopal church, we are united in our belief in the Creeds (Nicene & Apostle's), in the liturgy, in the prayers...but there is no elaborate "other" list of things required for belonging or asked of members to believe, as far as I can tell

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Except that the Episcopal Church is far from united on any doctrine, whereas the Confessional (Lutheran) churches do insist upon and very much strive to maintain a uniformity of belief...perhaps even to the point that critics see it as oppressive.

My impression is that Scripture is upheld as the primary source of belief or authority, but tradition, the "mind of the Church," & reason are also used to guide or balance understandings of Scripture.

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Which is true, and Lutheranism is very much a "Sola Scriptura" faith.

Other reasons I chose the Episcopal church:

-Consistently offers the Eucharist (at least in every single church I looked at in my area). The Lutheran churches (both LCMS & the ELCA) were not consistent - a few offered it weekly, but most offered it bi-weekly or less often, if memory serves me.

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That seems safe to say of the respective denominations.

Apostolic succession. From what I've heard, some Lutherans may be or are trying to re-introduce the practice & I think in a few places they've always had it, but I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject.

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Lutherans don't reject it as wrong, but you are correct that Lutheran churches normally are not governed by bishops in A.S. (in the USA, that would be every one of them except the ELCA and a couple of miniscule synods).

Albion said:

Virtually all Anglicans believe in the Real Presence, Apostolic Succession, etc.

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By "Anglican" there, I presume that you mean "Americans who self-identify as Anglican rather than Episcopalian", because that claim would be difficult to substantiate for those of us in the rest of the world.

alasthai said:

By "Anglican" there, I presume that you mean "Americans who self-identify as Anglican rather than Episcopalian", because that claim would be difficult to substantiate for those of us in the rest of the world.

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You're trying to say, I take it, that 'Anglicans' are pretty reliable when it comes to adhering to the historic faith while 'Episcopalians' are all over the map on this subject. If that's your belief, then so be it.

Speaking for myself, I really don't know that such an opinion is accurate. But in any case, I wasn't separating the two in my answer, so we know that your presumption at least was wrong.

Albion said:

You're trying to say, I take it, that 'Anglicans' are pretty reliable when it comes to adhering to the historic faith while 'Episcopalians' are all over the map on this subject. If that's your belief, then so be it.

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Actually, no; I meant just what I said. You had said "all Anglicans believe this". Since that claim would be a difficult one to substantiate for all of the Anglicans in the world, it seemed most reasonable to assume that, by "Anglicans", you meant a subset, such as the American conservatives who describe themselves as "Anglicans" rather than "Episcopalians".

Admittedly, you could just have been making a vast, sweeping, and wholly-undemonstrated generalisation about all Anglicans everywhere, but I preferred to give you the benefit of the doubt.

alasthai said:

Actually, no; I meant just what I said. You had said "all Anglicans believe this". Since that claim would be a difficult one to substantiate for all of the Anglicans in the world, it seemed most reasonable to assume that, by "Anglicans", you meant a subset, such as the American conservatives who describe themselves as "Anglicans" rather than "Episcopalians".

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When I said, "Anglicans," I meant Anglicans.

As you said, you presumed. It was not "most reasonable" to do that. You were wrong. That's all there is to that.


And when I said "virtually all," I allowed for the occasional churchgoer who really doesn't even pick up on what his church teaches. I might add that I know of no Anglican church body that does not affirm the Real Presence.

Albion said:

When I said, "Anglicans," I meant Anglicans.

As you said, you presumed. It was not "most reasonable" to do that. You were wrong. That's all there is to that.

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That's fine. I would far rather be charitably wrong in presuming that you were applying some measure of rigour to your comment than uncharitably right in presuming that you were not.

And when I said "virtually all," I allowed for the occasional churchgoer who really doesn't even pick up on what his church teaches. I might add that I know of no Anglican church body that does not affirm the Real Presence.

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Of course, self-identifying Anglicans do not necessarily believe what their churches teach them, and many in the UK (48%, according to British Social Attitudes 28) do not go to church. The assumption that church teaching is a determining factor in personal belief is false for many religious positions, and definitely so for Anglicanism, as most clearly demonstrated by the broad range of views within Anglicanism. Further, with last year's Westminster Faith Debates/YouGov poll showing that 18% of Anglican surveyed do not believe in God while 17% are very uncertain, and only 12% rely upon the teachings of their religion for guidance, I am afraid that your still wholly-undemonstrated generalisation about near-universal Anglican belief in the Real Presence and Apostolic Succession remains tremendously unreliable.

There can be some overlap, at least between TEC and ELCA, which have a full communion agreement. My church has both formal affiliations, hence my self-description as Episcopalutheran.