"Vengeance is mine..."

[ChrisPharmD]

Okay okay, I have a question. And I foresee complaints of my attitude here, but what's new? Anyway, I have a situation in which *I feel* that I was incredibly wronged. And I was wronged for a couple of years. This particular individual used me for two years in a way that I will not discuss here on this forum.

My question is... Is it wrong for me to pray for vengeance? When God said "Vengeance is mine," I understand the context. He's not offering help in payback, but rather warning the receiver of the message. But with that being said, I still feel like praying that God will make this person suffer.

And actually, the person in question has suffered... greatly. From my understanding, they have been highly depressed to the point of failing out of school (which would be awesome haha jk).

What's your opinion?

And unlike my other messages, I will not argue with you. So throw me to the dirt. I get that this isn't really a great attitude to have. But I'm ticked about it. And it's a long-term issue... not just a quick thing.

 

[ashout]

the thing about wanting others to suffer is, you are essentially wanting YOURSELF to suffer. becuase God is mad at you for what you've done too, he WILL FORGIVE YOU ONLY IF YOU FORGIVE OTHERS.

so ask yourself, do you want God to pray for vengence on YOU?

 

[WinBySurrender]

My question is... Is it wrong for me to pray for vengeance? When God said "Vengeance is mine," I understand the context. He's not offering help in payback, but rather warning the receiver of the message. But with that being said, I still feel like praying that God will make this person suffer.

What would Jesus do? I'm serious. Would He wish calamity, violence, disaster and ruin on this man. Or would He, as He did on the cross, pray, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do"?

And actually, the person in question has suffered... greatly. From my understanding, they have been highly depressed to the point of failing out of school (which would be awesome haha jk).

No, I don't think you were. You have some work to do.

What's your opinion? ... And unlike my other messages, I will not argue with you. So throw me to the dirt. I get that this isn't really a great attitude to have. But I'm ticked about it. And it's a long-term issue... not just a quick thing.

Matthew 18
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 "When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.'
27 "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, 'Pay back what you owe.'
29 "So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 "But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 "Then summoning him, his lord said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
​

My opinion is that we must forgive, for we have been forgiven much. Much we must forgive. That doesn't mean run to him, pour out your heart, confessing your ill will and asking his forgiveness. If he hasn't come to you seeking forgiveness, he is not ready to receive yours. But prepare yourself. Let go of the malice and anger and hatred. Confess to God your sins and seek His forgiveness. When the time comes (and keep in mind, it may never come) for this man to seek your forgiveness, you will be ready to grant it, and confess your own need for forgiveness from him.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Paul said God will repay, to actually "leave room" for wrath for vengeance is His. When Paul was harmed by Alexander the coppersmith he said The Lord repay him (Alexander). Then that would bring in the subject of whose sins ye remit and retain. Also vengeance is connected to Judgment and judgment to being chastised as well, ever look how they interconnect?

Its only an observation, not promoting having grudging feelings, but there is an example of saying "the Lord repay (not forgive) him.

And I dont believe the Lord after repaying him would not forgive, but rather that a judgment was measured into the bosom there.

Prov 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

A recompense being met, whch comes not by a man (as he said I will not meet thee as a man) so "avenge not yourselves", for it is "mine to repay" and He can do that.

 

[twin1954]

You missed what he actually said:

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Rom 12:19-21)

 

[Fireinfolding]

Depends which context though, follow the wording used, its exchangeble

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yeildeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Heb 10:30 Vengeance and Judging His people are equal, and being judged of the Lord is equal to being chastened of the Lord in 1C11:32 and chastening is "in the pesent" (and not joyous) but greivous however still yeilds fruit in Heb 12:11

 

[strelok0017]

We have to pray for repentance and never seek to do justice on our own. Wishing someone else to be punished by the Lord is not good. Look at it this way: no matter what they've done you should want them to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Would you really want them to get damned? One day in heaven, looking back I am sure that you will see that holding anger and praying to the Lord for change was good. No matter how great frustration and anger they caused to you.

This is a good analogy, I think, that I came up with as I was writing this post. Big fire snuffs out the small fire by taking all the oxygen. The fire that people face in hell, at least in my case, is sometimes what makes a difference. Thinking about, it I don't want anyone to ever face any fire but to know the Lord, the fountain of living water.

 

[twin1954]

Depends which context though, follow the wording used, its exchangeble

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yeildeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Heb 10:30 Vengeance and Judging His people are equal, and being judged of the Lord is equal to being chastened of the Lord in 1C11:32 and chastening is "in the pesent" (and not joyous) but greivous however still yeilds fruit in Heb 12:11

There is a great deal of difference between the vengence of God and chastizement.

His vengence falls on all those who are not in Christ. It cannot fall on any who are in Christ because it fell on Him who is our substitute. God can never punish His people for their sin because He already has in Christ.

He chastens His people with loving correction but He can never punish them with vengence.

 

[Emmy]

Dear ChrisPharmD. God is Love, and loves us as our Heavenly Father. But there is also God`s eternal Law of Justice. We know that God sees all, and hears all, God will know what we suffer and think about. God knows when some wrong is done to us, and also when we do some wrong to others.
We know God`s Law as: " what ye sow ye will also reap." And this is working all the time. We can safely leave it all to God, He always knows " what is right and when is the right time." God is our Refuge and our Peace, we can leave all fitting consequences, and all fitting rewards, to God our Heavenly Father. As long as we remember: " do unto our neighbour as we would love to be done to us." We love God and can safely trust Him.
Sometimes we have to wait a bit, but God always knows what is right, and when it is right. I say this with love, Chris. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[faceofbear]

It's your job to forgive. It's G-D's job to deal justice. There's no need to pray about it if He promises vengeance. But, He will also judge your heart, not just this person.

 

[Fireinfolding]

There is a great deal of difference between the vengence of God and chastizement.

His vengence falls on all those who are not in Christ. It cannot fall on any who are in Christ because it fell on Him who is our substitute. God can never punish His people for their sin because He already has in Christ.

He chastens His people with loving correction but He can never punish them with vengence.

It defines judging his people as the chastening of the Lord (and speaks of his chastening in present) which is not joyous (but rather grievous).

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

If he is dealing with them as with sons how could that exclude those in Christ?

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Vengeance being His, is in the context of "avenge not" yourselves meaning dont repay the wrong done to you with a wrong. Its not our place to do that, God will repay.

Col 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Those he loves he rebukes (again in chastening)

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Even if it be those outside God shall judge, the Lord will judge his people, and when we are judged we are chastened and in this He is dealing with them as sons, not otherwise.

It speaks of the reccompense, it says he reccompenses in the earth, not just the righteous but the sinner, it does show when his judgments are in the earth the inhabitants of the earth learn rightousness.

I see it all as a good thing

 

[ashout]

are you getting the picture Chris? You don't even really NEED to pray for vengence, becuase no sin goes unoticed by God. and didn't you hear? you poor hot coals on their head when you love them! but you have to love them, you can't be seeking vengence in another form. seeking vegence has the opposite effect, it pours hot coals on your own head.

 

[Fireinfolding]

We can get a glimpse of the souls under the altar at the patience and forebearance of God, asking, "How LONG" because he is longsuffering...

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Then here He has avenged them...

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

How long dost thou NOT (judge and avenge) whereas Paul would say, avenge NOT yourselves but leave room for wrath, its God's to avenge, and He is longsuffering, but even in revelation God is shown avenging them.

Shown in various ways