Tricks Theists Play (Part 2)

[Uber Genius]

Warning: This video will be offensive due to its manipulative nature and use of fallacy.

In the, "Evolution vs. God," movie, Ray Comfort treats us to an intellectual trick. He started by showing us various people claiming to believe in the theory of evolution. He then presents the following quote about "the scientific method."

"A scientific method is based on: a collection of data, observations and experimentation."

He then returns to the scientists and professors and students of differing science disciplines and ask them to show him data they collected through experimentation. When they struggle to answer or give an account of say a fossil record he points out that there explanation, "Has no experimental data, and is therefore just faith."

Of course we realize something has gone terribly wrong but unless we have some philosophy under our belts we are likely to miss the fallacious nature or trick that Comfort is playing.

First he assumes all scientific methods are the same. Of course this is false. Darwin points out that historical accounts can't make use of the same empirical methods as other hard sciences can. Also forensic sciences, archeology, anthropology, and theoretical physics rely on epistemic methods outlined by philosophy of science as to what counts as scientific knowledge in a particular scientific field.

Darwin uses an abductive approach where he looks at known modern causes and applies them to historical accounts as the best explanation of the data we have.

So experimental data such as enzyme evolution, Galapagos finch oscillation, fossil record and the like are a data. No evolution is not "a fact" it is a scientific "inference."

But his mistake is distributing "data collection through observation and experimentation" to ALL science methods rather than SOME.

Secondly he calls any "non-scientific method" (from his absurd reduction above, "Faith."

This is an aberration of the Christian use of the term across the last 2000 yrs.

FAITH IS NOT A WAY OF KNOWING SOMETHING!

When I trust my steering in my car will work it is based on tens of thousands of hours of driving experience and knowledge that my car has been properly maintained, Lexus' have good steering components, etc.

Hardly "no data." But "trust" is a result of knowledge, not a way of gaining knowledge.

People trust that evolution is the best inference of the data. They have faith that their professors aren't lying and neither are the text books.

So Ray Comfort's fallacy is known as a straw man. Point this out when you get the chance and don't use his fallacious approach to engaging anyone in discussions about theistic inferences!

"Who Would Jesus Maniuplate or Trick?" Is probably not the bracelet your are looking for as an ambassador for Jesus

 

[ShamashUruk]

Warning: This video will be offensive due to its manipulative nature and use of fallacy.

In the, "Evolution vs. God," movie, Ray Comfort treats us to an intellectual trick. He started by showing us various people claiming to believe in the theory of evolution. He then presents the following quote about "the scientific method."

"A scientific method is based on: a collection of data, observations and experimentation."

He then returns to the scientists and professors and students of differing science disciplines and ask them to show him data they collected through experimentation. When they struggle to answer or give an account of say a fossil record he points out that there explanation, "Has no experimental data, and is therefore just faith."

Of course we realize something has gone terribly wrong but unless we have some philosophy under our belts we are likely to miss the fallacious nature or trick that Comfort is playing.

First he assumes all scientific methods are the same. Of course this is false. Darwin points out that historical accounts can't make use of the same empirical methods as other hard sciences can. Also forensic sciences, archeology, anthropology, and theoretical physics rely on epistemic methods outlined by philosophy of science as to what counts as scientific knowledge in a particular scientific field.

Darwin uses an abductive approach where he looks at known modern causes and applies them to historical accounts as the best explanation of the data we have.

So experimental data such as enzyme evolution, Galapagos finch oscillation, fossil record and the like are a data. No evolution is not "a fact" it is a scientific "inference."

But his mistake is distributing "data collection through observation and experimentation" to ALL science methods rather than SOME.

Secondly he calls any "non-scientific method" (from his absurd reduction above, "Faith."

This is an aberration of the Christian use of the term across the last 2000 yrs.

FAITH IS NOT A WAY OF KNOWING SOMETHING!

When I trust my steering in my car will work it is based on tens of thousands of hours of driving experience and knowledge that my car has been properly maintained, Lexus' have good steering components, etc.

Hardly "no data." But "trust" is a result of knowledge, not a way of gaining knowledge.

People trust that evolution is the best inference of the data. They have faith that their professors aren't lying and neither are the text books.

So Ray Comfort's fallacy is known as a straw man. Point this out when you get the chance and don't use his fallacious approach to engaging anyone in discussions about theistic inferences!

"Who Would Jesus Maniuplate or Trick?" Is probably not the bracelet your are looking for as an ambassador for Jesus

Ray Comfort aka Way of the Master has some interesting videos and an equally interesting set of people he interviews.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Arise I say arise! (necroing the thread since we talked about it, and it probably has some good info for folks not on the board then)

 

[cvanwey]

Warning: This video will be offensive due to its manipulative nature and use of fallacy.

In the, "Evolution vs. God," movie, Ray Comfort treats us to an intellectual trick. He started by showing us various people claiming to believe in the theory of evolution. He then presents the following quote about "the scientific method."

"A scientific method is based on: a collection of data, observations and experimentation."

He then returns to the scientists and professors and students of differing science disciplines and ask them to show him data they collected through experimentation. When they struggle to answer or give an account of say a fossil record he points out that there explanation, "Has no experimental data, and is therefore just faith."

Of course we realize something has gone terribly wrong but unless we have some philosophy under our belts we are likely to miss the fallacious nature or trick that Comfort is playing.

First he assumes all scientific methods are the same. Of course this is false. Darwin points out that historical accounts can't make use of the same empirical methods as other hard sciences can. Also forensic sciences, archeology, anthropology, and theoretical physics rely on epistemic methods outlined by philosophy of science as to what counts as scientific knowledge in a particular scientific field.

Darwin uses an abductive approach where he looks at known modern causes and applies them to historical accounts as the best explanation of the data we have.

So experimental data such as enzyme evolution, Galapagos finch oscillation, fossil record and the like are a data. No evolution is not "a fact" it is a scientific "inference."

But his mistake is distributing "data collection through observation and experimentation" to ALL science methods rather than SOME.

Secondly he calls any "non-scientific method" (from his absurd reduction above, "Faith."

This is an aberration of the Christian use of the term across the last 2000 yrs.

FAITH IS NOT A WAY OF KNOWING SOMETHING!

When I trust my steering in my car will work it is based on tens of thousands of hours of driving experience and knowledge that my car has been properly maintained, Lexus' have good steering components, etc.

Hardly "no data." But "trust" is a result of knowledge, not a way of gaining knowledge.

People trust that evolution is the best inference of the data. They have faith that their professors aren't lying and neither are the text books.

So Ray Comfort's fallacy is known as a straw man. Point this out when you get the chance and don't use his fallacious approach to engaging anyone in discussions about theistic inferences!

"Who Would Jesus Maniuplate or Trick?" Is probably not the bracelet your are looking for as an ambassador for Jesus

Have to wonder... Why are you posting these in the apologetics forum, and not a Christian only arena?

.... Pretty safe to say many Christians here have already 'discounted' both Ray Comfort and Ken Ham's specific 'shenanigans' accordingly. Why include the unbeliever crowd?

When are you going to tackle William Lane Craig, Frank Turek, and other notables in the public arena? But even if you do, each and every theist/atheist/other, have many things to say; both 'correct' and 'incorrect'.

Not sure what your agenda is here?

 

[muichimotsu]

Have to wonder... Why are you posting these in the apologetics forum, and not a Christian only arena?

.... Pretty safe to say many Christians here have already 'discounted' both Ray Comfort and Ken Ham's specific 'shenanigans' accordingly. Why include the unbeliever crowd?

When are you going to tackle William Lane Craig, Frank Turek, and other notables in the public arena? But even if you do, each and every theist/atheist/other, have many things to say; both 'correct' and 'incorrect'.

Not sure what your agenda is here?

I remember watching some Way of the Master in my teens and how simplistic it was only encouraged my skepticism further in how clear it was they were selectively editing and presenting it in a way that appeals to people just wanting rhetoric