What is going on with the old calendar church?

[Silent Bob]

From what I know the Greek patriarchy has excommunicated them except for the monasteries in Mount Athos. However the people here view it as a stricter version of Orthodoxy. Does anyone know what is going on? I'd like to know more, both facts and oppinions, on the issue.

 

[Philip]

From what I know the Greek patriarchy has excommunicated them except for the monasteries in Mount Athos. However the people here view it as a stricter version of Orthodoxy. Does anyone know what is going on? I'd like to know more, both facts and oppinions, on the issue.

Can you provide more details?

 

[ExOrienteLux]

Are you confusing those who use the Julian Calendar (as opposed to those who use the Revised Julian [ie. Gregorian] Calendar) with the Old Calendarists?

-Philip.

 

[Silent Bob]

As is always the case with reform movements, there was strong opposition to the adoption of the New Calendar, especially in Greece. What differed in this situation, however, was that reform was initiated by the established Church together with the total backing of the state. Groups of "Old Calendarists" or Palaioemerologitai, refused to abide by the Church's decision and continued to follow the Old Calendar for both movable and immovable feast days. The basis of their refusal to abandon the Old Calendar rested on the argument that canons ratified by an Ecumenical Synod knew only of the Julian Calendar. Therefore, nothing less than an Ecumenical Synod had the authority to institute a reform of such proportion. In view of their refusal to submit to the authority of the Church of Greece, the official Church excommunicated them. This was not the case with the monasteries of Mt. Athos. Although all but one (i.e., 19 monasteries) continued to follow the Old Calendar, they are under the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Constantinople with which they continue to be in communion. Despite attempts by the civil authorities in Greece to suppress them, the "Old Calendarists" continue to exist there and abroad and to maintain a hierarchy of their own together with parishes and monasteries.

According to this article the Old Calendarists are those who use the Julian calendar sooo I can't see what I am confusing there.

Source.

 

[ExOrienteLux]

There's a fairly sizable difference. The Old Calendarists (Palaiomerologitai) schismed from their mother Church over this issue. There are, however, many who believe that the Old Calendar should be reinstated over the whole Orthodox world (myself included) and there are several Churches that still use the Julian Calendar (namely, Russia, Serbia, Jerusalem, and Romania - there's probably more, but I don't remember).

The difference is that one group are schismatics and the other group are canonical Christians who disagree with the hierarchs over their decision.

-Philip.

 

[Kolya]

I am Russian Orthodox, and we use the old Julian calendar for all fasts and feasts. To my knowledge it is the Greek aligned churches who use the New Gregorian Calendar, and the Finnish Church. I may be wrong, but I think the OCA uses the Gregorian Calendar too. but the Antiochians are Old (Julian) Calendar. As far as I am concerned, the Greek Church is out of line in using the New Gregorian calendar, but that is only my opinion.

 

[ExOrienteLux]

Antiochians are definitely NCs.

-Philip.

 

[Kolya]

Antiochians are definitely NCs.

-Philip.

Thank's Philip. So it looks like we're split down the centre on this. We have the strict fast on this Sunday - The beheading of St. John the Forerunner - on 9/11 no less!

 

[ExOrienteLux]

I think Christ and St. John are trying to tell us something.

When were the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington? 11 Sept/29 Aug.

When did Katrina make landfall on the Gulf coast? 29 Aug.

-Philip.

 

[Kolya]

I think Christ and St. John are trying to tell us something.

When were the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington? 11 Sept/29 Aug.

When did Katrina make landfall on the Gulf coast? 29 Aug.

-Philip.

I've been thinking along the same lines...

 

[prodromos]

From what I know the Greek patriarchy has excommunicated them except for the monasteries in Mount Athos.

The Old Calendarists have schismed, that is they consider the canonical church in Greece to be without grace. Naturally, the Church of Greece will not commune someone who considers their sacraments to be worthless, not that it was really necessary to excommunicate them since an Old Calendarist would never partake in a canonical church anyway.

The monasteries on Mount Athos are not Old Calendarist, they simply follow the old calendar. There are a few monasteries throughout Greece which are Old Calendarist and they are not in communion with Mount Athos. Monks from Mount Athos will not commune in those monasteries.

I'm sympathetic to the Old Calendarists' stand and wish that the church in Greece would return to the Old Calendar. I know a few priests who also desire the same. Unfortunately I don't see it happening in the near future.

John

 

[prodromos]

I think Christ and St. John are trying to tell us something.

When were the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington? 11 Sept/29 Aug.

When did Katrina make landfall on the Gulf coast? 29 Aug.

That it doesn't matter which calendar you are on?

 

[Khaleas]

I am Russian Orthodox, and we use the old Julian calendar for all fasts and feasts. To my knowledge it is the Greek aligned churches who use the New Gregorian Calendar, and the Finnish Church. I may be wrong, but I think the OCA uses the Gregorian Calendar too. but the Antiochians are Old (Julian) Calendar. As far as I am concerned, the Greek Church is out of line in using the New Gregorian calendar, but that is only my opinion.

Now don't get me started on the Finnish Ort. Church... while I love them, they need to stop thinking that they are better than anyone else celebrating Pasha with the West. I'll try to find time to translate one of the editorials by the bishops here soon.... It was surprisingly arrogant.

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

There's a fairly sizable difference. The Old Calendarists (Palaiomerologitai) schismed from their mother Church over this issue. There are, however, many who believe that the Old Calendar should be reinstated over the whole Orthodox world (myself included) and there are several Churches that still use the Julian Calendar (namely, Russia, Serbia, Jerusalem, and Romania - there's probably more, but I don't remember).

The difference is that one group are schismatics and the other group are canonical Christians who disagree with the hierarchs over their decision.

-Philip.

We in the Romanian Church, unfortunately, do actually use the New Calendar for the fixed feasts so, while I wish that it weren't the case, I have to point out an error in your post. There is an Old Calendarist Church in Romania which is in schism with us and is based at Slatioara monastery, not far from my wife's home town and I've met several of their monks.

Like John, I'm somewhat sympathetic to their stand and wish the whole Church would return to the Old Calendar, but I'm not about to run off and join them in their schism, no matter how admirable I have found many of them to be - and they certainly are. I also share John's pessimism that this will happen any time soon.

James

 

[xristos.anesti]

I belive that institution of the New (Reformed) Calendar was wrong.

I belive that Old Calendar should be re-instituted in the whole of the Orthodox Church.

I belive that going into schism for the sake of calendar is wrong.

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

I belive that institution of the New (Reformed) Calendar was wrong.

I belive that Old Calendar should be re-instituted in the whole of the Orthodox Church.

I belive that going into schism for the sake of calendar is wrong.

And I agree with you completely

 

[Nickolai]

Yeah, why should we follow what the canons say and celebrate Nativity on the 25th.

 

[xristos.anesti]

Well, we always celebrated Nativity on the 25th. (I am a Serb and our Nativity IS on the 25 Dec. It only falls on the 7 Jan - of the "worldly" calendar; the "Serbian" New Year is on the 14 Jan which is the 1 Dec of the Old Calendar).

Also, the CANONS are in regard to Pascha and not Nativity.

 

[vanshan]

Based on OST (Orthodox Standard Time), we will not know who is right and who is wrong in the old calendar/new calendar debate for several centuries, but I think the specific old calendarists you are thinking of are a more extreme schismatic group. The normal majority of old calenarists are fully canonical.

Are all the monasteries on Mt. Athos still using the Julian calendar? I thought some had changed.

Basil

 

[Nickolai]

Well, we always celebrated Nativity on the 25th. (I am a Serb and our Nativity IS on the 25 Dec. It only falls on the 7 Jan - of the "worldly" calendar; the "Serbian" New Year is on the 14 Jan which is the 1 Dec of the Old Calendar).

Also, the CANONS are in regard to Pascha and not Nativity.

the "worldy" calender? Care to show me when the Church has ever adopted it's own calender? The Julian calender is also a "worldly" calender.

And there is a canon from the 4th cantury that says anyone who celebrates Nativity on a date other than Dec. 25 is Anethema.