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What do you think of concubinage?

Sphinx777

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Concubinage is the state of a woman in an ongoing, usually matrimonially-oriented relationship with a man who cannot be married to her, often because of a difference in social status.

A concubine is generally a woman in an ongoing, matrimonial-like relationship with a man, whom she cannot marry for any reason. The reason may be because she is of lower social rank than the man or because the man is already married. Generally, only men of high economic and social status have concubines. Many historical Asian, European and Middle Eastern rulers maintained concubines as well as wives.

Historically, concubinage was frequently voluntary (by the woman and/or her family's arrangement), as it provided a measure of economic security for the woman involved. Involuntary, or servile, concubinage sometimes involves sexual slavery of one member of the relationship, typically the woman, being a pleasure slave to the man.

Where it has a legal status, as in ancient Rome, and in ancient China, concubinage is akin, although inferior, to marriage. In opposition to those laws, traditional Western laws do not acknowledge the legal status of concubines, rather only admitting monogamous marriages. Any other relationship does not enjoy legal protection; the woman is essentially a mistress.

Among the Israelites, it was common for men to acknowledge their concubines, and such women enjoyed the same rights in the house as legitimate wives. The principal difference in the Bible between a wife and a concubine is that wives had dowries, while concubines did not.

The concubine commanded the same respect and inviolability as the wife, and it was regarded as the deepest dishonour, for the man to whom she belonged, if other hands were laid upon her; David is portrayed as having become greatly dishonoured when his concubines had a sexual relationship with Absalom.

Since it was regarded as the highest blessing to have many children, while the greatest curse was childlessness, legitimate wives often gave their maids to their husbands to atone, at least in part, for their own barrenness, as in the cases of Sarah and Hagar, Leah and Zilpah, Rachel and Bilhah. The children of the concubine had equal rights with those of the legitimate wife; for example, king Abimelech was the son of Gideon and his concubine.

Several biblical figures are portrayed as resorting to concubinage when they were not able to create natural children with their wives. The most famous example of this was with Abraham and Sarah. In the account, Sarah, feeling guilty about her inability to give Abraham children, gave her female slave - Hagar - to Abraham, and Ishmael resulted from the union; later, Sarah becomes fertile, and gives birth to Isaac, so she forces Abraham to exile Ishmael and Hagar into the desert.

Later biblical figures such as Gideon, David, and Solomon had concubines in addition to many childbearing wives. For example, the Book of Kings claims that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In Judaism, concubines are referred to by the Hebrew term pilegesh. This is etymologically related to the Aramaic phrase palga isha, meaning half-wife. A cognate term later appeared in Greek as the loan word pallax/pallakis.

According to the Babylonian Talmud, the difference between a concubine and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrew: ketubah) and her marriage (nissu'in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (erusin), neither being the case for a concubine. However, one opinion in the Palestinian Talmud argues that the concubine should also receive a marriage contract, but without including a clause specifying a divorce settlement.

Certain Jewish thinkers, such as Maimonides, believe that concubines are strictly reserved for kings, and thus that a commoner may not have a concubine; indeed, such thinkers argue that commoners may not engage in any type of sexual relations outside of a marriage. Shortly before Maimonides had reached this view, Sunni Muslims officially prohibited mutah relationships (which are similar to concubinage relationships); some therefore suggest that Maimonides view was in response to this, in a similar way to Gershom ben Judah's ban on polygamy only being made after Christians had prohibited it.

Maimonides was not the first Jewish thinker to criticise concubinage; for example, it is severely condemned in Leviticus Rabbah. Other Jewish thinkers, such as Nahmanides, Samuel ben Uri Shraga Phoebus, and Jacob Emden, strongly object to the idea that concubines should be forbidden.

In the Hebrew of the contemporary State of Israel, the word pilegesh is often used as the equivalent of the English word mistress - i.e. the female partner in extramarital relations, even when these relations have no legal recognition. There are attempts there to popularise pilegesh as a form of premarital, non-marital and extramarital relationships which (in their view) would be permitted by Jewish religious law.


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chingchang

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I honestly do not know how a single girl can sleep with another woman's husband and not be an adulteress.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

Perhaps a study of OT sexual ethics will show you how. In OT times...the woman was the PROPERTY of the man...not the other way around. We can argue about whether the teachings of Paul change that...but that is not the point.

CC
 
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DamianWarS

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Perhaps a study of OT sexual ethics will show you how. In OT times...the woman was the PROPERTY of the man...not the other way around. We can argue about whether the teachings of Paul change that...but that is not the point.

CC

just becuase OT culture condoned and practiced this it doesn't make it right. I don't care if it was Jacob or david who did it, it still doesn't make it right. Judah had sex with his daughter-in-law Tamar who was posing as a prostitute. Tamar than had a child and from that line Jesus was born. But none of that makes it right. Regardless of what you think of what was done in OT culture, we don't live in OT culture and we need to live and act in the context of today's culture.

There are a lot of cultural sins that are here today that we also need to live above and a lot of these sins are within our churches today. Have you ever walked in a church and felt like you didn't belong there like everyone was too high and mighty for you all dressed up in their 3-piece suits, raising their hands, and yelling random amens every chance they get. There are behaviors that we just learn from our own cultures and act upon them without even knowing that we are doing them. Just like in a different time and culture they did the same thing. But in the end some of these things do not help us love God or show God's love to other and so because of that they are sin.

Everything needs to be measured first by how we can love God through it, then how we can love our neighbor through it and if our neighbor lives in a different culture than we need to love him within the guileless of that culture but always God first not culture.
 
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Webers_Home

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†. Ex 20:14 . .Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Webster's defines adultery as: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife and/or between a married woman and someone other than her husband.

None of the commandments that I'm aware of limit the number of wives a man may have; but then concubines are not wives.

In all fairness, though, it should be pointed out that Biblical law doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction (Gal 3:17) viz: it isn't retroactive; so married men who shacked up with concubines prior to Moses can't be prosecuted for adultery.

†. Rom 4:15 . .where no commandments exist; there is no transgression.

†. Rom 5:13 . . For until the commandments, sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
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D

dies-l

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I honestly do not know how a single girl can sleep with another woman's husband and not be an adulteress.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

you mean hookers, harlots, prostitutes....

think the good book covers that.....

I noticed that the first two negative comments made about this issue focus on the woman's immorality

I tend to think that any social system that thinks of women as property to be acquired by men is morally abhorrent. In such systems and personal arrangements, however, it is generally not the moral behavior of the women that troubles me, but that of men. What I find particularly bothersome about the quoted posts is the seeming assumption, which is oft promoted by our culture, that sexual immorality is primarily the fault of women.

Interestingly enough, Jesus and Paul, as sexist as they are often accused of being, both sought to correct many of the sexually exploitative practices of the day. Jesus' teachings on divorce in Matthew 5 and 19 appear to be aimed at correcting the accepting practice in which men abandoned their wives whenever they wanted a new one. Paul, in 1 Cor. 7 and Eph. 5, explains that husbands and wives belong to one another mutually. This is in opposition to the prevailing idea of his day (and strangely in our own, among some conservative Christian groups) that marriage was essentially a one way relationship wherein the wife is essentially property of her husband, obliged to submit, while the husband was free to with her as he pleased.

Sadly, even if unintentionally, these posts, which treat this issue as a moral failing primarily of women, perpetuate the same destructive system that Jesus and Paul sought to correct.
 
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chingchang

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just becuase OT culture condoned and practiced this it doesn't make it right. I don't care if it was Jacob or david who did it, it still doesn't make it right.

What is "right"? The question as far as I'm concerned is "is it a sin?". If it isn't a sin...then we have liberty to partake with a clean conscious if we choose to.

Judah had sex with his daughter-in-law Tamar who was posing as a prostitute. Tamar than had a child and from that line Jesus was born. But none of that makes it right.

It doesn't make it wrong either.

Regardless of what you think of what was done in OT culture, we don't live in OT culture and we need to live and act in the context of today's culture.

Say's who? Why? I believe there is nothing wrong with concubinage in and of itself. I believe Godly men can partake of concubinage and not sin. However...I don't believe it is a wise choice. It isn't a wise choice to drink 4 Cokes a day...but I don't believe it is a sin to do that.

There are a lot of cultural sins that are here today that we also need to live above and a lot of these sins are within our churches today. Have you ever walked in a church and felt like you didn't belong there like everyone was too high and mighty for you all dressed up in their 3-piece suits, raising their hands, and yelling random amens every chance they get. There are behaviors that we just learn from our own cultures and act upon them without even knowing that we are doing them. Just like in a different time and culture they did the same thing. But in the end some of these things do not help us love God or show God's love to other and so because of that they are sin.

I'm with you....sorta.

Everything needs to be measured first by how we can love God through it, then how we can love our neighbor through it and if our neighbor lives in a different culture than we need to love him within the guileless of that culture but always God first not culture.

O.k...but how does that specifically apply to the practice of concubinage? I maintain that it can be done in a loving way that honors God. You'd have to prove otherwise to label it sin.

CC
 
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lawtonfogle

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As to getting into technical definitions, the problem is this. Words don't always translate well. What if, in German, what they call someone you are married to a 'life partner', not a husband/wife? Does that mean it is adultery to have sexual relations with this life partner, based on a mere technicality? No. With concubinage, it seems that while there was a different word, they were still a wife in all ways except for the name.
 
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dayhiker

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I don't see the Bible saying concubinage to be a sin. I don't see a patriarchal society to be inheriently sinful. Tho I have no desire to live as a patriarch, I much prefer a mutual respect and lets talk this out and come to an agreement type of thing. But in Bible days, the men decided many things and the women just agreed. Tho a woman that strongly disagreed could sometimes effect the man's chioce I'm sure. So in OT days most of the great men of God had concubines or more than one wife. They say no contradiction with a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife. Ofcourse even the leaving wasn't usually much more than moving into a room that was added onto the house.

So I see no inherate command in the Bible that makes concubinage a sin. If the man didn't treat anyone in his household in a loving way then I'd say that was a sin.

dayhiker
 
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Armistead14

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I don't see the Bible saying concubinage to be a sin. I don't see a patriarchal society to be inheriently sinful. Tho I have no desire to live as a patriarch, I much prefer a mutual respect and lets talk this out and come to an agreement type of thing. But in Bible days, the men decided many things and the women just agreed. Tho a woman that strongly disagreed could sometimes effect the man's chioce I'm sure. So in OT days most of the great men of God had concubines or more than one wife. They say no contradiction with a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife. Ofcourse even the leaving wasn't usually much more than moving into a room that was added onto the house.

So I see no inherate command in the Bible that makes concubinage a sin. If the man didn't treat anyone in his household in a loving way then I'd say that was a sin.

dayhiker

I agree

Concubines social status and polygamy were both approved by God if we believe the OT, because many laws were given regarding these. The priest say the laws were given by God. If we ignore that these were given by God, we need not follow or believe any of the books of the OT.

We also have to understand it was more of a cultural issue. Many men were killed in battle. I once did a study, can't recall the exact numbers, but women grossly outnumbered men. Concubinage and polygamy were needed to insure the protection and survival of many woman and children.

We can't think about it with our American minds as we just see the sexual factors involved. The fact is it was a system of provision. Like it of not woman were the property of the man. Not so much like slavery, but the father had total authority over the daughter, after marriage the husband.

This really didn't change in the NT much. In fact there is nothing in the NT calling concubinage or polygamy sin. In fact it continued in the church for hundreds of years after Christ. It was only put away by a Pope to protect the property of the church.

One verse clears it up even more showing polygamy continued. The bible says Deacons must be the husband of one wife. This had nothing to do with remarriage. Polygamy was the norm. Paul did change that for church leaders, stating that they should only have one wife. If they had many, it would deter their work, so he limited only church leaders to one wife.

However, the reason for concubines and polygamy slowly died out, but that doesn't make them sinful when they were used. Many tribes in places like Africa are polygamous and it works well to insure woman and children are provided for. Their minds aren't warped by all the sexual dysfunction we have in America..

Overall neither are needed today. I guess concubinage in some fashion has now become living together as many do.
 
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Sphinx777

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harem_flower.jpg


:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
 
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wannabeadesigirl

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@Sphinx: That is a GORGEOUS picture!!! LOVE it!

I believe it depends on the time and the culture. In Africa there's so much war and strife that in order to protect women they have to live in polygamous relationships. In Western cultures that's not nessecary. Perhaps I believe some sins are culture bound.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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The fact that Paul asks us to have one husband or one wife, I think we can safely say that polygamy is not in God's plans for us.

As for sins being cultural, I am not so sure that's what scripture teaches, especially the teachings of Christ seeing as we are all under it. I think people use culture as a crutch to say that "we do this in my culture and no one things nothing of it, therefore it's not as sinful". But I don't think God bases His judgment based on the agreement of men when it comes to sin, but by His word that He gave us in scripture.
 
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wannabeadesigirl

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The fact that Paul asks us to have one husband or one wife, I think we can safely say that polygamy is not in God's plans for us.

As for sins being cultural, I am not so sure that's what scripture teaches, especially the teachings of Christ seeing as we are all under it. I think people use culture as a crutch to say that "we do this in my culture and no one things nothing of it, therefore it's not as sinful". But I don't think God bases His judgment based on the agreement of men when it comes to sin, but by His word that He gave us in scripture.
C.S. Lewis once wrote that in some cultures men take multiple wives. In other cultures they only take one. What both cultures agree with is the concept that taking another mans wife is wrong.
The basics found within the ten commandments are inherit in most cultures (and no I know the ten commandments aren't world wide, but their concepts are), but there are cultural twists bound to each.
 
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KCKID

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The fact that Paul asks us to have one husband or one wife, I think we can safely say that polygamy is not in God's plans for us.

Oh-oh ...we seem to be equating Paul with God again. I wonder how he would feel knowing that people in the year 2010 actually believe him to have been God ...?

The FACTS are that - unless the OT is merely the writings and the opinions of men - God DID approve of polygamy. There is no getting away from that. Again, that's if God dictated what the writers of the OT should write.

As for sins being cultural, I am not so sure that's what scripture teaches, especially the teachings of Christ seeing as we are all under it. I think people use culture as a crutch to say that "we do this in my culture and no one things nothing of it, therefore it's not as sinful". But I don't think God bases His judgment based on the agreement of men when it comes to sin, but by His word that He gave us in scripture.

So, all cultures that differ in moral values from those of your culture are to be considered 'sinful'? Check out the Sambian culture sometime. This involves homosexual child sex initiation and is considered by those people as being culturally 'okay'. The children become 'warriors' through several years of such initiation. It would appear that NO ONE is adversely affected - psychologically or otherwise - by these practices.

So, cultures appear to be 'immune' from the 'sinful' tag, many of which have never even heard of 'the scriptures'.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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Oh-oh ...we seem to be equating Paul with God again. I wonder how he would feel knowing that people in the year 2010 actually believe him to have been God ...?
I assume God will feel like this:
Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.​

And I didn't equate Paul with God, I equated God with the Holy Spirit, for it was through Him scriptures were written.

The FACTS are that - unless the OT is merely the writings and the opinions of men - God DID approve of polygamy. There is no getting away from that. Again, that's if God dictated what the writers of the OT should write.
Yes, God allowed it, the same way He allowed ignorance, but nowhere are we told that He approved it. But alas, we are not under the OT, we are under the new covenant of Christ.

Of Which Christ affirmed this in Matthew 19:4-6
He answered, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh? So they are no longer TWO but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."​


So, all cultures that differ in moral values from those of your culture are to be considered 'sinful'? Check out the Sambian culture sometime. This involves homosexual child sex initiation and is considered by those people as being culturally 'okay'. The children become 'warriors' through several years of such initiation. It would appear that NO ONE is adversely affected - psychologically or otherwise - by these practices.
Did it ever occur to you why the same things are sin to both Jews and Gentiles in scripture? Because "sin" is not based on what man thinks, it is based on what God says. You can get an entire nation to agree on a moral concept, you just raise them that way, but if what they practice is a sin to God, it's a sin regardless of culture. Regardless if it's mine or yours, I am not the author and finisher of faith, I am but a created being. It is the Creator who gives us commands and if we disobey Him, regardless if culture thinks that what we did is okay, come judgment day only God's words matter.


So, cultures appear to be 'immune' from the 'sinful' tag, many of which have never even heard of 'the scriptures'.
Culture is not "immune" from the "sinful" tag, for if that was true, us Gentiles--I am assuming you're not Jewish--would not be under the law of Christ, even that wouldn't stop us from being "sinful" for the bible said even our hearts would condemn or affirm us.

As for the idea that there are some cultures that have yet to hear of scriptures, scripture tells us this,

Acts Acts 17:24-31
The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for

"'In him we live and move and have our being';



as even some of your own poets have said,

"'For we are indeed his offspring.'

Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."​

So don't worry, God have placed everyone in their correct time and age so that they can seek Him. And if there are known cultures that have yet to heard of God, maybe it's God's way of telling us that we need to go there and teach His word.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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I think concubinage is another word for adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.​


concubines were more for issues of offpsring when the main wife was barren. The OT did allow polygamy because God wanted the Israelites to propagate and number the lands. Solomon, who was considered a man to have wisdom above all others later did regret his concubines and large number of wives.

Since it was different at this time I cannot condemn concubinage as adultery nor condemn polygamy as our father Abraham had multiple wives. Just as Moses permitted divorce, polygamy and concubinage was permitted. But as Jesus says, it was more due to the hardness of their hearts than what it was actually at the beginning. However since tribal offspring and increasing its populations is not an issue anymore polygamy is not needed anymore. Also during the Israelite wars for the lands of canaan, many husbands were killed, thus leaving the wives without their husbands and any means of subsistence and protection. And due to this they married the captive women in order to provide for them and continue. That's why God says to keep the captive women and children for themselves, since there was no one else to take care of them.
 
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