unintentional sin?

can you give an example?

and most sin is probably 99.9% thought about before hand, even if it is only for a second.

we all have a built-in sense of what's right and wrong, regardless of our culture or upbringing

God forgives anything and you are your own judge. You judge yourself. However there are spiritual rules that even God must abide on. One of those spiritual laws is that you have to make up for the wrongs that you do upon others. This means that sins commited upon others must be made-up , and you might get corrected upon your wrong doings , but if it wasn't intentionally, it might be more like a slap on the hand instead of a blow in your face.

perfection said:

God forgives anything and you are your own judge. You judge yourself. However there are spiritual rules that even God must abide on. One of those spiritual laws is that you have to make up for the wrongs that you do upon others. This means that sins commited upon others must be made-up , and you might get corrected upon your wrong doings , but if it wasn't intentionally, it might be more like a slap on the hand instead of a blow in your face.

Click to expand...

Brother perfection,

I'm not trying to undermind what you said here but do you have any scripture to back up what you said, or was this your own personal thoughts on the matter? I have found nothing in god's word to suport any of the things you've written here..


Brother "Roos"
The answer is yes, you are.. the basic defination of sin is our action out side of gods will.. See god set a standard so high we all fall short when given "Free will" That is the reason for the sacerfice of jesus.. It's like standing on the peer at New York Harbor and your goal is to goto England. Now no matter how good of a jumper you are or how good of a swimmer you are, your not going to make it to england with out some help! Our help is Jesus he is our bridge, our Transport, He filled the Gap between God's rightousness/perfection and our sin.. "Even the deadly ones"
As far as your tribes men go, they are accountable for the amount of exposure to christ they received... Know that all of them and us are designed with a god shaped hole in our hearts one that only he can fill, and through that filling, it give us contentment (If we truly have God in our hearts) There is finally a sence of peace like the search can stop. That same search or sence of "More to life" is something man has dealt with since the fall. Look at all religion since the beginning it constantly changes look at Greek mytholigy, or the gods the romans worshiped, or any of the other pagan gods.. They are in a constant state of change and revisal.. Why? because that hole in our hearts can be filled by man made Idols.. Your tribes men are accountable to god for all that they did.. And it is between Jesus and each tribes men to determine weather or not that they acted on what little exposure they had to him.. remember he is the true and perfect judge he will seperate body, from spirit, from mind, from soul and judge our motives and inner most thoughts... nothing won't be hidden or left out.

You are deceived by Pauls teachings. I never liked his word because he never was taught by Jesus himself, therefore he only had his old jewish study to determine what was right or wrong therefore mixing his old jewish teachings with that of the new teachings of christ. He told us christians to wear headscarves, while Jesus tells us that it's what you do that matters, not what you wear.

Therefore by christs teachings you can FEEL what is right or what is wrong. Anything that isn't love is sin.

we all have a built-in sense of what's right and wrong, regardless of our culture or upbringing

Click to expand...

That's sort of a blatant statement that would need some examination. Not to take away from its validity, I suppose in some aspects we could say that it's right. But in others it's wrong.

When indigenous native tribes in the amazon, play sport that involves the winner gets to have sex with the most beautiful virgin of the tribe. They view it as the same way we view soccer, as clean, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Our sense of right and wrong is ingrained over time from watching our parents. If you're parent taught you that it was customary to kick dogs and that it was nice to steal candybars, they wouldn't know better they would do it... because their parents said it's fine and they learned that over time.

Brother Roos,

What is your question of sin in relation to then? you mentioned the "aborigines" or "tribesmen" and little to no exposure to christ, so I taylored an answer to that. Now your addressing cross demonationalism. I'm not upset I just don't understand the question. Are you addressing the relationship of sin to salvation or sin and you worship or sin and your relationship to god?... Or is there still yet something I've miss?

As far as looking at sin or untentional sin to your salvation, your safe, no matter what you belive "Demonationaly or Non Demonationaly" So long as you have the Doctrine of Christ, Jesus as your "foundation"

Untenrional sin and worship:
Again if your following your nondom or dom. beliefs then your ok..

Your walk and/or relationship:
Your ok as well, if your following what your "Church believes"

How is all this possiable? look again at the verse you mentioned Rom 14 and read it from begining to end. I strongly belive paul was not only writing to the romans at his time, but I belive the spirit was using this oppertunity in time to speak to a situation that would largly spand the gap between the time this was pened to the return of christ. that is the matter of the largly curtural Beliefs, and/or the traditions the men tend to cling to and incorperate to there religions (Even with in ultimate freedom) The spirit saw the need to enforce the Idea that there isnot a way to heaven in the physical actions of the belivers of christ. (it is true that faith with out works is dead... But, I say that the works is a result of faith not the other way around... When the wind blows through the trees the branches move... That movement is a result of the passing wind. The moving branches don't cause the wind, they are a result of it much like the works of the Christian..)

It is all a matter of the heart. what The Spirit is trying to communicate here is that If there is forgiveness for the baby hatting, Axe murdering, Non tax payer, who finds jesus in his heart then "we" in all our different forms who are trying to worship to the best of our ablities (that means we all act and try with all our heart soul and mind strenth and body) then sin in our worship or not we did it for the right reason (trying to show God love the best way we know how)
The writer of hebrews tells us the Jesus (the word) will seperate body from mind, spirit and soul, and judge our intent "Hearts" from what we did and why we did them, and if all was truly to the glory of god then we have nothing to fear. But if we go through the motions "Perfectly" even with out unintentional sin, We spent our lives building on sand. With out the proper foundation of christ all of our works "House" will fall from around us, and our true foolishness will be reveiled..

This all goes back to what I said about the tribes men remember? we will all be judged on our exposure and if we acted on what we knew to act on. The princapal is the same. It's not what we look like on the outside (Church 3 times a week, or just a silent acknoweldgement) It's did we take full advantage of what he supplied us with..

I hope this helps , but if I miss read the intent of your question then I'd be happy to take another shot at it. just be out right in what your worried about sin effecting..

GLGB

In the old testament there was a sin offering at the Tabernacle to atone for unintentional sin, which meant some Israelites were sinning clearly without even knowing it.

Click to expand...

It also could have meant they sinned, knew they sinned, and it was an accident.

Example: Getting in a car crash and killing the person opposite you.

God created everything. God also created the "potential" for evil to exist. Now, make sure you read thru this without jumping to conclusions. The potential for evil does not mean that God created evil, since evil is not a thing, but by creating us He also created the potential for evil and good. Therefore the potential exist.

Our Free will allow us to make this potential real. Our actions and decision create good and evil, right doings and sins.

If you go back to the main message Jesus left us is that we should love one another they way He loves us. They key word here is LOVE.

God is love. Anything that does not come from love is a sin, whether you know Jesus or not. Whether you accept Jesus or not. It is a connection we all have, given to us by God and received thru the Holy Spirit that allows us to "know" what comes from love or what comes from lack of love. It is that gut feeling we all get.

Rules and regulations are set up by people; they are based on their lifestyle, era, and government. Paul knew that most of the rules Romans had were there not to teach their people about Love, but to control people and make them do things out of fear. And Fear is lack of Love.

That example from Paul is like the one you brought up about upbringings. In regards to teaching and upbringing, if you were thought not to eat chocolate because it was a sin, then probably eating chocolate will make you feel guilty. The sin is not in the act of eating the chocolate but in the fact that you choose to do something you KNEW you should not do, therefore your INTENTIONS were not coming from love but maybe defiance, fear, anger....

If you have to CHOOSE to NOT feel guilty then you felt guilty to start with. Your own spirit received the message from God that what you were about to do was not right. That is when the sin occurs. When you do it…

When reading the Bible ask God to let you see the real teaching of the word,without trying to justify anything. The message is clear; do not act out of Love.

Cheating on your wife is an act out of Love.

Lying is an act out of Love. Anything that is done out of power, pleasure and popularity will most likely make do something that is sinful.

Drinking, using your body as a sex object, choosing to have intimacy with someone without first committing to that person spiritually, being judgmental, trying to find happiness from money, looks, possessions. All of these actions do not come from Love, they come from greed, ego, insecurities. Think hard and you will see that usually the result of these actions might be OK for a while but then they fall apart, and the end result is a person in despair, depression and guilt. Sins create scars in our soul they never go away. Jesus died for those scars, so you can see them and turn to God. So you can be saved .

There is a only one difference between the sin offering of unintentional sin, and the precept of romans 14..
That is the grace given from the cross, with out that sacrifice we too would have to make sin offerings for unintentional sin now as well. because they lived in a time before the sacrifice and because god was showing us/them the standard in which he sets for purity, they had to make that sacrifice annually. Where as "We" have had that sacrifice made for us.. the standard is the same but the completeness of the sacrifice is different.

Ross:

Let me see if I can explain myself better.

I believe the Holy Spirit is the way God communicates with us. It is His language. Saying that, when looking at my statement "Your own spirit received the message from God that what you were about to do was not right”, I was not talking about whether or not eating the chocolate is a sin but more se about the INTENTIONS we have when eating the chocolate.

Doctrines by definition are something that is taught, a principle of law established through past decisions. We create a doctrine, that doesn’t mean they are right, it just means that probably based on the ethical state of the union, these rules needed to be established in order to create some type of order.

However, that act when we break these rules makes us sinners by the nature of our intentions. That is when God cares. Not the rule but the state of our soul when the rule is broken. And like I said before, most of the time we do not follow rules because of anger, defiance, egotistic acts. None of then are an act of love.

I believe God doesn’t care if we eat chocolate; He cares if we act in life with loving INTENTIONS. He knows before hand if our intentions are love or non-loving.

God is not ruled by our rules or any rules. We do not dictate what is sinful; God did this when He sent His son Jesus with a message of Love. And the way I interpret God’s message any act that is not out of love is sinful.

Remember, a sin is an offence against God and His law. The law says that God is love, we must treat others the way Jesus treat us. Therefore if we act out of love, regardless whether of not the doctrine is false, the fact that we are acting with the wrong intentions is an offence towards God.

He cares about the state of our soul and how well we understand His message. If we live life putting out INTENTIONS that do not root from Love we simply hurt our soul and therefore end up with “sin" in our heart.

As a side note, when you see the way our society celebrate holidays, specially the ones around God, like xmas and Easter, we are "adoring" the hype not the real reason behind the holiday. Im sure that if we celebrated xmas as the day when our Savior was born, the beginning of our salvation, there would be no Santa, no gifts, no marketing hype. So is it really that good for our soul to celebrate xmas the way we do today?, or should we understand that there is no love in spending money on a tree, or a gift or a red santa suit in order to observe Jesus birthday...Do you think God is pleased with our ways or are we offending God by choosing the "hype" instead of Jesus? Aren’t we choosing pleasure above love?

Ross:

Your post is full of great feelings and valid questions... My sister is a Lutheran Bishop, I kind of shared with her this topic and she left me with this question:

When Adam and Eve ate the apple, was the fact that they ate the apple what caused them to sin? What is that eating apples is sinful? Or was it that although we all know that eating apples is not sinful and might sound like a false doctrine today, the fact that God told them not to eat the fruit of this tree and they did anyway, caused them to sin?

Did the enemy know that our egos and the temptation behind wanting to be like God, know more than God caused Adam and Eve to have all the wrong intentions when they ate the apple?

Good questions