What does WOF believe about dancing and flag waving in worship?

[donnamabob]

This is something that I've always been very confused about. I've been taught that these things are okay to do "in the flesh" and that they usher in the presence of God, but I've always personally thought that they were distracting. Something about it just doesn't seem right to me, and when I refuse to participate, people call me "religious" and physically attempt to force me to join in. If I do join them, it's terribly awkward for me - if I don't then they act like I'm opressed or something.

Don't get me wrong, I know all about "dancing in the spirit" and I think that's great, that's not what I"m talking about though. And I also know that people in the Old testament danced before the Lord and waved flags and did all kinds of things, but now that we have the Holy Spirit living within us, shouldn't we only do these things "in the spirit"?

 

[MrBojangles]

Depends if the word tells us to do it.
If the word says to clap your hands... then clap your hands.
If the word says to stamp your feet... then stamp your feet.
If the word says to sing loud... then crank it up a notch.
We do not have to feel like obeying in order to obey. Just do it because the word says so.
Sometimes we need to renew our minds.. that means changing the way we are. The only way to do that is just do it.

 

[DMW]

I have known of Word of Faith churches (one, anyway) that had the flag waiving etc.
The large WoF church I attend doesn't do it. Brother Hagin was very much against it, and he says the Lord instructed him specifically against it. He also said the Lord was against clapping at the wrong times in a service. He details all of this in his book, "Plans, Purposes, and Pursuits."
Personally, I find the dancers and flags very distracting and not spiritual at all, but there are some who get really angry if you say that.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

This is something that I've always been very confused about. I've been taught that these things are okay to do "in the flesh" and that they usher in the presence of God, but I've always personally thought that they were distracting. Something about it just doesn't seem right to me, and when I refuse to participate, people call me "religious" and physically attempt to force me to join in. If I do join them, it's terribly awkward for me - if I don't then they act like I'm opressed or something.

Don't get me wrong, I know all about "dancing in the spirit" and I think that's great, that's not what I"m talking about though. And I also know that people in the Old testament danced before the Lord and waved flags and did all kinds of things, but now that we have the Holy Spirit living within us, shouldn't we only do these things "in the spirit"?

The one's telling you you are 'oppressed' are really just like David's wife in reverse. She scorned David for dancing before the Lord with all of his might, these people are scorning you for what they perceive as you NOT dancing before the Lord with all your might.

You can praise the Lord just as heartily standing still as one can dancing up and down the aisle. Nothing wrong with standing still, nothing wrong with dancing. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOUR HEART ATTITUDE BEFORE THE LORD!

If folks distract you, you are going to have to learn to get over it. When you goto church it's about you and your brothers and sisters coming together for mutual encouragement and fellowship together. And ALL OF YOU should be worshiping the Lord not fussing about what your neighbor is doing in their pew or in the aisle.

 

[KM Richards]

Personally, I find the dancers and flags very distracting and not spiritual at all, but there are some who get really angry if you say that.

God never changes, and in the OT He seemed to like this sort of thing...
I don't see where what Jesus did (advent of the New Testament) would
cause God to not like dancing and flag waving.

Personally, I'm probably not all that graceful to be out there dancin and
swinging a flag around...but I've seen it done tastefully and it was nice
if yer into that sort of thing...it doesn't "distract" me as I have more
control over my faculties than to allow distractions.

If something is distracting, I ignore it...maybe that's why I don't care
if they swing the flag pole and everybody starts dancing a jig

 

[Jedi.Kep]

Speaking of flag waving, I was in an Assemblies of God church in Erie back several years ago. They put on a performance during the worship service one Sunday morning that was absolutely stunning. They had dancers and flag and banner wavers all participating and it was visually beautiful as well as uplifting. The dancers and flag wavers were all 'part of the show' meaning they were not random people doing these things, but were part of the preplanned program of the service that day. They had some incredibly power visual imagery and I still remember that worship service as one of the most powerful worship services I've ever been in. Everyone did what they did as unto the Lord that day and it was extraordinary.

That said, I've been in services in other churches that were not preplanned and people just did things on their own and it was fine as well. I try to be very careful not to judge others during their worship time because that is between them and God. I don't want to be critical one way or the other.

 

[donnamabob]

I have known of Word of Faith churches (one, anyway) that had the flag waiving etc.
The large WoF church I attend doesn't do it. Brother Hagin was very much against it, and he says the Lord instructed him specifically against it. He also said the Lord was against clapping at the wrong times in a service. He details all of this in his book, "Plans, Purposes, and Pursuits."
Personally, I find the dancers and flags very distracting and not spiritual at all, but there are some who get really angry if you say that.

Thanks, I do own that book, and I'm going to re-read it to see if it can help me to better understand what I'm feeling.

 

[pdudgeon]

the whole thing here isn't whether or not it's ok to wave flags, etc.
the whole thing here is to learn how God wants you to worship Him.

God created you as an individual, in the same way that He created everyone as an individual.
There is no single or 'approved' way or style of worshiping Him.

Worship isn't just a dance or a song or a series of movements, or any of that. Worship is how we show our love and adoration for God.

Some people worship God by bowing down to Him. That's worship!
Some people sing joyfully. that's worship too.
Some people clap and cheer. yes, that's worship.
Others are overcome and lay out flat on the floor. That's worship!
Some people give money or things to the church out of gratitude for the way that God has blessed them. that's also worship. others design boquets of flowers or buildings, again inspired by their desire to worship Him.

the whole point here is that we are to worship God in every way we can, with every thing we can, every time we can.

don't worry about the 'how,' but let your outpouring of love and adoration for God be an expression of the unique person that He made you.
Nothing would please Him more.

 

[Wells Marsh]

Donnamabob, nobody should try to put pressure on you to do, or not do anything. A friend of mine used to get frustrated with me because she thought I should run when she ran, or lift my hands higher, or jump and dance, etc. I would just smile and go back to praising and worshiping. How I praise and worship Him is really no one else’s business. My friend eventually got the message.

I am very demonstrative now compared to my oh-so-proper Baptist upbringing
When I first started attending WoF, I felt positively bound by my Baptist roots. I observed others lifting their hands and wished I could be so free. I asked the Lord to help me and He did. I am still not as free as I wish to be, but the Lord is still helping me with that.

When it comes to dancing and waving flags, I was not always comfortable with this in the past. I had to remind myself to see them through God’s eyes, after all He sees our hearts. However, I visited a church two weeks ago that has changed my perspective.

This is a small church with maybe 80 in attendance. On the platform was a Praise Team consisting of about 8 persons singing and playing instruments, and they were good. The music was all Christ-centered and awesome. The lights were turned down quite a bit.

Between the pews and the platform, a number of people faced the platform and danced unto the Lord. A few of them had flags or scarves and were waving them as they danced unto the Lord. There was a large group of young men and women, off to one side, which were very enthusiastic in their praise and worship. A number of individuals went forward to place offerings in a bowl and stayed long enough to pray over their offerings before depositing them into the bowl. A number of individuals went to the Altar and knelt in prayer, some of them were joined by others who felt led to pray for them. All of these persons were obviously on fire for the Lord.

Those in the pews expressed themselves in less demonstrative ways, but you could sense their sincerity and their tremendous love for Jesus. I have never before witnessed such freedom in a Praise & Worship service and the anointing was as strong as I have ever experienced it. I came into whole-hearted agreement with the congregation, and was blessed. Glory to God!

 

[donnamabob]

Thanks everyone, I really do feel like I'm starting to get a little bit more direction here. Let me just say that I'm not trying to be judgmental here, I'm just trying to learn.​

Two nights ago, I attended a meeting held by Roy Fields in Albany, NY and I observed a few significant things that also gave me some direction.​

1) Roy asked everyone to get up out of their seats and basically join the expressive worship in the front. My fiance and I really didn't want to and hesitated at our seats towards the back until the social pressure became too much and we gave in. Someone noticed this and immediately made a judgment on our spiritual condition and followed us around for the rest of the night trying to help us. His heart was in the right place, but it was extremely awkward for us.​

2) I realized that you can actually discern people who are worshiping in the spirit from those who are not. I learned that the ones who are truly worshiping from their hearts and losing themselves in the Lord are uplifting and inspiring, and those who were just trying to fit the mold of a charasmatic were just obnoxious. For example, there was a woman behind me who kept going back and forth between casually chatting with her friend (loudly) and singing at the top of her lungs and screaming. This literally made it impossible for me to focus on the worship because she was so distracting. There was also a dancing lady that stood out to me because something about her actions led me to believe that she was "faking it" and she just looked like she'd lost her mind....but there were other dancers that I saw that were doing basically the same thing and it was beautiful.​

While I was there, I remembered Acts 16:16-18 where Paul cast out a spirit of divination from the girl that was following him around proclaiming that he was a man of God. Not that I'm suggesting that these people have a spirit of divination, but it reminded me that even though people may appear to be behaving in a spiritual manner, it's not always the case - and vice versa, which is why we need discernment.​

I also remembered that the Lord gave me a word through a prophet about 5 years ago. It was a long word, but in part of it he instructed me to do as he tells me to do, and specified that when he says to jump up I am to jump up and when he says to turn around I am to turn around. I always thought it was more metaphorical then anything, but I realized that its actually very literal. I realized that he was saying that he wants me to worship as he leads me, and not how think I'm supposed to, or how someone else tells me I'm supposed to. This makes sense to me since we're supposed to be spirit lead in all that we do.​

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Wells Marsh]

Donnamabob;

I only have one thought. Focus on yourself. Do not try to “discern” another’s behavior or motives, etc. Believe the best of others (1Corinthians 13:4-8a). For instance, what if the Lord is leading me to join in the “dancing unto the Lord” and I have never done it before. I may feel a bit awkward at first and very self-conscious. It may take effort on my part to enter the flow of the Holy Spirit. I would hate to think someone was making any conclusions based on my efforts to be obedient. When I was asked to join the Praise Team, it took the Lord weeks to get me past my shyness and to actually enjoy leading Praise & Worship.

Blessings

 

[Teclils]

you should attend a Jewish celebration some time..this is where we get the dancing and waving of the flags etc...

if you recall after the Isrealites crossed the red sea and Pharoh was killed Mariam danced and sang...it is to celebrate the LORD...it should not be about flesh

 

[Jedi.Kep]

Thanks everyone, I really do feel like I'm starting to get a little bit more direction here. Let me just say that I'm not trying to be judgmental here, I'm just trying to learn.

We all are trying to learn.

Two nights ago, I attended a meeting held by Roy Fields in Albany, NY and I observed a few significant things that also gave me some direction.

​

1) Roy asked everyone to get up out of their seats and basically join the expressive worship in the front. My fiance and I really didn't want to and hesitated at our seats towards the back until the social pressure became too much and we gave in. Someone noticed this and immediately made a judgment on our spiritual condition and followed us around for the rest of the night trying to help us. His heart was in the right place, but it was extremely awkward for us.
​

If I can tell you a little story here...seven years ago, I began attending my current church and they had an altar call at the front. There were quite a few people up front praying at the altar and others in the congregation went forward to 'help' pray for them.

There was one individual who started praying for this one couple and he began shouting/screaming "RECEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIVE! REEEEECEEEEEIIIIVE! (receive)" This was wierd and I remember to this day, the pastor looking over at him like, "What are you doing?"

The couple this 'screamer' was praying for, clearly was uncomfortable. The pastor, graciously, went over as soon as he could and helped settle things down. The 'screamer' got bored and sat down, but the pastor ministered to the couple and they were properly ministered to.

I'd define the 'screamer' as 'one of those people'. You have them in every church but expecially in pentecostal, charismatic churches. Their heart is truly out to help people, but their methods are usually less than effective.

Your extending of grace to this person trying to 'help' you is awsome and shows the kind heart that you have.
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2) I realized that you can actually discern people who are worshiping in the spirit from those who are not. I learned that the ones who are truly worshiping from their hearts and losing themselves in the Lord are uplifting and inspiring, and those who were just trying to fit the mold of a charasmatic were just obnoxious.

YES! I could not have worded that better. That is exactly right.

For example, there was a woman behind me who kept going back and forth between casually chatting with her friend (loudly) and singing at the top of her lungs and screaming. This literally made it impossible for me to focus on the worship because she was so distracting. There was also a dancing lady that stood out to me because something about her actions led me to believe that she was "faking it" and she just looked like she'd lost her mind....but there were other dancers that I saw that were doing basically the same thing and it was beautiful.

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Wisdom and discernment in action. When I encounter the 'wierd' moments, I just have to laugh at God's creation and how he made us with a sense of humor. People are just funny!

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While I was there, I remembered Acts 16:16-18 where Paul cast out a spirit of divination from the girl that was following him around proclaiming that he was a man of God. Not that I'm suggesting that these people have a spirit of divination, but it reminded me that even though people may appear to be behaving in a spiritual manner, it's not always the case - and vice versa, which is why we need discernment.

Right on brother.

I also remembered that the Lord gave me a word through a prophet about 5 years ago. It was a long word, but in part of it he instructed me to do as he tells me to do, and specified that when he says to jump up I am to jump up and when he says to turn around I am to turn around. I always thought it was more metaphorical then anything, but I realized that its actually very literal. I realized that he was saying that he wants me to worship as he leads me, and not how think I'm supposed to, or how someone else tells me I'm supposed to. This makes sense to me since we're supposed to be spirit lead in all that we do.

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Any thoughts on this?

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Yes, God is supposed to be leading us and guiding us in all that we do and that does include worship.

Honestly, I totally understand where you are at. There is a freedom that God does want us all to experience and I think that is a freedom from what people think of us. Being scared to lift your hands during worship because you don't want people to think you're wierd, IS a bondage. There is no greater freedom when you can finally break free of those shackles and dance and sing before the Lord and before Him only. It is a freedom like no other and it is awsome. It's like when you have the radio on at home and once in a while, when no one is home, you turn loose and dance around and just have fun with the song and the music. It's that type of freedom and that is where the Holy Spirit want's us all to be when we worship God.

In our humanity, we tend to think that in EVERY service we should be just as 'free' and that just simply isn't the truth. We don't have to 'put on a show' just to prove to other people how spiritual we are, and that is what happens more often than not. With how much you mentioned on how you are judged for NOT dancing and whirling, this is a big issue for people in your church and will lead to excess and just plain wierdness. Be cautious and don't give in to the pressures of people.

From all you said, your heart is in the right place. Teachable and questioning. You clearly want to do the right thing and not get into excess. Don't let people pressure you into forced and fake worship excercise. But don't let your flesh shackel you with fear either. Keep the balance and stay in the middle of the road, and you will be blessed and become a blessing.

I hope my rambling is able to be a blessing to you.​

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[pdudgeon]

you're absolutely right. it's fine for a pastor to invite people to join in worship, but he should give them a chance to discover exactly how God wants them to join in.

God isn't located in the front of the worship service any more than He is located in the back.
Wherever people are seated or standing or laying down, God can be found.

 

[donnamabob]

We all are trying to learn.​

If I can tell you a little story here...seven years ago, I began attending my current church and they had an altar call at the front. There were quite a few people up front praying at the altar and others in the congregation went forward to 'help' pray for them.​

There was one individual who started praying for this one couple and he began shouting/screaming "RECEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIVE! REEEEECEEEEEIIIIVE! (receive)" This was wierd and I remember to this day, the pastor looking over at him like, "What are you doing?"​

The couple this 'screamer' was praying for, clearly was uncomfortable. The pastor, graciously, went over as soon as he could and helped settle things down. The 'screamer' got bored and sat down, but the pastor ministered to the couple and they were properly ministered to.​

I'd define the 'screamer' as 'one of those people'. You have them in every church but expecially in pentecostal, charismatic churches. Their heart is truly out to help people, but their methods are usually less than effective.​

Your extending of grace to this person trying to 'help' you is awsome and shows the kind heart that you have.​

YES! I could not have worded that better. That is exactly right.​

Wisdom and discernment in action. When I encounter the 'wierd' moments, I just have to laugh at God's creation and how he made us with a sense of humor. People are just funny!​

Right on brother.​

Yes, God is supposed to be leading us and guiding us in all that we do and that does include worship.​

Honestly, I totally understand where you are at. There is a freedom that God does want us all to experience and I think that is a freedom from what people think of us. Being scared to lift your hands during worship because you don't want people to think you're wierd, IS a bondage. There is no greater freedom when you can finally break free of those shackles and dance and sing before the Lord and before Him only. It is a freedom like no other and it is awsome. It's like when you have the radio on at home and once in a while, when no one is home, you turn loose and dance around and just have fun with the song and the music. It's that type of freedom and that is where the Holy Spirit want's us all to be when we worship God.​

In our humanity, we tend to think that in EVERY service we should be just as 'free' and that just simply isn't the truth. We don't have to 'put on a show' just to prove to other people how spiritual we are, and that is what happens more often than not. With how much you mentioned on how you are judged for NOT dancing and whirling, this is a big issue for people in your church and will lead to excess and just plain wierdness. Be cautious and don't give in to the pressures of people.​

From all you said, your heart is in the right place. Teachable and questioning. You clearly want to do the right thing and not get into excess. Don't let people pressure you into forced and fake worship excercise. But don't let your flesh shackel you with fear either. Keep the balance and stay in the middle of the road, and you will be blessed and become a blessing.​

I hope my rambling is able to be a blessing to you. ​

Wow, I could not have asked for a more encouraging and uplifting response! Thank you so very much I can assure you that your 'rambling' really is a blessing to me. I'm so grateful for the true men and women of God that I'm encountering on this forum that are helping to shape and guide me as a Christian.

 

[donnamabob]

you're absolutely right. it's fine for a pastor to invite people to join in worship, but he should give them a chance to discover exactly how God wants them to join in.

God isn't located in the front of the worship service any more than He is located in the back.
Wherever people are seated or standing or laying down, God can be found.

You make a great point, thank you so much for your thoughts

 

[Stoopot, Lord of Mice]

The one's telling you you are 'oppressed' are really just like David's wife in reverse. She scorned David for dancing before the Lord with all of his might, these people are scorning you for what they perceive as you NOT dancing before the Lord with all your might.

You can praise the Lord just as heartily standing still as one can dancing up and down the aisle. Nothing wrong with standing still, nothing wrong with dancing. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOUR HEART ATTITUDE BEFORE THE LORD!

If folks distract you, you are going to have to learn to get over it. When you goto church it's about you and your brothers and sisters coming together for mutual encouragement and fellowship together. And ALL OF YOU should be worshiping the Lord not fussing about what your neighbor is doing in their pew or in the aisle.

This is a great post. I would rep you but I only have a point!

If something is forced it is not worship, it is manipulation. If people are saying YOU MUST USE A FLAG, they are not showing the Spirit of Christ.

IMHO, flag waving can be a form of worship but can (possibly more often) also be a distraction from worship and the Word of God.

 

[Glenda]

I'm a flag waver.. not by choice.. but by the call of the Holy Spirit..

I had a hard time believing that He wanted 'me' to worship in this way.. I'm not young.. I don't like to be up in front of people.. and I've always thought that I was born with 2 left feet..

But then the music would start.. and my foot wouldstart to tap.. and so I started waving & dancing in the back.. until I went to a conference.. and there was a lady there.. a little older than me.. and I spoke to her about the Holy Spirit leading me to wave.. she said.. you can't lead the army from the rear.. eek!

So I started going up front.. waiting for the Holy Spirit's lead.. and have been waving for many years now.. it is not to be seen by anyone but God.. in fact, most times I am so lost in Him that I don't even know anyone else is there ( though I do keep an eye out for anyone that might be passing by.. So I don't clobber them..

I believe we each should worship God in the way that He leads us to.. whether that is with flags.. with song or instruments.. or just quietly at our seats..