What is lust? and Is it Ethical or Moral?

[wanderphilos]

Lust. It sits in the mind. It is the thought that sits in your mind and can corrupt a lot of the good intentions that people have. I define lust as sort of a overwhelming craving ... or desire.

I haven't decided if it is a sin yet because I know that you can not be tempted by something you do not find desirable.... so if Jesus was tempted in the desert ... it would mean He would have had to want what ever it was that was being offered.

But lusting for something ... be it sex, money, power ... I leave it to you all. Is lusting ethical? Is it moral? How do you define it?

 

[gengwall]

Well, I think there are plenty of "lust as sin" passages in the bible. I would equate it with idolatry. But, the hooks that tempt us are not, in themselves, lust. They only become lust if we act on them. Money (the hook) is not in and of itself evil. But the love of money (acting on the temptation money may present) is idolatrous and therefore sinful.

 

[lynn18]

lust is one of the seven deadly sins also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins

Lust is best described as depraved thought, unwholesome morality, desire for excitement, or need to be accepted or recognized by others. It also includes obsessive or unlawful sexual desire, such as desiring to engage in excessive sexual appetites. Bestiality, rape, and adultery are considered to be extreme forms of lust.

 

[bammertheblue]

I don't think lust is immoral. Acting on the lust can be moral or immoral, depending on the circumstances.

 

[gengwall]

I don't think lust is immoral. Acting on the lust can be moral or immoral, depending on the circumstances.

You may have a point. There was a thread once that asked: "Is it moral to lust after your spouse". It makes me wonder. I think that it is correct and necessary for you to desire your spouse and to also act upon that desire. Some would equate that with lust, and with good reason. Yet I would call that healthy and even biblical, as long as, at least for the Judeo-Christian and Muslim it does not exceed your desire to know and follow God. So, assuming that is an example of lust and assuming it is acceptable and even desired by God for you and your spouse, are there other such examples. On the other hand, maybe it is not correct to call that lust, although I haven't heard a compelling argument as such.

Hmmmm.

 

[nvxplorer]

Lust. It sits in the mind. It is the thought that sits in your mind and can corrupt a lot of the good intentions that people have. I define lust as sort of a overwhelming craving ... or desire.

I haven't decided if it is a sin yet because I know that you can not be tempted by something you do not find desirable.... so if Jesus was tempted in the desert ... it would mean He would have had to want what ever it was that was being offered.

But lusting for something ... be it sex, money, power ... I leave it to you all. Is lusting ethical? Is it moral? How do you define it?

Are you expanding the definition to include rhetorical uses such as "lust for power?" (We already have a term for lust for money: Greed.) The rhetorical use denotes an obsession/compulsion. The original meaning of the word is more difficult to pin down in an individual, as everyone does not have the same libido. What you consider to be lustful may be a normal sex drive in someone else.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

lust is one of the seven deadly sins also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins

Lust is best described as depraved thought, unwholesome morality, desire for excitement, or need to be accepted or recognized by others. It also includes obsessive or unlawful sexual desire, such as desiring to engage in excessive sexual appetites. Bestiality, rape, and adultery are considered to be extreme forms of lust.

Where does this definition come from? It certainly isn't very concise.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

"Lust" is polysemous, so we should narrow the kind of lust we're talking about.

You can use it in the sense that one has a "lust for life" of "lust for power," in which case I don't think it could be a sin for a Christian, since that kind of lust can also be translated into a lust for god or lust for righteousness.

The other kind is, broadly, overwhelming sexual desire. I personally don't see how this is different from your garden-variety libido in a teenage boy. I don't think one's sex drive, which is largely outside of one's control, should be the object of scorn and so I don't think it is a sin.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Lust is against God. But there is always the good kind and the bad kind.

Like lusting after another man/woman is bad.

Lusting after a closer relationship with God...is Good.

 

[quatona]

Lust. It sits in the mind. It is the thought that sits in your mind and can corrupt a lot of the good intentions that people have. I define lust as sort of a overwhelming craving ... or desire.
But lusting for something ... be it sex, money, power ... I leave it to you all. Is lusting ethical? Is it moral? How do you define it?

Why would I add another definition instead of discussing your concept? We would be talking about something different than you had in mind, no?
Summary of your definition:
a. overwhelming desire
b. sits in the mind
c. can be directed towards all sorts of things (sex, money, power, chocolate,...)
d. can corrupt good intentions

ad a. which intensity does "overwhelming" point to? Really overwhelming, so that you can´t resist it?
ad b. How did it get there? (this is probably a question particularly important for the question whether it is a "sin", which actually is a problem for believers only).
ad d. How does it corrupt good intentions? What is the mechanism? Is it a systemic property of lust to corrupt good intentions, or does it occasionally corrupt good intentions, just like a lot of other things do?
Are there occasions thinkeable in which lust for something helps good intentions, or even brings them into being?

As you probably know after our long conversations the question "Is this moral?" is meaningless to me.
I personally do not really like to be overwhelmed by my desires, and fortunately for me it almost never happens.

A word of warning: Your above definition is very special, and I am sensing that it doesn´t cover that which I guess you actually want to discuss: sex for pleasure. I am a great fan of sex for pleasure, but I have never found myself engaging in it out of lust as defined above.

 

[christalee4]

I recall a similar discussion with another poster, who refused to say that he lusted after his wife, because in the Bible it says lust is sinful. The poster went on at length that the love between a husband and wife was special, spiritual and blessed. He couldn't or wouldn't connect that getting carried away sexually was in fact lusting, and a necessary part of biology. My question was, when one is properly married and everything, and the two of you want to make a baby, what on earth inspires the couple to rip off their flannel pajamas and make like bunnies? LUST, that's what.

 

[quatona]

I recall a similar discussion with another poster, who refused to say that he lusted after his wife, because in the Bible it says lust is sinful. The poster went on at length that the love between a husband and wife was special, spiritual and blessed. He couldn't or wouldn't connect that getting carried away sexually was in fact lusting, and a necessary part of biology. My question was, when one is properly married and everything, and the two of you want to make a baby, what on earth inspires the couple to rip off their flannel pajamas and make like bunnies? LUST, that's what.

That´s however not the only way to do it. They could take their clothes off calmly, fold them neatly, say a prayer, think of the HolySpirit and the purpose of the universe, feel guilty and make like dogs. Just to name one other option.

 

[KCDAD]

I like my own definition of lust (don't we all?)
Selfish explotation of other people's property, person or ideas for one's own pleasure and advancement.
The distinction I would make between love and lust is that love looks to the other person's pleasure and advancement and lust is all about me.

 

[gengwall]

That´s however not the only way to do it. They could take their clothes off calmly, fold them neatly, say a prayer, think of the HolySpirit and the purpose of the universe, feel guilty and make like dogs. Just to name one other option.

True, but I doubt God has a problem with either approach.

 

[RealSorceror]

If we are talking about physical lust, thats just a chemical reaction in your body. Its natural and is therefore nuetral. How you decide to act on it is where the ethical, immoral argument comes in.

 

[gengwall]

If we are talking about physical lust, thats just a chemical reaction in your body. Its natural and is therefore nuetral. How you decide to act on it is where the ethical, immoral argument comes in.

Everything that is natural is not nuetral from a religious (pleasing God) perspecitve. Our sin nature is natural but certainly not pleasing to God. From a religious perspective, there is much natural, normal, even potentially good physiology that has been coopted by the evil forces of this world and turned bad. Of course, if you don't believe in any of that, then I can see how you would view things as natural=neutral.

 

[christalee4]

I like my own definition of lust (don't we all?)
Selfish explotation of other people's property, person or ideas for one's own pleasure and advancement.
The distinction I would make between love and lust is that love looks to the other person's pleasure and advancement and lust is all about me.

I do think lust has many definitions - yours is a good one.

http://dict.die.net/lust/

But I also see lust as a real physiological response to attraction. Is it okay for a husband and wife to lust after each other? Is it selfish to want to attack your willing spouse like a mad panting hyena - isn't that what marriage is for, the legal sanction of mutual lust?

 

[JesusWalks78]

I recall a similar discussion with another poster, who refused to say that he lusted after his wife, because in the Bible it says lust is sinful. The poster went on at length that the love between a husband and wife was special, spiritual and blessed. He couldn't or wouldn't connect that getting carried away sexually was in fact lusting, and a necessary part of biology. My question was, when one is properly married and everything, and the two of you want to make a baby, what on earth inspires the couple to rip off their flannel pajamas and make like bunnies? LUST, that's what.

My priest says one of the holiest acts a married couple can do is have a bit of sex.

 

[sodapop112]

good for your priest

 

[PoePom]

Sexual lust is the natural desire of a human person to mate/reproduce with another human being. It is one of the most basic instincts any person can have. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with lusting after ANYBODY. Even lusting after family members is not in itself "wrong", acting on that lust is crossingthe line however. People should not and cannot be blamed for natural instinct.