Tyndale's Translation of Ekklesia

[texian]

Tyndale's Translation of Ekklesia

William Tyndale (1494–1536) was the first to translate the Hebrew and the Textus Receptus Greek of the Bible into English, starting in 1525 with the New Testament. The verse wordings of the Geneva Bible and the King James Version are very similar to the Tyndale Bible verse wordings. But many differences in verse wordings between the three older English translations - the Tyndale, Geneva and King James Version - and the recent English translations are due to verse wording differences between the Textus Receptus and the Westcott-Hort 1881 Greek text. The Westcott-Hort Greek text was used for almost all recent Bible versions instead of the Textus Receptus.

On the issue of the translation of ekklesia, some of the early English translations did not use church, or earlier spellings of church, for ekklesia.

See: The Mysterious Word "Church" | Bein' a Berean

"John Wyclife, of Yorkshire, England, translated the first Bible into English in 1382, not from the original languages, but from the Latin. Therein, John translated the Latin word ecclesiam into chirche (in old English spelling):

And Y seie to thee, that thou art Petre, and on this stoon Y schal bilde my chirche, and the yatis of helle schulen not haue miyt ayens it. (Wyclife, 1382)"

In the Wyclife 1382 English Bible, translated from Latin, circe became chirche, pronounced "Kirkee."

The English translations that followed were:

Tyndale's Bible (1526) - used "congregation" consistently for ekklesia except for Acts 14: 13 and Acts 19: 37 where he used chirche, meaning a pagan place of worship.

And I saye also vnto the that thou arte Peter: and apon this rocke I wyll bylde my congregacion. And the gates of hell shall not prevayle ageynst it. (Tyndale, 1526, for Matthew 16: 18)

The King James Version for Matthew 16: 18 says "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

For Acts 14: 13 Tyndale (in modern English spelling) has: "Then Jupiters Priest which dwelt before their city brought ox and garlands into the churche porch and would have done sacrifice with the people."

Tyndale's spelling of "churche" is not corrected here to put it into Modern English spelling. "Churche" is apparently a variation on the spelling "chirche," from circe, the enchantress of Greek myth.

Here is Acts 19: 37 in the Tyndale Bible:
"For ye have brought hither these me which are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of your goddess."

Lets go back to the translation of ekklesia in Matthew 16: 18.

And I saye also vnto the that thou arte Peter: and apon this rocke I wyll bylde my congregacion. And the gates of hell shall not prevayle ageynst it. (Tyndale, 1526)

The King James Version for Matthew 16: 18 says "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

For Acts 14: 13 Tyndale (in modern English spelling) has: "Then Jupiters Priest which dwelt before their city brought ox and garlands into the churche porch and would have done sacrifice with the people."

Tyndale's spelling of "churche" is not corrected here to put it into Modern English spelling. "Churche" is apparently a variation on the spelling "chirche," from circe, the enchantress of Greek myth.

Here is Acts 19: 37 in the Tyndale Bible:
"For ye have brought hither these me which are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of your goddess."

Coverdale Bible (1535) for Matthew 16: 18 - used "congregation" "And I saie to ye: Thou art Peter, & vpo this rocke wil I builde my cogregacion: and ye gates of hell shal not preuayle agaynst it."

The Great Bible for Matthew 16: 18 (1540) - used "congregation" "And I saye also vnto the þt thou art Peter: & vpon this rocke I wil bylde my congregacion. And þe gates of hell shal not preuayle agaynst it."

Matthew Bible for Matthew 16: 18 (1549) - used "congregation" "And I saye also vnto the that thou arte Peeter: and vpon thys rocke I wil buylde my congregacion. And the gates of hell shall not preuayle against it."

The Bishops Bible for Matthew 16: 18 (1568) has "congregation" "And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke I wyll buylde my congregation: And the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaynst it."

But the Geneva Bible (1587) for Matthew 16: 18 - uses "church" "And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke I will builde my Church: and ye gates of hel shal not ouercome it."

At about the time of the Reformation,the word church for ekklesia was used by Theodore Beza in 1556, a Protestant, who followed John Calvin at Geneva, Switzerland. As a Calvinist, Beza followed the Catholic idea of the universal capital C church and supported this concept by using the word church instead of congregation. William Whittingham's Testament of 1557 followed Beza's usage of church. The first edition of the Geneva Bible as a revision of the Tyndale New Testament, translated ekklesia as church. The Geneva Bible followed Beza in translating ekklesia consistently as church instead of as congregation as Tyndale had done. The consistent translation of ekklesia as Church in the English Bibles apparently dates back to a Calvinist, Theodore Beza.

In 1557 the Geneva New Testament, produced by William Whittingham, translated "ekklesia" as "church." It is important to note the Protestant source of this translation.

Remember that the Bishop's Bible (1568) - used "congregation"

Note that the 1382 Wyclife Bible, which translated the Latin Bible, apparently Jerome's Fouth Century Vulgate, into the English of that time used chirche, prounced Kirkee, from circe, for the Latin ecclesia, which was from the Greek ekklesia.

Webster's Third New International Dictionary say the word “church” is in part from a Greek word related to Circe, the enchantress, pronounced Kirkee:

Church: Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice. From: Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, and Seven Language Dictionary.

"The proper name of the Greek enchantress Circe, whose attractive body transformed men into pigs, is mysteriously linked to the Old English word “church” – including the identical pronunciation:

“Circe - sorceress deity who transformed men into beasts, from Greek Kirke” (Webster’s, op. cit.).

In Greek mythology, Circe was a female enchantress, who lured men to her island place. She was known for her sensuality, her mastery of magic and potions, and in one legend she turned men into swine. The Sirens were also enchanted women who lured sailors to their deaths from the rocks on the island when they heard the intoxicating songs of the Sirens.

The ancient Greeks in their literature talked about men being aware of the danger of the hypnotic power of Circe and of the Sirens of the Sea. But sometimes the Greek sailors thought they were immune to the danger. This unwillingness to recognize the danger of being brought under a spell from something alluring is like the Strong Delusion that Paul warns about:

“…God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie… (II Thessalonians 2:11).

 

[childofdust]

What's the point of all this? The etymology of the name “church” is irrelevant to its usage and meaning. Over half the words we use every day have an etymology completely different than the word's actual meaning and common usage today. The English word “god” actually goes back to a pagan deity. But no Christian today (in their right mind) would think that if they used the word “god,” they were somehow worshipping another deity. In Christian usage, “god” means “YHWH, the deity of Israel.” So also, the English word “church” both in Tydale's time and in ours means a body/community/congregation/assembly of Christians. What's the problem?

 

[texian]

A doctrine in scripture is based upon the original meaning of the words in the language used by men inspired by God to describe that doctrine. When the Bible was translated into English the Greek words used for any doctrine of the New Testament should have been English words that are closest in meaning to the Greek words. This has to be true also for something called the ekklesia in Greek. William Tyndale used the English word congregation for ekklesia because it is closer in meaning to ekklesia than some other English words. It is certainly closer in meaning to ekklesia than church, derived from circe, a Greek enchantress, which was spelled cirche, churche, and pronounced kirkee.

Since the tradition of men called dispensationalism took over the majority of
Christian denominations by the mid 20th century, its teachings on the Church represent what
most Christians accept as the Church. For most Christians the Church is not just a meeting of those in born again Israel, but that now stands as a unique entity alongside Old Covenant Israel. And so, the Christian Church is seen as a unique entity like Old Covenant Israel or national Israel. A unique entity is a proper noun and is capitalized. A common noun is not capitalized. The Greek word ekklesia, meaning a meeting of some types of people is not a unique entity, is a common noun, even when translated to English in some way and so it is not capitalized. The word church was not capitalized in the King James Version. Tyndale consistently translated ekklesia in his 1526 Bible as congregation, except for Acts 14: 13, where he used "churche," and Acts 19: 37 where he used "churche" again for a pagan place of worship. Congregation is a common noun, not a propher noun because it is not a unique thing, and so is not capitalized.

Somewhere over time from the period of Middle English - 12th to 15th centuries - and the translation of the common noun ekklesia into chirche and finally church by about 1550, the church moved toward being the modern "Church," a unique thing as a proper noun. Wycliffe's Bible of 1382-1395 used Middle English in the translation of the Latin Vulgate Bible, where chirche was used for the Latin ecclesiam, from the Greek ekklesia. The spelling "chirche" in the 1382 Wycliffe Bible derived from circe, the Greek enchantress of mythology.

In the King James "church" is the English translation of the Greek
word ekklesia, Strong's number 1577, meaning "a calling out, i.e. a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven, or both), assembly, church." The calling out part of the original definition of the Greek word ekklesia was not limited to a calling out to God nor even to a calling out to a meeting of Christians, but meant a calling out to a non-religious meeting.

The ekklesia, eκκλησία, was the democratic citizen assembly of ancient Athens during its "Golden Age" (480–404 BC).

See: Ekklesia: A Word Study

"The most common classical usage of ekklesia and its cognates was as a political term, meaning an assembly of citizens. In the Greek city-state the citizens were called forth by the trumpet of the kerux (herald) summoning them to the ekklesia (assembly)."

"It should be noted that in ordinary usage, ekklesia meant the assembly, and not the body of people involved. The Boule existed even when it was not actually in session, but there was a new ekklesia every time they assembled.7 The demos (people) assembled in an ekklesia, but when they acted, it was said to be the action of the demos, not the ekklesia."

So, even the meaning of the Greek word ekklesia was that of the assembly and not the people assembled. The Greek word ekklesia was used in the Septuagint which is the Greek version of the Old Testament. The seventy-two who translated the OT Hebrew into Greek, called the Septuagint, around 280 B.C. used ekklesia for the Hebrew term, the "congregation of Israel." The ekklesia as a meeting or congregation of Old Covenant Israel was not something different from Old Covenant Israel. The ekklesia was just a meeting of Israel.

But things become confused when the ekklesia in the Greek New Testament becomes the capital C Church in Roman Catholicism.

The Catholic Church made the capital C Church equal to the elect, the Body of Christ. This meant that the ekklesia, the meeting, assembly or congregation was re-defined as being the Body of Christ, the people themselves who are supposedly saved.. Of course, the Catholics used Jerome's Latin Vulgate and the word ecclesiam, and in earlier periods did not use the English word chirche or church.. In doing so, the Catholic Church changed the meaning of ekklesia as a meeting to an institution of man replacing physical Israel. Physical Israel in scripture was not replaced by the meeting, now called the Church. Instead physical and national Israel was changed into Israel reborn in Jesus Christ, the Israel of God. That is, physical Israel was transformed into the Israel which is of God (Galatians 6: 16), to distinguish it from physical Israel as in Romans 9: 6-8, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel...They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God."

The Israel of the New Testament is born again in Christ Jesus (John 3: 1-7), something that was prophesied to take place by II Kings 21: 13 where God said he would wipe Jerusalem like wiping a dish and turn it upside down. This prophecy is stated in Isaiah 29: 16, which ties the turning of things upside down to the potter's clay, a reference to the parable of the potter in Jeremiah 18: 1-6. In Jeremiah 18: 6 God says "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter?" God has said in verse 4 that the vessel he had made, representing Old Covenant Israel, was marred in the hands of the potter, and so the potter, God, made it again, as it seemed good.

The meaning of ekklesia as a meeting, assembly or congregation does not match up with the original meaning of the word from which our word "church" derived which is from a pagan enchantress called circe and the place for pagan worship.

The meaning of church from ekklesia was re-defined to serve some purpose.

The early Christians, before the time of Origen (185–254 A.D), did not have an elite class of clergy above the "lay" mass of believer. The early church had leaders like Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp, but these men were not like our elite class of clergy, the priests, and preachers. The clergy came into control over the Christians after the time of Origen and the beginning of the Catholic Church. To be in control of the institution called the Church gave the clergy greater control over the Christian people. Not only the Church as a building, but also the church as an organized institution enabled the clergy to control the doctrines and practices of those claiming to be the people of God. The re-definition of ekklesia helped to make it possible for the elite class of clergy to gain great control over the Christian people.

The Catholic Church and the Church of England used the word “church” and its meaning as an institution and building to help keep the Christian people in subjection to their control, to their control of doctrines and practices. Without an institution and building building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. And so the word "Church" was important for the creation and survival of that institution and building over the centuries since the beginning of the Catholic Church.

Before the scriptures were tranlated into English, the Roman Catholics using Jerome's Latin Vulgate were referring to the translates the Greek ekklesia as Since the tradition of men called dispensationalism took over the majority of
Christian denominations by the mid 20th century, its teachings on the Church represent what
most Christians accept as the Church. For most Christians the Church is not just a meeting of those in born again Israel, but that now stands as a unique entity alongside Old Covenant Israel. And so, the Christian Church is seen as a unique entity like Old Covenant Israel or national Israel. A unique entity is a proper noun and is capitalized. A common noun is not capitalized. The Greek word ekklesia, meaning a meeting of some types of people is not a unique entity, is a common noun, even when translated to English in some way and so it is not capitalized. The word church was not capitalized in the King James Version. Tyndale consistently translated ekklesia in his 1526 Bible as congregation, except for Acts 14: 13, where he used "churche," and Acts 19: 37 where he used "churche" again for a pagan place of worship. Congregation is a common noun, not a propher noun because it is not a unique thing, and so is not capitalized.

Somewhere over time from the period of Middle English - 12th to 15th centuries - and the translation of the common noun ekklesia into chirche and finally church by about 1550, the church moved toward being the modern "Church," a unique thing as a proper noun. Wycliffe's Bible of 1382-1395 used Middle English in the translation of the Latin Vulgate Bible, where chirche was used for the Latin ecclesiam, from the Greek ekklesia. The spelling "chirche" in the 1382 Wycliffe Bible derived from circe, the Greek enchantress of mythology.

In the King James "church" is the English translation of the Greek
word ekklesia, Strong's number 1577, meaning "a calling out, i.e. a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven, or both), assembly, church." The calling out part of the original definition of the Greek word ekklesia was not limited to a calling out to God nor even to a calling out to a meeting of Christians, but meant a calling out to a non-religious meeting.

The ekklesia, eκκλησία, was the democratic citizen assembly of ancient Athens during its "Golden Age" (480–404 BC).

See: Ekklesia: A Word Study

"The most common classical usage of ekklesia and its cognates was as a political term, meaning an assembly of citizens. In the Greek city-state the citizens were called forth by the trumpet of the kerux (herald) summoning them to the ekklesia (assembly)."

"It should be noted that in ordinary usage, ekklesia meant the assembly, and not the body of people involved. The Boule existed even when it was not actually in session, but there was a new ekklesia every time they assembled.7 The demos (people) assembled in an ekklesia, but when they acted, it was said to be the action of the demos, not the ekklesia."

So, even the meaning of the Greek word ekklesia was that of the assembly and not the people assembled. The Greek word ekklesia was used in the Septuagint which is the Greek version of the Old Testament. The seventy-two who translated the OT Hebrew into Greek, called the Septuagint, around 280 B.C. used ekklesia for the Hebrew term, the "congregation of Israel." The ekklesia as a meeting or congregation of Old Covenant Israel was not something different from Old Covenant Israel. The ekklesia was just a meeting of Israel.

But things become confused when the ekklesia in the Greek New Testament becomes the capital C Church in Roman Catholicism.

The Catholic Church made the capital C Church equal to the elect, the Body of Christ. This meant that the ekklesia, the meeting, assembly or congregation was re-defined as being the Body of Christ, the people themselves who are supposedly saved.. Of course, the Catholics used Jerome's Latin Vulgate and the word ecclesiam, and in earlier periods did not use the English word chirche or church.. In doing so, the Catholic Church changed the meaning of ekklesia as a meeting to an institution of man replacing physical Israel. Physical Israel in scripture was not replaced by the meeting, now called the Church. Instead physical and national Israel was changed into Israel reborn in Jesus Christ, the Israel of God. That is, physical Israel was transformed into the Israel which is of God (Galatians 6: 16), to distinguish it from physical Israel as in Romans 9: 6-8, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel...They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God."

The Israel of the New Testament is born again in Christ Jesus (John 3: 1-7), something that was prophesied to take place by II Kings 21: 13 where God said he would wipe Jerusalem like wiping a dish and turn it upside down. This prophecy is stated in Isaiah 29: 16, which ties the turning of things upside down to the potter's clay, a reference to the parable of the potter in Jeremiah 18: 1-6. In Jeremiah 18: 6 God says "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter?" God has said in verse 4 that the vessel he had made, representing Old Covenant Israel, was marred in the hands of the potter, and so the potter, God, made it again, as it seemed good.

The meaning of ekklesia as a meeting, assembly or congregation does not match up with the original meaning of the word from which our word "church" derived which is from a pagan enchantress called circe and the place for pagan worship.

The meaning of church from ekklesia was re-defined to serve some purpose.

The early Christians, before the time of Origen (185–254 A.D), did not have an elite class of clergy above the "lay" mass of believers that came about later in the Catholic church. The early church had leaders like Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp, but these men were not like our elite class of clergy, the priests, and preachers. The clergy came into control over the Christians after the time of Origen and the beginning of the Catholic Church. To be in control of the institution called the Church gave the clergy greater control over the Christian people. Not only the Church as a building, but also the church as an organized institution enabled the clergy to control the doctrines and practices of those claiming to be the people of God. The re-definition of ekklesia helped to make it possible for the elite class of clergy to gain great control over the Christian people.

The Catholic Church and the Church of England used the word “church” and its meaning as an institution and building to help keep the Christian people in subjection to their control, to their control of doctrines and practices. Without an institution and building building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. And so the word "Church" was important for the creation and survival of that institution and building over the centuries since the beginning of the Catholic Church.

 

[hedrick]

I looked up ekklesia in TDNT and church in several online dictionaries. All the dictionaries gave etymologies for church going back to a pair of words meaning "God's house." No Circe. It was originally two words, which seem to have been cir and ce. Cir going back to Greek kyr for Lord.

Both have the same range of meaning, both individual congregation and the whole people of God. You're right that ekklesia comes from the word "call." But in actual use it meant a range of things, including both congregation and the whole people. for the latter see Acts 7:38 and particularly 9:31. "Church" includes both as well, whatever its etymology. "Congregation" makes sense for some passages but not all. Of course as Christianity grew, and international organizations developed, "church" took on a third meaning, referring to institutions beyond the local congregation. But that's not relevant in the NT period.

In the NT we didn't have world-wide institutions squabbling over who is really the true Body of Christ, so your whole debate isn't something that's reflected in NT wording. ekklesia means neither the Roman Catholic Church nor any Protestant competitor. It simply means the people of God, whether in one place or throughout the world.

 

[texian]

See: Church - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

"Origin of CHURCH
Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, ultimately from Late Greek kyriakon, from Greek, neuter of kyriakos of the lord, from kyrios lord, master; akin to Sanskrit śūra hero, warrior
First Known Use: before 12th century."

Kyriakos or kyriakon is a Greek word

Webster's Third New International Dictionary say the word “church” is in part from a Greek word related to Circe, the enchantress, pronounced Kirkee:

“church: Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice…from late Greek kyrikon” From: Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, and Seven Language Dictionary.

The proper name of the Greek enchantress Circe, whose attractive body transformed men into pigs, is linked to the Old English word “church” – including the identical pronunciation.

“Circe - sorceress deity who transformed men into beasts, from Greek Kirke”, Webster’s, op. cit..

See: Online Etymology Dictionary

"church (n.) Look up church at Dictionary.com
Old English cirice, circe "church, public place of worship; Christians collectively," from West Germanic *kirika (cf. Old Saxon kirika, Old Norse kirkja, Old Frisian zerke, Middle Dutch kerke, Dutch kerk, Old High German kirihha, German Kirche), probably [see note in OED] from Greek kyriake (oikia), kyriakon doma "Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord,"

See: Church??

"Some interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with "circum-". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse."

However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such—just as in numerous similar cases of words of Greek origin, e.g. cyst and kustis, cycle and kuklos, cylinder and kulindros. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in Netherlands as kerk."

See: Origin of the Term Church

"Now Webster says that the root of this word "church" is a Saxon word "circe, or circ, or cyric"..........Under "Circean" we find the following definition: "adjective; Pertaining to Circe, the fabled daughter of Sol and Perseis, who was supposed to possess great knowledge of magic and venomous herbs, by which she was able to charm and fascinate." Later editions of Webster's finally had the courage to enter the noun under which we find more information: "Circe noun [L., fr. Gr. Kirke.] In the Odyssey, an island sorceress who turned her victims by magic into beasts but was thwarted by Odysseus with the herb moly given him by Hermes-Circean, circaean adj.."

"Greek kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" was used of houses of Christian worship since c.300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilike. An example of the direct Greek-to-Germanic progress of many Christian words, via the Goths; it probably was used by West Germanic people in their pre-Christian period. "

Back around the time when the word circe or chirche was first used in an English Bible in 1382, for the Wyclife Bible, to translate the Latin ecclesiam a connection could have been made between circe, or chirche and the Greek word kyriakon or lord. Still, a word referring to a pagan goddess and pagan worship was used for ekklesia. Ekklesia means a calling out to a meeting, not necessarily a religious one, and especially meaning an assembly. Why not use assembly or congregation instead of a pagan term?

What are the traits that define the capital C Church, or Kirkee?

The Christian Church meets, almost always, in a specific building,
rather than
in someone's home, or in several homes in succession. And almost all
Christian Churches have more members who come to church than could fit
in a home of a Christian of modest or average means.

The second major
characteristic of the Christian Church is that it has one leader,
called a
preacher or priest, who controls the congregation and almost always
is the only
one who does the talking. Other seminary trained preachers are
sometimes
guest speakers. But in a Christian Church, in contrast to what is
shown in
Paul's assemblies in I Corinthians 14: 26, 29, 31, there is almost no
verbal participation in Christian Church services by the congregation
members,
except for singing. This is the third characteristic of a Church, little
participation by the congregation.

When all priests and almost all preachers are trained in seminaries, then the
seminaries have a great deal of control over the doctrines taught in the assemblies.
After the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 the false doctrines of the apostasy are
taught in the seminaries.

Acts 7: 48 teaches that "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in
temples made with hands; as saith the prophet." And Acts 17: 24
says "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he
is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands."

I Corinthians 3:9 says "For we are labourers together with God: ye
are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."

We are the temples of
God, we are his
"building." He wants us to be his building, not big expensive
structures that
are used only a few hours per week for Church services.

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the
temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and
walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(II Corinthians 6: 16)"

Paul in I Corinthians 14: 26 says "How is it then, brethren?
when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a
doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation.
Let all things be done unto edifying."

Paul is not talking about members of an assembly reciting a
psalm, explaining a doctrine, speaking in tongues, giving a revelation or an interpretation of Scripture in Sunday School. He is describing
participation by Christians who met together in his home churches in Corinth. Probably there was preaching of doctrine by the leaders of the small home church groups, especially by Paul's associates when they were in town. But still, the "preachers" seemed to allow participation by members of the small groups. In addition, there were men of some authority within these small groups who could step in when necessary to correct any false doctrines that members might bring up to the group.

Paul goes on to say in I Corinthians 14: 29 and 31 "Let the prophets
speak two or three, and let the other judge...For ye may all prophesy one
by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." He is talking again
about participation in home churches.

Priests and preachers would have less control over the doctrines held in an assembly of those claiming to be Christians if a great deal of participation were allowed. The priests and preachers must do all or almost all the talking in a meeting to have full control over the doctrines of the assembly.

A fourth defining trait of the Christian Church is that it is becoming more and more a copy of the world,
and of the government. This joining of the Church to the culture, attitudes, beliefs, ideologies and values of this world can be seen in John Hagee's Christians United For Israel, in the Mega Church Movement, in Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Mega Church, in Dominion Theology, and in other parts of
the evangelical community. Romans 13: 1-7 is being interpreted to mean
that church Christians should support and obey the government in whatever it does.

The metaphor of the woman of Revelation 17: 1-5 riding the beast in Revelation 17: 7 has been seen as Christianity in false doctrines joined to the world. God calls those in it who are his people out in Revelation 18: 4.

 

[childofdust]

A doctrine in scripture is based upon the original meaning of the words in the language used by men inspired by God to describe that doctrine. When the Bible was translated into English the Greek words used for any doctrine of the New Testament should have been English words that are closest in meaning to the Greek words. This has to be true also for something called the ekklesia in Greek. William Tyndale used the English word congregation for ekklesia because it is closer in meaning to ekklesia than some other English words. It is certainly closer in meaning to ekklesia than church, derived from circe, a Greek enchantress, which was spelled cirche, churche, and pronounced kirkee.

You do know that the word ekklesia is Greek, right? Where do you think the Greek language comes from? Christians? Christians took their use of Greek from demon-worshipping pagans. The Greek word ekklesia was used for HUNDREDS of years by demon-worshipping pagans before Christianity existed and before the Septuagint was written. It had many uses, but one of its primary uses was to describe the place where those demon-worshipping pagans gathered. Here's one instance of that use of ekklesia from 337 BC:

“If anyone — the Demos or the democracy in Athens overthrown — of the Councilors of the Areopagus goes up into the Areopagus or sits in the Council or deliberates about anything, both he and his progeny shall be deprived of civil rights and his substance shall be confiscated and a tenth given to the Goddess. The secretary of the Council shall inscribe this law on two stelai of stone and set one of them by the entrance into the Areopagus, that entrance, namely, near where one goes into the Bouleuterion, and the other in the Ekklesia.”
--translation from Athens, Agora I 6524 (Sculpture)

The fact that the word ekklesia referred to the meeting-place of demon-worshipping pagans doesn't change the fact that the word could also refer to the body/community/congregation/assembly of Christians 300 years later. Just as it doesn't change the fact that the English word “church” has a wide semantic range of meaning that makes it a perfectly acceptable translation of ekklesia.

So what's the issue?

 

[texian]

The Catholics made the ecclesia, the Latin word for the Greek ekklesia, into a system of control by a priest class over the doctrines and practices of the people who claimed to be Christians. Then the first translation of Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible into English by John Wycliffe in about 1382 used an early spelling of church as churche for the Latin ecclesia. John Wycliffe in England was part of a pre-Reformation movement that rejected some of the teachings of the Roman Catholic church, especially the Catholic refusal to allow the people to have Bibles. It would be interesting to find out something about the use of the English word churche by Wyclffe at that time and how he came to use it instead of assembly or congregation.

Then, Erasmus published his Textus Receptus in 1516 and in 1519 and in later editions. Martin Luther began the Reformation in 1517 and in 1522 Luther put out his German New Testament based on the Textus Receptus of Erasmus. William Tyndale maybe as early as 1522 began working on his English translation directly from the Textus Receptus for the New Testament. The Tyndale New Testament, the first English Bible translated directly from the Greek, appeared in about 1525.

Tyndale used congregation for ekklesia instead of the spelling of church as churche at that time. Tyndale was strangled and then burned at the stake by the Catholics for translating the Greek Textus Receptus and the Hebrew into English. It may be that his refusal to translate ekklesia as church, as Wycliffe had translated the Latin ecclesia as churche, also angered the Catholics who may have wanted to use churche and not congregation. But Tyndale was a man of God who gave his life for the Word of God in its purest form that was possible for him at that time.

The Catholic ecclesia, they said, replaced Old Covenant Israel.

But there are prophecies in the Old Testament which point to a change or transformation of Israel instead of its being replaced by something called the ekklesia, ecclesia or church. Israel was to be changed but it remained Israel as the people of God.

"And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down." II Kings 21: 13

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29: 16

"The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2. Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3. Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel." Jeremiah 18: 1-6

Then in Romans 11:1- 5 Paul says "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."

The prophecy of Jeremiah 18: 1-6 was fulfilled in the remnant of Israel who accepted Jesus Christ. Christ required those of Old Covenant Israel to be born again or changed to a spiritual state in him in order to become part of the kingdom of God, to become members of the elect (John 3: 1-10).

The Gentiles who in Ephesians 2: 2 are alienated from Israel in Ephesians 2: 13 are made close by the blood of Christ. In Romans 11: 17-22 the Gentiles who accepted Christ and were born again in him were "grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root." The root of the good olive is Christ and its branches are the remnant of Israel changed or transformed in Christ. The Gentiles then become part of the remnant of Israel.

In Romans 11: 17-20 those of Old Covenant Israel who were in unbelief, who rejected Christ, were cut off.

In accord with this teaching, Romans 2: 17-24, and especially 2: 28-29 says "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Romans 9: 6-8 says much the same thing in clearer terms, " Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Galatians 4: 25-26 affirms Romans 2: 28-29 and Romans 9: 6-8 in saying "For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

What does this fulfillment of II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6 have to do with the translation of ekklesia as church rather than as congregation or assembly?

The tradition of man called dispensationalism or Christian Zionism came along in the 19th century and began to teach that God now has two different peoples, Old Covenant Israel and the capital C Church. This teaching makes the Church into a people of God equal to Israel. And the dispensationalists insist that Israel in scripture must always be Old Covenant Israel and their implication is that Old Covenant Israel was never reborn in Christ.

But Christ who himself is the truth (John 16: 4) teaches in John 10: 16, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Romans 12: 5 says "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."

That there is one fold, one body of Christ, one group of the elect, is foundational to the Gospel. To teach that God now has two peoples, Israel and the Church, is teaching another Gospel (II Corinthians 11: 4, and especially Galatians 1: 6-9). Not only does dispensationalism teach that God has two groups of people, but it rejects the teachings of Paul in Romans 11, Romans 2, Romans 9 and Ephesians 2 that those of Old Covenant Israel in unbelief, who reject Christ, are not God's people. Paul clearly says in Romans 9: 8, "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God," and he is talking about what he said in Romans 9: 6, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."

The ekklesia is used almost always in the New Testament to refer to a particular congregation in a particular place. Colossians 1: 24 is one of the few exceptions, "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:"

In the parable of the seed in Matthew 13 Christ in verses 28-30 says to his disciples who asked if they should pull up the tares that " An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

So, Paul in Colossians 1: 24 is not stating as a doctrine that the church as an assembly or congregation is made up only of the elect. He cannot be teaching that the assembly, in which there are some who are of the elect and some who are not of the elect, is somehow only the elect.

And then in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 Paul teaches that "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

And in I and II Timothy Paul says in the last days some will depart from the faith, and speak lies (I Timothy 4: 1-2), that the time when they will not endure sound doctrine, but will want teachers who teach them what they want to hear (I Timothy 4: 3-4). In II Timothy 3: 8 he says they will resist the truth. Peter in II Peter 2: 1-3 is explicit in saying that there will be false prophets who bring in damnable heresies, or false doctrines, the way of truth shall be evil spoken of and the false prophets will make merchandise of you.

The elect, the Body of Christ, the saints, are all terms used to identify the saved people as being different from the tares.

After the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 the priests and preachers use what is called the church to teach false doctrines to the members of the church. Then, the tares become the majority in the church. But the tare church will still claim it is the authority and institution for bringing people to Christ.

Dispensationalism took over the majority of the evangelical denominations by the middle of the 20th century. For the majority the dispensatinalist church is the church, and even other denominations not controlled by dispensationalsim, tend to follow a concept of the church quite similar to the dispensationalists.

The authority of the dispensartionalist church to teach another Gospel to those still in it that belong to Christ has to be broken for them. Dispensationalism made the church into something equal Israel. In fact, God did not do away entirely with Israel when those who rejected Christ were cut off. The Israel of God (Galatians 6: 16) remained as the remnant of Israel. Dispensationalism is wrong in teaching that Jews who really become Christians remain separate from Gentiles in Christ, another indication of the theology being another Gospel. The remnant of Israel is not the meeting, the assembly or the congregation. It is the elect of God. The ekklesia is only a meeting of the elect of God.

 

[ebia]

If you want to build on etymology you might want to check it a little more carefully:

Church Origin Old English cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to Dutch kerk and German Kirche, based on medieval Greek kurikon, from Greek kuriakon (d?ma) 'Lord's (house)', from kurios 'master or lord'. Compare with kirk. (Oxford English Dictionary)

church noun 1 a building for public Christian worship. 2 the religious services held in a church. 3 (the Church) the clergy as a profession o enter the Church. 4 (often the Church) the clergy considered as a political group o quarrels between Church and State. 5 (usually Church) any of many branches of Christians with their own doctrines, style of worship, etc o the Methodist Church. 6 a the whole Christian establishment; b as adj o studying church history. ETYMOLOGY: Anglo-Saxon cirice: from Greek kyriakon (doma) the house of the Lord, from kyrios lord. (chambers English dictionary)

church /t??t?/ (say cherch) noun ... [Middle English churche, chirche, Old English cir(i)ce, cyrice, from Greek ky?riakon(doma) Lord's (house)] (Macquarie Australian English Dictionary)


Origin of CHURCH Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, ultimately from Late Greek kyriakon, from Greek, neuter of kyriakos of the lord, from kyrios lord, master; akin to Sanskrit ??ra hero, warrior First Known Use: before 12th century. (Merriam Websters) ...

 

[ebia]

Of course etymology doesn't tell you very much about meaning - but I'm sure you're a nice[/] person really.

 

[texian]

"Back around the time when the word circe or chirche was first used in an English Bible in 1382, for the Wyclife Bible, to translate the Latin ecclesiam a connection could have been made between circe, or chirche and the Greek word kyriakon or lord. Still, a word referring to a pagan goddess and pagan worship was used for ekklesia. Ekklesia means a calling out to a meeting, not necessarily a religious one, and especially meaning an assembly. Why not use assembly or congregation instead of a pagan term?"

There may not be enough information from history to know in any detail why John Wycliffe in 1382 used chuche for the Latin ecclesia instead of using an English word closer in meaning to the Greek ekklesia, such as assembly or congregation. Nor do we know if the Catholics who strangled William Tyndale did it in part because he used congregation instead of churche, though this might be true.

But ekklesia, eccelesia, circe, kyriakon, and churche were redefined in meaning long before 1382 by the Roman Catholics to make it into an institution of control by the church leaders and the priests under them. Then, in the 19th century dispensationalism or Christian Zionism placed the capital C Church in the role of being equal, or almost equal, to Israel. They insist that Israel must always be Old Covenant Israel.

Dispensationalism took over the majority of the evangelical denominations by the middle of the 20th century. For the majority the dispensatinalist church is the church, and even other denominations not controlled by dispensationalsim, tend to follow a concept of the church quite similar to the dispensationalists.

Revelation 18: 2, 4 calls the people of God out of the church in false doctrines, called Babylon. "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.....And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

God is calling his people out of what is metaphorically called "mystery Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth" in Revelation 17: 5, which is also the metaphoric woman in Revelation 17: 1-4. Interestingly, Revelation 18: 23 says that the light of a candle shall shine no more in Babylon, nor will the voice of the bridegroom and of his bride be heard there, while also saying that the merchants who are the great men of the earth, the world traders and the financial elite, are said to deceive the nations by their pharmakeia, translated as socrceries. Yet pharmakeia, in connection to the world traders, the huge international corporations, hints of the giant drug companies.

In the call to come out of the church in false doctrines, the authority of the dispensartionalist church to teach another Gospel to those still in it that belong to Christ is broken for this remnant in Christ still in Babylon.

Dispensationalism made the church into something equal to their Old Covenant Israel, when, in fact, God did not do away with Israel when those who rejected Christ were cut off. Contrary to dispensationalism, God did not create a new saved group called the church while keeping Old Covenant Israel as another different group of people belonging to him. What the followers of John Darby, C.I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer and others have done is teach that God now has two peoples, one of which is no longer his people because Old Covenant Israel was translated into the remnant of Israel (Romans 11: 5) in Christ - and what they call the church is not equal to the elect, the Body of Christ.

The Israel of God (Galatians 6: 16) remains as the remnant of Israel. The remnant of Israel is not the meeting, the assembly or the congregation. The remnant of Israel is the elect of God. The ekklesia is only a meeting of the elect of God. The remnant of Israel is said in Zephaniah 3: 2-13 not to speak lies or be deceitful. And in Revelation 14: 5 the 144,000 are without guile.

Guile is Strong's number 1388, dolos, a trick, bait, deceit, guile, subtilty. It is an old English word. The Dictionary definition of guile is "the use of
clever and usually dishonest methods to achieve something." It is
deception. We now live in an age of deception, and deception is
widespread in society. Deception is used effectively by the many
false prophets of Matthew 24: 11 to cause
their followers, the deceived, to accept the false doctrines of the deceivers.

The many false prophets of Matthew 24: 11, who make merchandise of those they deceive in II Peter 2: 1-3, are the priests and preachers of the church who are mostly trained in the false
prophet schools, the seminaries.

Followers of the false prophets come to use deceptive means of promoting and defending their false doctrines, which is a very important way they are different from the remnant of Israel, which is said not to use deception, even in this present age of deception.

 

[ebia]

"Back around the time when the word circe or chirche was first used in an English Bible in 1382, for the Wyclife Bible, to translate the Latin ecclesiam a connection could have been made between circe, or chirche and the Greek word kyriakon or lord. Still, a word referring to a pagan goddess and pagan worship was used for ekklesia. .

You're simply ignoring the evidence for the etymology of the word in favour of what suits your ranting.

The scholarly English dictionaries all agree that church is derived from Kyriakon - the house of The Lord. Not from a pagan goddesses's name that happens to look a bit similar.

 

[texian]

The Greek word ekklesia in the Third Century Septuagint was translated from the Hebrew word qahal, which means assembly or congregation. Exodus 12: 6: "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening."
Qahal is translated here as assembly and edah as congregation.

Stephen in Acts 7: 38 says "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spoke to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers..." Church in the King James was translated from ekklesia.

So Luke, like other New Testament writers, used the Greek word ekklesia from the Septuagint. Ekklesia in Greek is very close in meaning to the Hebrew word Qahal.

Tyndale for Acts 7: 38 has "This is he that was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina and with our fathers."

Tyndale's translation of ekklesia as congregation is accurate because congregation is one of two or three English words which best fit the meaning of ekklesia as an assembly or congregation. The calling out part of the definition of ekklesia means a callingg out to a meeting, not just God's calling a person out to be saved.

But the English word church for ekklesia does not fit nearly as well as does ekklesia with qahal or Tyndale's congregation with ekklesia.

The English word church seems to have first appeared as a translation of the Latin ecclesia in Wycliffe's 1382 Latin to English translation of the New Testament. What did "church" mean at that time? Was the use of the word church favored by the Catholics in England then? Church became an ecclesiastical word redefined by the clerical profession, the clergy.

On the site CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Church

which is the Catholic Encyclopedia where church is defined as "The term church (Anglo-Saxon, cirice, circe; Modern German, Kirche; Swedish, Kyrka) is the name employed in the Teutonic languages to render the Greek ekklesia (ecclesia), the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The derivation of the word has been much debated. It is now agreed that it is derived from the Greek kyriakon (cyriacon), i.e. the Lord's house, a term which from the third century was used, as well as ekklesia, to signify a Christian place of worship."

The Catholic Encyclopedia here avoids mentioning that the word church can also be traced back to circe a Greek enchantress. The Catholic Encyclopedia though claims that it is now agreed that the word church comes from kyriakon, the Lord's house, trying to imply that kyriakon always meant the God of the Bible, not a pagan lord. Tyndale understood the English Word churche in about 1525 to apply to pagan worship when he translated ekklesia in Acts 14: 13 and Acts 19: 37 as churche, meaning a pagan place of worship. In all other verses he translated ekklesia as congregation.

Translating ekklesia as church as Wycliffe did rather than as congregation as Tyndale did is not the whole problem with what the church became. There is no biblical justification for the institutionalized church that exists now. There is no doctrine in the scriptures for setting up a church institution of any kind which is like other man made institutions and is now incorporated under the Internal Revenue Service as a 501C(3) corporation.

The church as it now exists is a copy of what exists in the world, it is a copy of the structures of today's large corporate institutions. The church provides the institution for the priests and preachers to control what the church members believe is truth. In Revelation 13: 14-5 the second beast of Revelation 13, often called the False Prophet, who represents the many false prophets of Matthew 24: 11, causes people to make an image to the beast. An image is a copy of something. That something is the church becoming a copy of the world. Revelation 13: 14 also mentions that this image is to be made to the beast whose deadly wound was healed.

It is not absolutely necessary to prove that the word church was an inaccurate translation of ekklesia when more accurate words - assembly or congregation - could have been used as Tyndale did in order to show that the church today is a copy of the world and has lost its spiritual strength and its influence upon the morals of society. It is not necessary to show that the dispensationalist church is teaching another Gospel by comparing its doctrines to some New Testament scriptures. Dispensationalism is not the only form of false doctrine, but it is easy to compare with what several scriptures say.

But it is interesting to look at what the word church is derived from.

 

[ebia]

Stop repeating non-arguments and engage.

Not one scholarly source has been cited that suggests "church" is in any way derived from "Circe".

 

[texian]

“church [Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice…from late Greek kyrikon” (Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, and Seven Language Dictionary).

See: Y: The English word "CHURCH" comes from CIRCE!! - §1. ÊÎÍÑÈËÈÓÌ

"Here is the definition of the word "CHURCH" from the FINAL AUTHORITY on word meanings: the Oxford English Dictionary:

"CHURCH: FORMS: (a) cirice, cyrice, chiriche, churiche, chereche, (b) CIRCE, cyrce, chyrce, cirke, etc., etc.,
"The ulterior derivation has been keenly disputed. The L. circus, and a Gothic word kйlikn 'tower, upper chamber' (app. originally
Gaulish) have both been proposed (the latter suggested by the Alemannic chilihha), but are set aside as untenable; and there is now a general
agreement among scholars in referring it to the Greek word, properly kurion adj. 'of the Lord, dominicum, dominical' (f. Kurios lord), which
occurs, from the 3rd century at least, used substantively (sc. doma, or the like) = 'house of the Lord', as a name of the Christian house of
worship. Of this the earliest cited instances are in the Apostolical Constitutions (II. 59), a 300, the edict of Maximinus (303-13), cited by
Eusebius (Eccl. Hist. ix. 10) a 324, the Councils of Ancyra 314 (Canon 15), Neo-Caesarea 314-23 (Can. 5), and Laodicea (Can. 28).
Thenceforward it appears to have been in fairly common use in the East: e.g., Constantine named several churches built by him Kuriaka
(Eusebius De Laud. Const. xvii),"(Oxford English Dictionary).

CIRCE was a Greek goddess who turned men into PIGS."

This discussion of the origins of the word church continues. Go down to another part in English which
discusses the use of church and earlier spellings.

See: http://civ.icelord.net/read.php?f=3&i=63650&t=63650&v=f

On church this site says "Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However, to accept this. one has to stretch your imagination in an attempt to see any resemblance. Also, because kuriakon means a building (the house of Kurios=Lord), and not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, even if it is true."

Cirice is probably another spelling of circe. Churche as used by John Wycliffe in his 1382 English Bible is likely from "Circe." But what did the word "Circe" refer to? In his study, The Myth of Kirke, 1888, Robert Brown writes about Circe, which is a proper noun, in ancient Greek mythology and says it means "Circle" or "Circular." Circe referred to a building that was "circular," and also to a Goddess of ancient Greece. Kirke" or "Circe" was a mythical pagan Goddess who was the daughter of the Sun God.

See http://www.synagoguechm.com/drashot/vayakhel_pekudei_churchorsynagogue.pdf

"We also see in Greek mythology, Circe is a minor goddess of magic (or sometimes a nymph,
witch, enchantress or sorceress) living on the island of Aeaea. Circe's father was Helios (or Helius), the god of the sun...Circe transformed her enemies, or those who offended her, into animals through the use of magical potions. She was renowned for her knowledge of drugs and herbs."

”As seen in the picture on the left, it is said that Circe is pictured
holding a golden cup in her hand mixed with wine and drugs, by
which she controlled the kings of the world."

Revelation 7: 4 says "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:"

For those who are followers of dispensationalism's literalist view of scripture, fornication in Revelation 7: 4 is used metaphorically, for the metaphoric woman of Revelation 17: 1-4 accepting doctrines and practices not in accord with those of the God of the Bible.

It is interesting to note that Revelation 18:23 follows up this image of the metaphoric woman having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations in saying that the light of a candle no longer shines in her land, and the voice of the bridegroom and his bride are no longer heard. And the verse ends by saying "by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

The site shown above says that circe "...deceives the world with her spiritual “pharmakeia” (drugs) and brings
many under a great delusion."

 

[ebia]

You do realise that taking a scholarly citation that says "church comes from house of The Lord" and adding your own bit on the end about Circe doesn't count as a citation in favour of Circe?

 

[texian]

From: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Church

The Catholic Encyclopedia: The link is to a site called New Advent.org

"The term church (Anglo-Saxon, cirice, circe; Modern German, Kirche; Swedish, Kyrka) is the name employed in the Teutonic languages to render the Greek ekklesia (ecclesia), the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The derivation of the word has been much debated. It is now agreed that it is derived from the Greek kyriakon (cyriacon), i.e. the Lord's house, a term which from the third century was used, as well as ekklesia, to signify a Christian place of worship. "

The Greek word kyros, lord, is in the New Testament. But in the New Testament the Greek words translated as house are oikia, oikonemeo, iokodespotes, okis and panoiki.

The Greek word kuriakos is in the New Testament. It is found in I Corinthians 11:20 where it refers to "the Lord's supper," and once again in Revelation 1:10 where it refers to "the Lord's day." So, kuriakos means something of the Lord. Kuriakos is Strong's number 2960, "from 2962, belonging to the Lord. Number 2962, "kirios, from kuros, supreme in authority,, the controller, God, Lord, master, Sir."

Kuriakon apparently meant the lord or master of a property. Kuriakon referred to property belonging to a lord or master, for example, a building.

But the ekklesia refers to an assembly of believers - and some who are not yet in Christ and born again, but are interested. Easton's (1897) Bible Dictionary says "There is no clear instance of it (ekklesia) used for a place of worship, although in post-apostolic times it early received this meaning."

The word of God is absolute, it is fact, and unchanging. "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy Ghost." II Peter 1: 21

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" II Timothy 3: 16

"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7.

Since God himself inspired the words of the Bible and is able to preserve them, then man must not change those words. This means that a doctrine is established by the original meaning of the Hebrew or Greek words used to express that doctrine. A doctrine cannot be established or altered by the translation of a Greek word into English. This means that the Greek word ekklesia must be translated into an English word closest to the original meaning of ekklesia.

To argue or quarrel against this is the dialectic, which opposes and wants to compromise any statement that is absolute truth as is scripture, against that which is based on honest scholarship, and against absolute mortality.

Even if it is accepted that church derives from kyriakon, the lord's house, made into the Lord's house, we have problems with New Testament doctrine. If you go to the link below to the Oxford English Dictionary is says "CHURCH: FORMS: (a) cirice, cyrice, chiriche, churiche, chereche, (b) CIRCE, cyrce, chyrce, cirke, etc., etc.." Then, below this paragraph the Oxford English Dictionary says "CIRCE was a Greek goddess who turned men into PIGS!!"

The Roman Catholic Church emphasized the authority of the church hierarchy, the clergy, and the church as a building was part of the rule of the Church over the people. So the building for the Catholics would be God's house, like a temple of the Old Covenant.

But - "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet." Acts 7: 48

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." I Corinthians 3: 16-17

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" I Corinthians 6: 19

Church, whether derived from the Greek goddess circe or from kuriakon, originally meaning the house of a pagan lord, or from both, is an inaccurate translation of the original meaning of the Greek word ekklesia. A common noun, ekklesia, as meeting, assembly or congregation should not be made into a proper noun which has been done with the word church. A proper noun is a unique thing, like the name of a country or a person's name. The word meeting does not refer to a unique thing.

The church did not replace Old Covenant Israel, nor can the church stand now alongside Old Covenant Israel which was changed by Christ, and the prophecies in the Old Testament were fulfilled in the remnant of Old Covenant Israel who did accept Christ.