What is the "burning bosom?"

[CrownCaster]

Okay, when I was lds, I was told, through the leaders and the bom, that if I was sincere enough and asked God, He would tell me the truth of the church through a burning bosom.

Well, I never got this burning bosom. Of course I was encouraged to find how God was talking to me. This, I was told can come in many different ways.

Some people experience;

Chills down the back of their necks,
hair standing on end on their arms,
lightheadedness,
etc. etc.


So, my question is this; if the burning bosom is really just any "good feeling" you get when reading the bom or asking questions, how do you know?

BTW, I got the chills down my spine. My bishop insisted that this was the way the Spirit was manifesting Himself to me. Sorry, not buying it.

 

[fatboys]

Okay, when I was lds, I was told, through the leaders and the bom, that if I was sincere enough and asked God, He would tell me the truth of the church through a burning bosom.

Well, I never got this burning bosom. Of course I was encouraged to find how God was talking to me. This, I was told can come in many different ways.

Some people experience;

Chills down the back of their necks,
hair standing on end on their arms,
lightheadedness,
etc. etc.


So, my question is this; if the burning bosom is really just any "good feeling" you get when reading the bom or asking questions, how do you know?

BTW, I got the chills down my spine. My bishop insisted that this was the way the Spirit was manifesting Himself to me. Sorry, not buying it.

FB: Crown you did this on purpose. You knew I would have to respond. First off Crown, it does not say anything in the Book of Mormon about burning in the bosom. It does say that the Holy Ghost will reveal it to you. As you know not everyone is open to the common burning in the bosom. Probably due to heart problems, I don't know. But answers are not the same for everyone. I personally did receive an answer which testified to my very soul that it was true. It was something I had not felt for many years. The last time was when I was baptized. I did not understand what it was, but wanted more. But I went on my merry worldly way. Not until I was older and wanted to know for myself if the church was true was I given the answer with what is best described as a burning in my bosom. Not fire, but feeling that made me bound by what I felt was an answer to my question. For other people it is given differently, but just as dramatic to them.

I don't know why if you were sincere that you did not receive an answer. Makes we wonder why you joined in the first place if it you did not feel anything.

 

[Breetai]

BTW, I got the chills down my spine. My bishop insisted that this was the way the Spirit was manifesting Himself to me. Sorry, not buying it.

You're a spiritually smarter guy than anyone who does buy it.

I personally did receive an answer which testified to my very soul that it was true. It was something I had not felt for many years. The last time was when I was baptized. I did not understand what it was, but wanted more. But I went on my merry worldly way. Not until I was older and wanted to know for myself if the church was true was I given the answer with what is best described as a burning in my bosom. Not fire, but feeling that made me bound by what I felt was an answer to my question. For other people it is given differently, but just as dramatic to them.

Is it just a coincidence that I felt the very same the last time that I had sex?

 

[CrownCaster]

I don't know why if you were sincere that you did not receive an answer. Makes we wonder why you joined in the first place if it you did not feel anything.

Because in my heart I knew I wanted God more then anything else. At that point I did not even really know anything else was out there. I only assumed that the mormon church was where it was at. I just knew, according to the bom that if I continued to pray and ask with sincerity I would get the confirmation. I also felt like I had to just keep on keeping on to get there. I lay prone on the floor many times seeking this confirmation. My heart never burned.

 

[Romans5:1]

…it does not say anything in the Book of Mormon about burning in the bosom.

It does say something, though, about a burning the bosom in D&C 9:8-9. Does that not count?

It does say that the Holy Ghost will reveal it to you.

In the D&C passage, all it says is that "I will cause that your bosom shall burn," but nowhere does it specifically define who "I" is. Assuming that the "I" is God, and this revelation is personal, as you suggest, then how does God personally cause this burning sensation? On the other hand, if the Holy "Ghost" does the revealing, then is the "I" in D&C the "Ghost" talking?

As for the Holy Ghost revealing whatever to whomever, how does one know for certain that whatever is being revealed is being done so by the HG, since there seems to be so many "opinions" on just what the burning is? Also, assuming that the leadership in the Mormon Church gets a "burning" every once in a while about some "new" revelation, how do they determine the validity of the revelation, if what is being revealed is totally contraditory to a previous leader's "burning" revelation which he took to be true?

As you know not everyone is open to the common burning in the bosom. Probably due to heart problems, I don't know. But answers are not the same for everyone.

"Common burning?" I looked your terminology up, and could not find it. What do you mean by "common burning?"

I personally did receive an answer which testified to my very soul that it was true. It was something I had not felt for many years. The last time was when I was baptized. I did not understand what it was, but wanted more.

May I ask, where does it say that the HG, or God himself for that matter, is a "personal" feeling? Also, since you say the HG made his presence personal, how were you able to distinguish between him, and say, a clever imposter?

But I went on my merry worldly way. Not until I was older and wanted to know for myself if the church was true was I given the answer with what is best described as a burning in my bosom. Not fire, but feeling that made me bound by what I felt was an answer to my question. For other people it is given differently, but just as dramatic to them.

So, until you gave final approval to whatever sensation you were having, it was not true otherwise? May I ask, just what objective standard you were using when evaluating this subjective sensation? Also, why would anyone want to use an objective standard, if the feeling was subjectively determined? Lastly, why do Mormons become offended when someone comes to a completely opposite conclusion than a Mormon would concerning whatever about Mormonism, even though the non-Mormon uses the same approach to determining the truth about such matters as the Mormon himself? And can the Mormon be necessarily more correct in the "final answer," than the non-Mormon, if both are using the same standards to determine the truth?

I don't know why if you were sincere that you did not receive an answer. Makes we wonder why you joined in the first place if it you did not feel anything.

Could it be that instead of questioning one's sincerity, that just perhaps the basis for determining truth is flawed?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

You're a spiritually smarter guy than anyone who does buy it.

Is it just a coincidence that I felt the very same the last time that I has sex?

Ok, I was thinking the same thing but wasn't going to say it until I saw that someone else had been thinking the same thing too. lololol

It's a scary thing when people base their decision of "truth" on how it makes them "feel". Not a very good measuring stick for the things of God.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Because in my heart I knew I wanted God more then anything else. At that point I did not even really know anything else was out there. I only assumed that the mormon church was where it was at. I just knew, according to the bom that if I continued to pray and ask with sincerity I would get the confirmation. I also felt like I had to just keep on keeping on to get there. I lay prone on the floor many times seeking this confirmation. My heart never burned.

This is the norm for the lds religion. If people don't get that "witness" that the lds church is true, they are told to pray harder, read their lds scriptures more, listen to the spirit more, follow the commandments more.... if you recieve and answer that says the lds church is not true or you don't recieve any answer at all, it is just because you didn't do enough to get the "right" answer.

 

[Beoga]

first time i heard the word bosom (i was in my small group bible study), i thought it ment butt, so i thought we were talking about a burning in the butt, hahahahahehehehaha
...okay, i thought my teenage stupidity was funny

 

[unbound]

I get a warm feeling when I watch sci fi space movies and get caught up in all the action. But I know its all just fantasy. But... Maybe if I pray about it to see if its true,the force will reveal it to me, and I can get a testimony? I know Star Wars is true.......

 

[Swart]

This is the norm for the lds religion. If people don't get that "witness" that the lds church is true, they are told to pray harder, read their lds scriptures more, listen to the spirit more, follow the commandments more.... if you recieve and answer that says the lds church is not true or you don't recieve any answer at all, it is just because you didn't do enough to get the "right" answer.

This way well be your experience. I dispute that it is the norm. Having spent a significant portion of my life involved in the missionary efforts of the church I can honestly say it si not MY experience.

Helping others feel and recognise the spirit is one of the most important and difficult aspects of missionary work. Unless someone has the gift of discernment, they cannot positively say whether the experience another is having is the HG manifesting itself. They CAN look at the outward signs and give an opinion, however.

The key factor is that when the HG testifies it is undeniably from God and individual for that person. The experience is not quite describable and is beyond attempts at explanation. It is like describing sight to a blind person. It is a mighty change of heart and a witness of the divinity of Christ. To describe it as a burning in the bosom does very little justice to the experience.

 

[MormonFriend]

Okay, when I was lds, I was told, through the leaders and the bom, that if I was sincere enough and asked God, He would tell me the truth of the church through a burning bosom.

Well, I never got this burning bosom. Of course I was encouraged to find how God was talking to me. This, I was told can come in many different ways.

Some people experience;

Chills down the back of their necks,
hair standing on end on their arms,
lightheadedness,
etc. etc.


So, my question is this; if the burning bosom is really just any "good feeling" you get when reading the bom or asking questions, how do you know?

BTW, I got the chills down my spine. My bishop insisted that this was the way the Spirit was manifesting Himself to me. Sorry, not buying it.

I am certain that this experience is what the disciples on the road to Emmaus felt. The way I believe to verify the experience is that a greater light of understanding is open to you. The ability to see things that ironically have always been right in front of your nose, but never perceived as significant become very meaningful. The Emmaus bound disciples were radient with new understanding, and their hearts burned within.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

This way well be your experience. I dispute that it is the norm. Having spent a significant portion of my life involved in the missionary efforts of the church I can honestly say it si not MY experience.

Helping others feel and recognise the spirit is one of the most important and difficult aspects of missionary work. Unless someone has the gift of discernment, they cannot positively say whether the experience another is having is the HG manifesting itself. They CAN look at the outward signs and give an opinion, however.

The key factor is that when the HG testifies it is undeniably from God and individual for that person. The experience is not quite describable and is beyond attempts at explanation. It is like describing sight to a blind person. It is a mighty change of heart and a witness of the divinity of Christ. To describe it as a burning in the bosom does very little justice to the experience.

How does "man" help one to "feel" and "recognize" the Holy Spirit of God? Who is man to tell someone when they have "felt" the Holy Spirit and that what they "felt" was in fact the Holy Spirit of God?

Like I have stated several times before. I think it is a very dangerous thing to base truth on a "feeling".

 

[Beoga]

okay, so some have an "undeniable experiance from the HG" for mormonism,and some have an "undeniable experiance from the HG" against mormonism, is the God/HG divided against himself? How do we determine which "HG experiance" is genuine?

 

[Swart]

Because in my heart I knew I wanted God more then anything else. At that point I did not even really know anything else was out there. I only assumed that the mormon church was where it was at. I just knew, according to the bom that if I continued to pray and ask with sincerity I would get the confirmation. I also felt like I had to just keep on keeping on to get there. I lay prone on the floor many times seeking this confirmation. My heart never burned.

IMO, they should never have baptised you without this witness. I'm not about to criticise your experience. It is valid and honest. You prayed, you received no answer, you shouldn't have been baptised. The missionaries accomplished little good for you in baptising you. You feel cheated, lied to and are bitter about the entire experience.

If the missionaries had insisted you wait for an answer. Several things may have happend:

1) You may have eventually received an answer and then been baptised.
2) You may have not studied the church and decided intellectually that it was false and thus been spared the pain and anger at separating yourself from the church.
3) You may have given up searching and resumed your search at a later date when you were prepared to do so.

Regadless of the case, to me one thing is abundatly clear: You should not have been baptised at that time and the missionaries were ignoring the advice of the HG in going ahead with your baptism.

It is human nature to transpose your own thoughts, experiences and feelings onto others. We then assume that because they making different decisions they are either deceived, deluded or deliberately dishonest. It is Wisdom to assume that because another makes different decisions to us, then perhaps it is because our thoughts, experiences and feelings differ.

I had an unfortunate experience with one set of missionaries that baptised a woman long before she should have been, in spite of my objections. She hadn't felt the HG and still had a problem with smoking. Naturally, within a short period of time (despite our efforts) she fell away. Eventually once her life was in order she started attending another church and felt a spiritual witness, so naturally she began attending that church. Now, I'm not about to second guess the HG. Just possibly, she is where she needs to be, and that the HG has guided her to where she can thrive best. We still keep in contact and until I moved I regularly visited her as her home teacher. We remain friends, and yes, I have learnt things from her. For example, one of her neighbours deliberately dumped rubbish over her fence and then glared at her. She told him she loved him and would pray for him, and then went inside and prayed for him. My reaction would have been significantly different.

As a missionary, I taught a very intelligent and honest man who was a strong member of another church. I asked him during the discussion what it would mean if he recived an answer from God that the Book of Mormon is true. He replied staright away "It would mean I would have to join your church."

After the discussion was finished, I tried to set a follow up appointment. He said "No need. I have your book. I will read and pray about it and I will call you if I get an answer from God. I won't need any more lessons." Then he showed us his photos and newspaper articles of his missionary work in Africa, the hospitals he had built, people he had helped etc. It suddenly dawned on me that this was one of God's servants who was already following the guidance of the HG and he was where he could be the most effective instrument in the hands of God. There was no way the HG was going to draw him into the church where he would most likely be less effective.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I get a warm feeling when I watch sci fi space movies and get caught up in all the action. But I know its all just fantasy. But... Maybe if I pray about it to see if its true,the force will reveal it to me, and I can get a testimony? I know Star Wars is true.......

It makes me think of a funeral or a very "heart-felt" movie. Very emotional and touching... must mean it is true. Of course if we are at a funeral and caught up in the emotions of it all, it does make our hearts burn with emotion but I have been to more than one funeral where things that were said about the decieced were at best, an exageration. That is not to say that everything said at every funeral about everyone who has passed on is a lie or and exageration, just that it does happen and just because it is emotional and makes one feel good, does not mean that what is said is actually true.

 

[CrownCaster]

This is the norm for the lds religion. If people don't get that "witness" that the lds church is true, they are told to pray harder, read their lds scriptures more, listen to the spirit more, follow the commandments more.... if you recieve and answer that says the lds church is not true or you don't recieve any answer at all, it is just because you didn't do enough to get the "right" answer.

That was my experience and it scared me. I was trying so hard to know God and do what He wanted me too. It was not until I let go though that I was able to receive the relationship. When I stopped working and got out of the way so Jesus could work, He did.

 

[CrownCaster]

first time i heard the word bosom (i was in my small group bible study), i thought it ment butt, so i thought we were talking about a burning in the butt, hahahahahehehehaha
...okay, i thought my teenage stupidity was funny

That is hilarious. I love the silly moments. My butt is burning! It must be true.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I had an unfortunate experience with one set of missionaries that baptised a woman long before she should have been, in spite of my objections. She hadn't felt the HG and still had a problem with smoking. Naturally, within a short period of time (despite our efforts) she fell away. Eventually once her life was in order she started attending another church and felt a spiritual witness, so naturally she began attending that church. .

Swart, I had a question about the above part of what you previously stated... what do you mean by "her life was in order"? Are you saying that because she smoked and didn't feel the lds concept of the holy spirit her life was not in order?

 

[CrownCaster]

This way well be your experience. I dispute that it is the norm. Having spent a significant portion of my life involved in the missionary efforts of the church I can honestly say it si not MY experience.

Helping others feel and recognise the spirit is one of the most important and difficult aspects of missionary work. Unless someone has the gift of discernment, they cannot positively say whether the experience another is having is the HG manifesting itself. They CAN look at the outward signs and give an opinion, however.

The key factor is that when the HG testifies it is undeniably from God and individual for that person. The experience is not quite describable and is beyond attempts at explanation. It is like describing sight to a blind person. It is a mighty change of heart and a witness of the divinity of Christ. To describe it as a burning in the bosom does very little justice to the experience.

Okay, the why does it not come to all who seek it as is promised??

 

[Wrigley]

okay, so some have an "undeniable experiance from the HG" for mormonism,and some have an "undeniable experiance from the HG" against mormonism, is the God/HG divided against himself? How do we determine which "HG experiance" is genuine?

Are you clear what it is now?