Various Bible questions

[grandvizier1006]

It's been quite a while since I've been here, and I'm finding that my life has gotten a bit better. I quit porn back in April and am proud of how long I've been clean. I'm spending my time more wisely. I still have some questions about the Bible, though, and unfortunately the people in my church are way too busy to be able to answer most of my questions. I've been attending a Nazarene church since 2018, although I was raised Presbyterian (PCA). Going to the Nazarene church was a bit of a culture shock for me because I'd never seen authentic community and faith before. As a kid I didn't pay attention to the Bible, and now I'm finding that there's a lot I don't understand. Because of that, some of my questions involve disagreements between Calvnist and Wesleyan theology. A third option like Catholicism or another ancient/traditional group is fine, but it's not the sort of church I grew up in, so I don't know if I'll agree with it.

1. How can we be sure that Isaiah is talking about Jesus in various verses that the Gospels cite, as opposed to just talking about himself like Jews claim?
2. Is a Christian's life supposed to be full of misery and hardship? Lots of people at my church imply this, but it seems like most of them have fairly decent lives. Maybe a few tragedies like a loved one getting cancer or dying, but nothing truly horrific.
3. At the end of Judges, why did God allow the Benjaminites to be nearly wiped out by the other tribes? And why did God later allow the Benjaminites to abduct and rape women from the other tribes?
4. Did Ruth and Boaz have sex?
5. How does the Song of Solomon point to Jesus when it seems to be about sex entirely?
6. Are you "not a real Christian" if you face persecution? (Someone at my church that I normally look up to said this at one point and I disagreed with him).
7. Does people harassing you online for your Christian beliefs count as persecution? (Again, same person as with the previous question. He seemed to think that this counted as persecution, while I would not consider that to count as such).
8. What is spiritual warfare, and can I have some examples?
9. Why does Saul not seem to recognize David in 1 Samuel 17 (the Goliath episode), even though David became Saul's armor-bearer at the end of chapter 16 for driving out an evil spirit?
10. Some OT testament verses say that the Mosaic covenant is forever. Does this contradict with Jesus fulfilling the spirit of the law in the Gospels?
11. Proverbs says to train up a child and he won't depart from God's teachings. But plenty of children raised Christan become atheists in their teenage years or later in adulthood. Why is that? Does this fact make verses like this unreliable?
12. Someone at my church had a dream that a couple that had recently gotten married were arguing. From this other people in church took this as a sign that they needed to go to the couple's recently-bought home and exorcise it. How is this supposed to make sense? I don't understand a lot of this "spiritual warfare" stuff at all because Presbyterians don't talk about it much, or at least I heard little about it growing up.
13. In Jeremiah 4:10, which I read recently, Jeremiah remarks to God that He has "completely deceived" His people by saying that there will be peace "when the sword is at our throats". God doesn't actually say that here, nor does Jeremiah quote him saying that. Second, isn't it against God's nature to tell a lie? Isn't that usually sinful?
14. In Titus 1:12-13, is Paul saying that a stereotype about Cretans is true? How do we square this with the belief we have today, that stereotypes are inaccurate and hurtful to apply to people?

 

[Sabertooth]

Your questions cannot be answered effectively all at once.
Your mind can learn intellectual answers, but you need to let the Holy Spirit grow you before you can actually digest them.

Jesus said,
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you..." John 14:15-17 NKJV

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,

He will teach you all things,​

and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." v.26​

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,

that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,​

which is your reasonable service.​

And do not be conformed to this world,
but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that you may prove what is that

good and​

acceptable and​

perfect​

will of God." Romans 12:1-2 NKJV

Some of your questions are controversial. PM me if you would like me to weigh in on the most pressing ones.

 

[St_Worm2]

1. How can we be sure that Isaiah is talking about Jesus in various verses that the Gospels cite, as opposed to just talking about himself like Jews claim?

Hello Grandvizier1006, please cite the verse reference(s) that you are interested in discussing. Thanks!

2. Is a Christian's life supposed to be full of misery and hardship? Lots of people at my church imply this, but it seems like most of them have fairly decent lives. Maybe a few tragedies like a loved one getting cancer or dying, but nothing truly horrific.

Actually, while our lives may often be filled with all kinds of hardships, they should still be filled with joy too, not misery (even in the midst of the hardships), because we know that God causes ALL things (both good ~AND~ bad) to work together for good in the lives of those us who are or who will be His adopted children .. e.g. Romans 8:28; Hebrews 12:7-11

As theologian and pastor Charles Spurgeon once said,

3. At the end of Judges, why did God allow the Benjaminites to be nearly wiped out by the other tribes? And why did God later allow the Benjaminites to abduct and rape women from the other tribes?

Chapters and verses please. Thanks

4. Did Ruth and Boaz have sex?

Matthew 1​

5 Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab, Boaz was the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse. ​

5. How does the Song of Solomon point to Jesus when it seems to be about sex entirely?

Does it (point to Jesus), or is it just what it appears to be, an intimate love poem about married life? The jury remains out on that one

6. Are you "not a real Christian" if you face persecution? (Someone at my church that I normally look up to said this at one point and I disagreed with him).

2 Timothy 3​

12 All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. ​

Facing persecution for our beliefs is one of the signs that we truly are who we claim and believe ourselves to be, Christians, yes?

7. Does people harassing you online for your Christian beliefs count as persecution? (Again, same person as with the previous question. He seemed to think that this counted as persecution, while I would not consider that to count as such).

Imprisonment, torture and/or death for simply being a Christian is certainly persecution, but I believe there are many other kinds of persecution that we face from others because of our beliefs (which, in agreement with your friend, certainly includes what we face online at times). Why do you believe that it is not?

Whoops, gotta go right now, but I hope to return a bit later to finish up (Dv).

God bless you!!

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

8. What is spiritual warfare, and can I have some examples?

Hello again Grandvizier1006, continuing on, spiritual warfare concerns the spiritual battles that we face as believers against the dark forces (whose leader is Satan) in the unseen world around us (and in heavenly places, as well). The Apostle Paul puts it like this,

Ephesians 6​

12 Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. ​

As far as a Biblical example of "spiritual warfare", I believe that there are none better than the Lord Jesus' battle with Satan, because in it, we get to see how the leader of the pack (so to speak) operates, and also what the Lord did to respond/fight back against Satan's attack.

Matthew 4​

1 Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. ​

2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. ​

3 And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” ​

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’ ” ​

5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, ​

6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, ​

‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU’; ​

and ​

‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, ​

SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’ ” ​

7 Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’ ” ​

8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; ​

9 and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” ​

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’ ” ​

11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.​

I've barely touched on this topic as it is a MASSIVE one, a topic that would, therefore, make for a wonderful discussion thread. So, if you'd like to talk about it further, please start a thread that is dedicated to this topic (and let me/us know if you do, and which forum board we can find it on too).

Thanks

9. Why does Saul not seem to recognize David in 1 Samuel 17 (the Goliath episode), even though David became Saul's armor-bearer at the end of chapter 16 for driving out an evil spirit?

My son has been watching the DC Comics TV series called, "Arrow", here of late. I've found it hard to follow when I don't pay pretty close attention to the show because of all of the "flashbacks" that the character Arrow experiences in various episodes (that are used to help define and explain the reasons for what he does in the present storyline).

1 Samuel 17:55-56 seems to be like that, a "flashback" in time, but I will need to get back to you to confirm that once I've looked into again (I have not studied this passage for years now).

10. Some OT testament verses say that the Mosaic covenant is forever. Does this contradict with Jesus fulfilling the spirit of the law in the Gospels?

Some OT verses? Please cite them so that we'll know which verses you are referring to. Thanks

11. Proverbs says to train up a child and he won't depart from God's teachings. But plenty of children raised Christan become atheists in their teenage years or later in adulthood. Why is that? Does this fact make verses like this unreliable?

First off, what you said in your first sentence above is not what Proverbs 22:6 says. As a quick aside, it should also be noted that the correct translation of parts of this verse are still debated.

That said, it's true, generally and hopefully speaking, that if you train your children to understand the difference between right and wrong, for instance, that they will still know the difference when they are grownups. However, whether they choose to do "right" or "wrong" is up to them, no matter how good and/or thorough their moral/ethical upbringing may have been.

As far as raising your children according to the principles that are found in the Bible goes, while that is always a GREAT idea, it hardly ensures that your children will choose to become Christians later in life (because raising your children ~as~ Christians does not magically transform them ~into~ Christians .. wouldn't that be nice ).

12. Someone at my church had a dream that a couple that had recently gotten married were arguing. From this other people in church took this as a sign that they needed to go to the couple's recently-bought home and exorcise it. How is this supposed to make sense? I don't understand a lot of this "spiritual warfare" stuff at all because Presbyterians don't talk about it much, or at least I heard little about it growing up.

Hmm, let's see here, a married couple had an argument (now there's a new one ), but this was an argument that may or may not have happened, because, as far as we know, it only happened in someone else's dream.

Nevertheless, some of the folks in your church (based on this dream alone) decided that something must be done, and the remedy that they came up with was to go and see the newlywed couple so that an exorcism could be performed on their house What

It's too late to continue, but I hope to return tomorrow evening and finish answering your remaining questions as best I can (Dv).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - if what you said in Q #12 actually happened, have you ever considered returning to your Presbyterian roots?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

. How can we be sure that Isaiah is talking about Jesus in various verses that the Gospels cite, as opposed to just talking about himself like Jews claim?

This is what Isaiah said about the Messiah, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It does not sound like he was talking about himself for obvious reasons. Isaiah did not claim to be the Messiah nor is God Himself.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[DragonFox91]

I just have some quick answers.

1. How can we be sure that Isaiah is talking about Jesus in various verses that the Gospels cite, as opposed to just talking about himself like Jews claim?
   1. The Jews are denying their own belief in double-fulfillment. In OT prophecy, there’s always a double-fulfillment, one fulfilled now, & one not yet.
2. Is a Christian's life supposed to be full of misery and hardship? Lots of people at my church imply this, but it seems like most of them have fairly decent lives. Maybe a few tragedies like a loved one getting cancer or dying, but nothing truly horrific.
   1. God gives blessings to his children & we are meant to enjoy them. The hardship in the Bible means if God asks you to give something up, you will. It also means there’s things the world says are good you’ll reject. The world will reject you for rejecting them & clinging to Christ.
3. At the end of Judges, why did God allow the Benjaminites to be nearly wiped out by the other tribes? And why did God later allow the Benjaminites to abduct and rape women from the other tribes?
   1. I’m not sure about this specific situation, but many times in the OT, God calls for judgement. In those days they would child sacrifice & prostitute themselves in the temples. It was truly horrific back in those days. So because God is holy the people had to be judged. Many times, the women were spared. They had no means to provide for themselves, so God asked his people to take them in out of loving kindness. I think you’re reading into rape.
4. Did Ruth and Boaz have sex?
   1. I don't know enough about their story to know this
5. How does the Song of Solomon point to Jesus when it seems to be about sex entirely?
   1. Marriage is a symbol of Jesus’s love for his people. The deep love & covenant in marriage helps us understand that.
6. Are you "not a real Christian" if you face persecution? (Someone at my church that I normally look up to said this at one point and I disagreed with him).
   1. You should face hardship from the pagans
7. Does people harassing you online for your Christian beliefs count as persecution? (Again, same person as with the previous question. He seemed to think that this counted as persecution, while I would not consider that to count as such).
   1. It's hardship. I don't think it's persecution, no.
8. What is spiritual warfare, and can I have some examples?

1. Being plagued by certain sins & being able to conquer them thru your trust in Christ. Nothing else works except Christ

1. Why does Saul not seem to recognize David in 1 Samuel 17 (the Goliath episode), even though David became Saul's armor-bearer at the end of chapter 16 for driving out an evil spirit?
   1. I don't know this
2. Some OT testament verses say that the Mosaic covenant is forever. Does this contradict with Jesus fulfilling the spirit of the law in the Gospels?
   1. Fulfilling means it's forever
3. Proverbs says to train up a child and he won't depart from God's teachings. But plenty of children raised Christan become atheists in their teenage years or later in adulthood. Why is that? Does this fact make verses like this unreliable?
   1. Were they really raised Christian? Or did they just go to church on Sunday? The ‘raising up’ described in Proverbs is dedicating yourself to teaching your child God’s teachings & not simply an hour on Sunday. It means dedicating yourself to teaching them.
4. Someone at my church had a dream that a couple that had recently gotten married were arguing. From this other people in church took this as a sign that they needed to go to the couple's recently-bought home and exorcise it. How is this supposed to make sense? I don't understand a lot of this "spiritual warfare" stuff at all because Presbyterians don't talk about it much, or at least I heard little about it growing up.
   1. This doesn't make sense. It's a big jump from spiritual warfare to 'the house needs to be exorcised.' It is their own sinful heart that Jesus needs to heal.
5. In Jeremiah 4:10, which I read recently, Jeremiah remarks to God that He has "completely deceived" His people by saying that there will be peace "when the sword is at our throats". God doesn't actually say that here, nor does Jeremiah quote him saying that. Second, isn't it against God's nature to tell a lie? Isn't that usually sinful?
   1. That’s Jeremiah’s own thought. All throughout the OT, God warns his people if they stray from him, he will judge them himself. There's no deception in God, not part of his character.
6. In Titus 1:12-13, is Paul saying that a stereotype about Cretans is true? How do we square this with the belief we have today, that stereotypes are inaccurate and hurtful to apply to people?
   1. “The belief we have today”…….Today. God’s word doesn’t change. Some stereotypes ARE true. But God is merciful. Of all those w/ leprosy in the time of Elisha, only the pagan Naaman’s leprosy was healed divinely.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Thanks for the responses. I apologize for not bringing up the relevant verses for some questions.
1. There are a lot of verses in Isaiah, such as in Isaiah 53, that are generally seen as being about Jesus. There's also Isaiah 49, which I guess could describe both Isaiah and Jesus.
3. In Judges, the chapters narrating the civil war with Benjamin are chapters 19-21. A concubine belonging to a Levite is brutally murdered. They stay at an inn belonging to a Benjaminite, who is pressured by rapists to bring out his guest. Similar to what happened in Sodom, the Benjaminite offers the Levite's concubine, as well as his daughter, to them to be raped. This story obviously has parallels to Sodom, except that time an angel blinded the men and Lot's daughters were not given away. The Benjaminite is blamed for the concubine's death. This prompts the 11 tribes to wage war on Benjamin. When casting lots, God just says, "Judah is to go first". He doesn't try to stop them or clear up the misunderstanding. After the war, the Benjamin tribe is nearly wiped out. The other 11 tribes took an oath not to marry off their daughters. So they get around this loophole by telling the Benjamiites to abduct their daughts while they attend a festival. That way they can stay true to their vow of not giving away their daughters in marriage.

God is absent from most of this story, and it's a brutal reminder of how women were considered property back then. I understand that God and later Jesus never share this same view, but it's still a very depressing story. I have to wonder why God did not get involved to try and intervene. The best answer I can come up with is that this was a period of time in which he was allowing them to rebel. Some people think that 1 Samuel later on is a contradiction in the Bible, since it seems that at some parts of that book God is in favor of giving Israel a king, and other times he is not. I don't really know how to resolve this issue. Most secular scholars just assume that two different people composed Judges and 1 Samuel, one pro-monarchy group and one anti-monarchy.

4. I was referring to the part where Ruth "covers Boaz's feet" in chapter 3. Boaz falls asleep and Ruth does this, as Naomi instructs her. Boaz wakes up to find her sleeping at his feet. The next morning, Boaz officially marries Ruth. I've heard that "covering the feet" is possibly a euphemism for sex. This seems to against the idea of pre-marital sex being a sin, since Ruth and Boaz (possibly, if what I said about covering the feet earlier is correct) do so and don't get punished. Or at the very least, the only punishment is that Boaz must marry her. But if he was asleep and Ruth performed some sexual act on him, isn't that rape?

For question 10, in regards to the Mosaic covenant being forever, I'm going to have to look back at Isaiah. I think that's where I found a verse saying something like that, since I read through Isaiah recently (I'm trying to get through the major prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, since that's the only part of the Bible I've never taken the time to read through).

In regards to question 12, I thought it was a strange thing. I think I remember meeting with my Bible study, and someone in our group text related the dream. Afterwards, some people volunteered to go and pray/exorcise over the house. I wasn't with that group, and I wasn't sure if they wanted everyone to join in or just a few people. I don't actually know if the house was ever prayed over, though, because I think some people got sick later on when they had scheduled to do it. In any case, the couple, as far as I know, were in actuality very much ok with each other and not arguing at all. At least, as far as I am aware. If they had any marital issues, it was kept private. For me, it's not so much what was going on with them as it was the idea that the house was somehow haunted by demons, and we were just going off of one person's dream. When I have bad dreams, I usually associate them with something psychological in my own head, not spiritual. But it seems like Nazarenes pay attention to this stuff more than Presbyterians, at least that's how it was for me growing up.

On one hand, I don't understand some of the practices of the Nazarenes. But they're a wonderful and kind community, and I never had that in Presbyterian church (some of it may have had to do more with culture than theology or beliefs). I've considered going back to a Presbyterian church, but I don't want to hurt the feelings of the people I've made friends with.

I was hoping somebody here would have some familiarity with this sort of spiritual warfare.

In regards to question 7, I guess my main disagreement with the teacher of the Bible study (who I should add is someone I respect as an authority on these sorts of things) is that I don't think harassment online counts as persecution. The Internet is a place where tons of people argue all the time, and sometimes it gets rude and ugly. But aside from death threats, it doesn't have any real consequences if it's just angry arguing. When I think of persecution, I think of authority figures, or at least people that have a lot of influence, actively doing something to punish you for your faith.

 

[DragonFox91]

Thanks for the responses. I apologize for not bringing up the relevant verses for some questions.
1. There are a lot of verses in Isaiah, such as in Isaiah 53, that are generally seen as being about Jesus. There's also Isaiah 49, which I guess could describe both Isaiah and Jesus.
3. In Judges, the chapters narrating the civil war with Benjamin are chapters 19-21. A concubine belonging to a Levite is brutally murdered. They stay at an inn belonging to a Benjaminite, who is pressured by rapists to bring out his guest. Similar to what happened in Sodom, the Benjaminite offers the Levite's concubine, as well as his daughter, to them to be raped. This story obviously has parallels to Sodom, except that time an angel blinded the men and Lot's daughters were not given away. The Benjaminite is blamed for the concubine's death. This prompts the 11 tribes to wage war on Benjamin. When casting lots, God just says, "Judah is to go first". He doesn't try to stop them or clear up the misunderstanding. After the war, the Benjamin tribe is nearly wiped out. The other 11 tribes took an oath not to marry off their daughters. So they get around this loophole by telling the Benjamiites to abduct their daughts while they attend a festival. That way they can stay true to their vow of not giving away their daughters in marriage.

God is absent from most of this story, and it's a brutal reminder of how women were considered property back then. I understand that God and later Jesus never share this same view, but it's still a very depressing story. I have to wonder why God did not get involved to try and intervene. The best answer I can come up with is that this was a period of time in which he was allowing them to rebel. Some people think that 1 Samuel later on is a contradiction in the Bible, since it seems that at some parts of that book God is in favor of giving Israel a king, and other times he is not. I don't really know how to resolve this issue. Most secular scholars just assume that two different people composed Judges and 1 Samuel, one pro-monarchy group and one anti-monarchy.

4. I was referring to the part where Ruth "covers Boaz's feet" in chapter 3. Boaz falls asleep and Ruth does this, as Naomi instructs her. Boaz wakes up to find her sleeping at his feet. The next morning, Boaz officially marries Ruth. I've heard that "covering the feet" is possibly a euphemism for sex. This seems to against the idea of pre-marital sex being a sin, since Ruth and Boaz (possibly, if what I said about covering the feet earlier is correct) do so and don't get punished. Or at the very least, the only punishment is that Boaz must marry her. But if he was asleep and Ruth performed some sexual act on him, isn't that rape?

For question 10, in regards to the Mosaic covenant being forever, I'm going to have to look back at Isaiah. I think that's where I found a verse saying something like that, since I read through Isaiah recently (I'm trying to get through the major prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, since that's the only part of the Bible I've never taken the time to read through).

In regards to question 12, I thought it was a strange thing. I think I remember meeting with my Bible study, and someone in our group text related the dream. Afterwards, some people volunteered to go and pray/exorcise over the house. I wasn't with that group, and I wasn't sure if they wanted everyone to join in or just a few people. I don't actually know if the house was ever prayed over, though, because I think some people got sick later on when they had scheduled to do it. In any case, the couple, as far as I know, were in actuality very much ok with each other and not arguing at all. At least, as far as I am aware. If they had any marital issues, it was kept private. For me, it's not so much what was going on with them as it was the idea that the house was somehow haunted by demons, and we were just going off of one person's dream. When I have bad dreams, I usually associate them with something psychological in my own head, not spiritual. But it seems like Nazarenes pay attention to this stuff more than Presbyterians, at least that's how it was for me growing up.

On one hand, I don't understand some of the practices of the Nazarenes. But they're a wonderful and kind community, and I never had that in Presbyterian church (some of it may have had to do more with culture than theology or beliefs). I've considered going back to a Presbyterian church, but I don't want to hurt the feelings of the people I've made friends with.

I was hoping somebody here would have some familiarity with this sort of spiritual warfare.

In regards to question 7, I guess my main disagreement with the teacher of the Bible study (who I should add is someone I respect as an authority on these sorts of things) is that I don't think harassment online counts as persecution. The Internet is a place where tons of people argue all the time, and sometimes it gets rude and ugly. But aside from death threats, it doesn't have any real consequences if it's just angry arguing. When I think of persecution, I think of authority figures, or at least people that have a lot of influence, actively doing something to punish you for your faith.

They wanted to rape the Levite & his concubine, the Benjamite literally hands them over. Chapter 19 verse 24: "Let me bring out the man's concubine." Why is he not to blame? There's no misunderstanding.

They war against the Benjamites b/c the Benjamites side w/ the men of Gibeah. Chapter 20 verse 13: "'Hand over the wicked men in Gibeah so we can put them to death & eradicate this evil from Israel.' But the Benjamites would not listen."

For the taking of wives: I wouldn't be surprised if those festivals were fertility festivals where the whole point is for husband & wife to meet. It's not like it's a Christmas festival! Fertility festivals were VERY common - & even parties not labeled that kind of stuff today, well, you can't separate men & women!

xxxx

For Ruth & Boaz: people in the Bible sin ALL the time. Just like Christians today do. Just b/c someone does something in the Bible, that doesn't mean God approves it. Rather it's evidence all are guilty & need a Savior. I don't know Hebrew euphanisms, but pagan scholars today try to link anything & everything to sex. I think feet were considered sexual until relatively recently ('cover your ankles!'), so I don't think the wording necessarily means they did it.

xxxx

Yes, I agree. Christians need to avoid thinking just b/c someone disagrees online, they're being persecuted. (non-Christians are guilty of this too).

xxxx

I'm glad you're digging deep into the Bible. Sections that seem scary & militiant atheists like to trumpet reallly aren't as tricky as what they try to make it. & genuine Christians need to be aware of the 'hard' sections.

xxxx

I'm glad your church is aware of spiritual warfare, but I think they're jumping to conclusions wanting to exorcise a house.

 

[Peacemaker1]

1. israel does not believe in the love of god, to give his life for us, all the law is fulfilled by that testified love of god, to love our neighbour as we love ourselves.

Galatians 5:14
or all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Peacemaker1]

2. a christians life is his death, to show the life of Christ through this.


2 Corinthians 4:10
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

 

[Peacemaker1]

3,4,5. the cross points to jesus, all in the old testament points towards the cross,
that is why the old testament gave instruction of hanging people on a tree, and all other instructions, because by the sincere love of Christ, and him being made a curse for us, we would no longer be under the curse of the old testament.



Deuteronomy 21:23
His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:




redeemed us from the curse of the law



Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


Matthew 2237 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Peacemaker1]

6,7 persecution is when you have no comfort from it, that is why belief is your comfort, that you are blessed to be persecuted as the prophets were, who were persecuted by the ones who thought they were religios, as israel is doing now, and christian nations and churches supporting the persecution and murder.



Matthew 5:10
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.



Luke 6.25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

 

[Peacemaker1]

8. spiritual warfare is against those who do not believe in warring a good warfare for Christ, the pattern of all longsuffering as exampled by his apostles following him in the sufferings of Christ, to hold your faith in a good conscience.



1 Timothy 1.16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

 

[Peacemaker1]

9,10, saul was what israel asked for, a king like all other nations, when the lord god was their kind, saul did what all other kings do, nothing that the king of kings does, which david on the throne of god began to do, to restore the throne to god, which christ on the throne of david fulfilled.




Psalm 132:11
The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.



Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 16:5
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:




that also is told right there to be for ever, the law of moses, which moses was faithful in, but christ as a son over his own house, whose house we are ,if we hold the faith firm.



Hebrews 3.5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

 

[Peacemaker1]

11,12, a child is trained up as seen in god the father showing all things to the son, so we may marvel, there is nothing marvellous how any person has shown to any children.





John 5:20
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.





Christ divided the households, they cant cast out Christ, you cant excise evil spirits without exercising faith first.



Luke 12:52
For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

Luke 12:53
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


1 Timothy 4:7
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

 

[Peacemaker1]

13,14, jeremiah has the persecution that christ told we would have as they suffered, Jeremiah said you deceived me to god, but that god had prevailed, god knowing all he is doing for faith for all to believe in him, and to doubt men, who know nothing at all, as they disappear once their voices stop speaking.

stereotypes are god versus man, good versus evil, sheep and goats, the sheep hear god who is the good shepherd who cares for his own sheep laying his life down for them when the wolves came for them, the goats hear the pretenders who care nothing for the sheep, as they are not theirs, they leave you with the protection of their false words, but the apostles of the lord guarded us by true words and true care of their lives for the flock, warning of the grievous wolves entering the flock, and not sparing them after he departed.





Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived; thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.


John 10.11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


John 10:12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.



Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

 

[DragonFox91]

Peace, good answer on the stereotype question. That is right.

 

[grandvizier1006]

I'm appreciating your answers, Peacemaker1, but your sentence structure is poor, and it is making it hard for me to understand you. It seems like in some answers you're just quoting a bunch of verses without explaining what you're trying to say.