Traditions of Men/Traditions of God

sunlover1 · Apr 26, 2007

What are Traditions of Men.
What are the "Commandments of God"

Would things like Christmas,
Water Baptism, Altar Calls...
Wondering what some of the
'and many other' might be.

Or any insight you have regarding
Tradition of God verses Tradition
of men.

Thank you,
sunlover

Mark 7:8
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Oblio · Apr 26, 2007

What are Traditions of Men.

Anything that contradicts my personal interpretation of Scripture

Polycarp1 · Apr 26, 2007

Holy Tradition is the term used by the "liturgical" churches to reference the doctrines of the church that can be inferred from Scripture but are not explicit there. And it constitutes most of the belief of the majority of Christians: the Holy Trinity, the sacrificial Atonement of Christ, the Two Natures of Christ as fully God and fully man, whatever you believe about baptism and the eucharist, all the doctrines of ecclesiology and soteriology and most of those of pneumatology... Most notably, the idea that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God is most emphatically tradition, as Scripture does not in fact say this of itself.

All Church holidays except Pentecost are tradition, not Scriptural -- but the first day of the week as the time when Christians gather is in fact Scriptural.

In point of fact, those who say they hold strictly to Scripture rather than to Tradition are either violating the CO posting rules or deceiving themselves.

sunlover1 · Apr 26, 2007

Oblio said:
Anything that contradicts my personal interpretation of Scripture

sunlover1 · Apr 26, 2007

Polycarp1 said:
Holy Tradition is the term used by the "liturgical" churches to reference the doctrines of the church that can be inferred from Scripture but are not explicit there. And it constitutes most of the belief of the majority of Christians: the Holy Trinity, the sacrificial Atonement of Christ, the Two Natures of Christ as fully God and fully man, whatever you believe about baptism and the eucharist, all the doctrines of ecclesiology and soteriology and most of those of pneumatology... Most notably, the idea that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God is most emphatically tradition, as Scripture does not in fact say this of itself.

Thanks Poly, I hadnt thought along those
lines, hmm. I hope we can still
work this out.

All Church holidays except Pentecost are tradition, not Scriptural -- but the first day of the week as the time when Christians gather is in fact Scriptural.

Yeah, I realise most of the stuff is 'tradition"
But I wouldn't think that Jesus was
just making a blanket condemnation
of tradition, but rather that which was
against what God desired... ?

In point of fact, those who say they hold strictly to Scripture rather than to Tradition are either violating the CO posting rules or deceiving themselves.

CO posting rules?
Posting rules don't mention tradition.
And what do you mean if someone
holds to scripture rather than tradition
they're deceiving themselves.
That sounds odd to say.... no?

thanks
sunlover

SpiritDriven · Apr 26, 2007

The strivings and doings and workings of men.....are as dust and ashes blowing in the wind, there is no life in them.

Oblio · Apr 26, 2007

CO posting rules?
Posting rules don't mention tradition.

Aside from Holy Scripture, the Nicean Creed (affirmation of which is required to post in CO areas) is paramount in the Tradition of the Church.

kept · Apr 26, 2007

I tend to think traditions often come from very real experiances and revelation given by God

but when men take them and try and maintain them without the Spirit of God they turn into nothing but a lifeless tradition

also what might be life to me where I am at in my walk with God might not be anything to someone else in a different place with God

personally I live in a tent , always ready to move at any moment and take apart the pile of rocks I piled up yesterday to throw at a giant today

kept

Polycarp1 · Apr 26, 2007

Oblio said:
Aside from Holy Scripture, the Nicean Creed (affirmation of which is required to post in CO areas) is paramount in the Tradition of the Church.

Thanks, my Orthodox friend. That's exactly what I meant: while all the statements of the Nicene Creed can be inferred from Scripture (see the relevant rule for references), the Creed itself is a key part of Tradition as it is properly honored in the church. What I meant by my comment is that people who claim to hold strictly to Scripture and not Tradition are in fact holding to their own or their own church's tradition regarding Scripture -- it's inescapable in defining the tenets of Christian belief.

sunlover1 · Apr 26, 2007

Oblio said:
Aside from Holy Scripture, the Nicean Creed (affirmation of which is required to post in CO areas) is paramount in the Tradition of the Church.

But the Nicene Creed is just based
on the Bible and what we believe.

I am looking for examples of what
might be traditions of men that
Jesus might take issue with, as
He was taking issue with 'tradition'
in the NT.

thanks
sunlover

Oblio · Apr 26, 2007

But the Nicene Creed is just based
on the Bible and what we believe.

As is the rest of Holy Tradition

Tamara224 · Apr 26, 2007

Well, look at the context... Jesus noted that the Pharisees, to whom He was speaking, had a tradition about washing the outside of pots and cups prior to eating/drinking from them.

The Pharisees had this tradition and they turned it into a man-made law which they used against other people. They condemned other people for not following that "law". Jesus didn't care if the Pharisees washed the outsides of the cups...He didn't say to leave them dirty. He cared that the Pharisees turned it into a law and thereby burdened the people. Jesus said this type of behavior actually hinders people from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

I think that is what Jesus had a problem with; not traditions in the broad sense of the word (which could include anything from Christmas to a particular person's tradition of always going bowling on their birthday).

It's when the traditions get exalted to the place of Law (legalism) that it becomes a problem. Jesus lambasted the Pharisees on multiple occasions for that behavior.

Some that are prevalent in certain circles of Churchianity today are: prohibitions on drinking; compulsory tithing; and dressing in your "Sunday best" for service.

I agree with the poster who noted that we all have our own traditions. I was raised Pentecostal and although most Pentecostals would disavow any 'traditions' in their services, the fact is that they have plenty and they've turned many of them into "laws". I think if we all take an honest look at our own denominations we'll find instances of the same thing.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 26, 2007

Well, look at the context... Jesus noted that the Pharisees, to whom He was speaking, had a tradition about washing the outside of pots and cups prior to eating/drinking from them.

Matt 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead [men's] bones and all uncleanness.

Reve 18:13 "and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.

sunlover1 · Apr 26, 2007

Tamara224 said:
Some that are prevalent in certain circles of Churchianity today are: prohibitions on drinking; compulsory tithing; and dressing in your "Sunday best" for service.

So you believe that Jesus, if He were
to visit your church , and heard the
ministers giving the tithing speech,
He'd get indignant?

That cup washing wasnt the only place
He spoke up about traditions.

I think you're onto something, thanks!

sunlover

Jipsah · Apr 26, 2007

sunlover1 said:
What are Traditions of Men.
What are the "Commandments of God"

Commandments of God are the doctrines I hold to be true. Traditions of Men are what anyone who disagrees with me believe.

Hentenza · Apr 26, 2007

Oblio said:
Aside from Holy Scripture, the Nicean Creed (affirmation of which is required to post in CO areas) is paramount in the Tradition of the Church.

Well why don't we just change the name then to the EO forums.

Theophorus · Apr 26, 2007

sunlover1 said:
I am looking for examples of what
might be traditions of men that
Jesus might take issue with, as
He was taking issue with 'tradition'
in the NT.

thanks
sunlover

The traditions that do not follow the path of virtue/Christ. The traditions that strain the gnat but swallow the camel.

I can't give you an example, because I would break the rules

repentant · Apr 27, 2007

sunlover1 said:
So you believe that Jesus, if He were
to visit your church , and heard the
ministers giving the tithing speech,
He'd get indignant?

That cup washing wasnt the only place
He spoke up about traditions.

I think you're onto something, thanks!

sunlover

I don't know what she meant by "compulsory tithing" and tithing I assume is giving to your Church, but this is clearly Scriptural. Giving to the Church I mean. What she means by "compulsory" I don't know..

repentant · Apr 27, 2007

Hentenza said:
Well why don't we just change the name then to the EO forums.

So by this sarcasm, do you deny the Nicene Creed?

Hentenza · Apr 27, 2007

repentant said:
So by this sarcasm, do you deny the Nicene Creed?

Nope, I deny the traditions that are not rooted in scripture.

Traditions of Men/Traditions of God

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