What does one say when an Orthodox Bishop or Priest sneezes?

[MariaRegina]

http://www.theoniondome.com/2004/05/14/vv/


A few years ago, I attended the Sunday of Orthodoxy Vespers when a priest nearby sneezed, I was just about the only one who responded, "God bless you."

I wondered why the Orthodox don't say, "God bless you."

Do you think the only appropriate and inoffensive response would be:

Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us and save us.

Wouldn't this also be appropriate if someone (or some animal) passes wind or burps in public?

I just finished a course in pragmatics - so we were discussing felicity conditions like this.

Looking forward to your responses

Yours truly in the Risen Lord,
Elizabeth

 

[Oblio]

Is Outrage ?

 

[Philip]

I believe I remember someone suggesting 'You're soooo good looking' as a better thing to say after someone sneezes, but that doesn't seem appropriate here.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Oblio,

If the Bishop sneezed would you say, "Is outrage!" ?

 

[Suzannah]

Allright now I asked my daughter about this. She says that if someone is about to sneeze, you should say "Cucumber" and that stops it...but then she said:

"maybe that's for hiccoughs. I forget!"

 

[MariaRegina]

Allright now I asked my daughter about this. She says that if someone is about to sneeze, you should say "Cucumber" and that stops it...but then she said:

"maybe that's for hiccoughs. I forget!"

Sounds like the hiccough cure.

 

[Matrona]

What does one say when an Orthodox Bishop or Priest sneezes?

(Somebody let me know if I have any of this wrong--I'm still a baby in the Orthodox Faith, and I can't always learn by osmosis. )

Technically, when a priest or bishop blesses us, is it true that he's not really "blessing" us himself--he's really, as a servant of God, asking God to bless this member of his flock?

And when we pray for our hierarchs, we're asking God to bless them as well, right?

So why would it be wrong for us to pray for our priests and bishops openly, especially when we are keeping alive one of my favorite cultural traditions?

The difference is that it's not really appropriate for a priest or bishop to have to ask for the blessing of the members of his flock--and he's not. All he did was sneeze!

How can it be wrong for one of us to openly ask for God's blessing upon someone? That's why saying "Bless you!" when someone sneezes is one of my favorite little traditions. How sweet is that--wishing good health upon someone! It's an act of kindness and consideration!

Sorry if anyone finds this offensive, but this sounds a lot like Gulliver's Travels, where the two factions are killing each other over which end of the egg should they slice off, the wide end or the pointy one.

 

[prodromos]

The proper response to a Priest or Bishop sneezing depends on what juresdiction you happen to be in, what language they sneezed in, and whether or not it happens during Vespers or Diving Liturgy .

 

[Michael G]

IF the Bishop speaks German, as I personally know atleast 1 of the OCA Bishops does, you could say "Gesundheit" which means health, and totally get arround the whole blessing thing altogether?

 

[+++ICXCNIKA+++]

You would say whatever you say to a normal person that sneezes... after all they are people too..... not God.
For instance in Serbian when someone sneezes we say nazdravlje which means in good health. When saying God Bless you to a priest it is meant with good intentions, not as an insult... lets not start making rules and regulations like some pharasees... God bless you all

 

[Oblio]

I remeber reading somewhere that the custom of saying 'God bless you' came because it was though that a person sneezing had a demon dwelling within them. If true, this more than likely came from medieval superstitions.

 

[Sephania]

Actually it goes something like this:

When a person sneezees their heart stops beating thus giving the Devil a chance to take their souls. G-d Bless You was apparently said to ward off the Devil and protect the sneezer from evil.

Many cultures believe that the person's soul or vital essences were leaving them through their mouth at the time of the sneeze, so a companion would pray in order to restore their health. The same holds true in European tradition, and most likely roots from the time of the Plague.

People were dying left and right during the Plague and many in Europe were fearful that this was a punishment from G-dso when they heard someone sneeze they feared that that person wasn't far from death and so asked the L-RD to bless them, hoping to restore their health and in some cases, hoping to avoid catching it from them.

In Israel they say in response to a sneeze "labriyut" which means "to your health".

I found this from the church regarding where this came from:

The custom of saying "G-d bless you" when someone has sneezed, and the making of the Sign of the Cross on the mouths of those who yawn, goes back to the days of Saint Gregory and the Roman plague. The dread disease always ended in a spasm of sneezing or yawning, and the holy Pontiff ordered that "G-d bless you" should be said to those who sneeze, and the blessing of the Sign of the Cross should be put on the mouths of those who yawned.

Might I suggest that the reason no one else said G-d Bless you to the Bishop was because they thought he might be sneezing because of the incense? I have heard that it causes sneezing and perhaps they didn't want to embarrass him by drawing attention to him sneezing, as I understand this is something you need to get used to?

Just a couple shekels.

 

[Oblio]

Thanks for the info Zayit.

I've always liked incense and have not had to get used to it . IIRC we have some threads started or populated by aria that speak to the issue of what causes irritaion WRT incense.

 

[Sephania]

You are welcome!

What is your incense made of? Is it natural, like frankincense or mhyrr ( sp?) I've always wondered about that. Our annointing oil is made of those resins and is quite powerful! BUt I guess the L-RD likes the smell

 

[Oblio]

We use frankincense. I brought back a 1/2 kilo from a little Russian next door to the church of the Holy Sepulcher. I was able to both lay it on the slab that Christ was taken down from the Cross and bring it in the Tomb itself I hope I can go back for more when we run out

Some Orthodox also use incense that has been rolled with various odiferous powders and aromatic oils (IIRC). I think this is more the Greek tradition, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Oblio]

Our annointing oil is made of those resins and is quite powerful!

We have special resins in ours also. A single batch is made and blessed each year and distributed centrally throughout the Church for Sacramental use by parishes.

 

[Sephania]

Cool, kinda like the recipe given to Aaron and the preisthood? One of my bottles is supposed to have followed that ancient recipe.

 

[Suzannah]

Cool, kinda like the recipe given to Aaron and the preisthood? One of my bottles is supposed to have followed that ancient recipe.

How interesting!!! Thanks for the above background info...I did not know that about how the saying came about....

The incense we use is handmade from a monestery...I think it's base is frankincense and they also add essential aromatic oils ....it has never really bothered me but it's interesting fact: I have a desensitized nose. Seriously! I spent years as a sailor, and the fumes from engines and all that, decreases ones natural sense of smell...it also leads to a strange predilection for "new allergies". But I have never had a problem with the incense at our church , don't sneeze or anything and I can actually smell it, it smells wonderful to me, and I have no problems healthwise! Whereas, I am allergic to many perfumes that women wear, cannot really smell them, but they irritate my sinuses and give me fits! Same thing with the common incense sold to the public. Odd huh??? It may have something to do with synthetic chemicals being used as opposed to the all natural , but all the same, it's wierd I can smell one and not the other and the one I can't smell is the one that gags...

 

[Oblio]

Then the bishop enters the Sanctuary and goes on with the
Liturgy. At the Church of the Dormition in Moscow and in the Lavra of the Caves at Kiev
(Kievo-Pecherskaya Lavra) there takes place on Holy Thursday the consecration of the myrrh or
chrism which is used in all the churches in Russia for the Sacraments of Confirmation, at the
consecration of churches and Antiminses, and at the coronation of a Tsar. The preparation of the
ingredients begins from the week of the Veneration of the Cross. The ingredients are: olive oil,
wine, sweet-smelling oils, various kinds of incense and herbs (thirty in all). The oil is emblem-atic
of mercy, the wine of Christ’s Blood, the perfumes symbolize the manifold gifts of the Holy
Spirit. From Monday of the Holy Week, the mixture of oil and wine simmers in kettles to the
continuous reading of the Gospels. On Wednesday the aromatic ingredients are added and the
myrrh is poured out of the kettles into vessels. On Thursday, before the Liturgy, the bishop and
priests, in full canonicals, transfer the vessels containing the new myrrh and a vessel containing
last year’s myrrh to the church, and place them on and around the Table of Oblations. At the
great procession with the
Holy Gifts, the vessels with the myrrh are also transferred from the
Table of Oblations to the altar. The vessel with last year’s myrrh is placed upon the altar; the
vessels with the new myrrh are disposed around it.
After the exclamation “And may the mercies of the Lord, our God and Saviour, Jesus
Christ, be with you all!” the consecration of the myrrh takes place. The bishop blesses each
vessel thrice with the words “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”
then prays that the Lord “may send down upon the myrrh the grace of the Holy Spirit, and make
it a spiritual anointment, a repository of life, a sanctification of bodies and souls, an oil of
gladness.” After the Ectenia of Supplication and commemoration of all the Saints, the myrrh is
taken into the repository of sacred vessels. There, into each vessel of new myrrh are poured a
few drops of the old myrrh, and the vessel which holds the latter is replenished with new myrrh.
This is done, in token of the uninterrupted connection of the Russian Church with the Greek,
from which she received the grace of priesthood in the person of her first bishop and also re-ceived
the first consecrated myrrh.


From :

A Manual of Divine Services
Archpriest D. Sokolof Holy Trinity Monastery. Jordanville, NY

 

[Michael G]

You would say whatever you say to a normal person that sneezes... after all they are people too..... not God.
For instance in Serbian when someone sneezes we say nazdravlje which means in good health. When saying God Bless you to a priest it is meant with good intentions, not as an insult... lets not start making rules and regulations like some pharasees... God bless you all

The whole post is a joke. Take a look at http://www.theoniondome.com and esp read under the heading "The Point"