The Wiccan Summerland?

[Airisu]

Alright, I'm a Wiccan and today while doing some research on Wicca I was wondering about Summerland (A Pagan heaven) vs. The Christian Heaven. I don't really don't want a debate on which is better or anything, but if someone could kindly compare/contrast the two, I'd be thankful. Anything about Summerland/Faeryland would be great, however

 

[Fuzzy]

Hopefully no one will view this as promotion, since it is a compare/contrast issue.

Summerland:
This varies within Wicca, dependent on one's tradition. The consensus trends towards
the idea that the Summerland is a place where souls without an incarnation wait, and
rest, and contemplate whatever they learned during their incarnations. It's usually
described as a place of hills, meadows, and forests, generally a 'natural' sort of place.
There's no sense of "reward" or "punishment" to it, it just is, like a train station
or a big open field.

Heaven (and I happily invite Christians to correct me on this one):
A place of glory, with no pain, disease, sexuality, dperession, or anything that
causes grief. People are in the presence of God.

How one gets to Heaven, in my understanding, varies from denomination to
denomination, with an emphasis on being a "good" person, having a relationship
with the divine, and possibly doing good acts for others or following the sacraments.
The simplified path is if you're a good person, and do what's right in the eyes
of God, you go to Heaven.

Now, as far as differences....
For those that go to the Summerland, everyone goes at least once, tying in with
the tradition of reincarnation in Wicca. And everyone goes, since there's no "good"
afterlife or "bad" afterlife, it just is.

For those that seek Heaven, some groups teach you go straight there dependent on
your relationship with God, others that there may be some time in Purgatory first,
and others that only a few, previously chosen get in. A common factor here is that
those who go to Heaven have a favorable relationship to divinity, since Heaven is
a "reward" place.

 

[CoatOfColors373]

Any Questions Let me know, But Here is some Scripture About Haven (Christian)

Revelation - King James (Authorized) Version
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
21:18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.
21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21:21 And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Cerridwen]

I agree with what Fuzzy said. I'm not sure about the OP's reference to "Faeryland"-as the Fey exist alongside the rest of us in 'this' world, just frequently unseen.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[XxAuroraxX]

i couldn't have said it any better than 'fuzzy' even if i had tried!

 

[SquareC]

i couldn't have said it any better than 'fuzzy' even if i had tried!

I did try and couldn't come up wth anything to add!

 

[StaySalty]

Hi Airisu and everyone viewing this forum:

The honest difference between heaven and summerland is the difference between the truth and a lie.

The truth is that God, who made us, has given EVERYONE who believes in His Son Jesus Christ eternal life.

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1 John 5:11-12

Concerning those who reject the Son, He says they will not see life. We find in Isaiah God says:

And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me.

22 "Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
Isaiah 45:21b-22

 

[StaySalty]

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:22

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44


There is absolutely NO summerland, it is a lie! A total LIE! Trust God, He sent His Son Jesus to die for you! Christ Jesus wants to purchase you for God, with His own blood He did this on the cross. Don't believe the devils lie, trust God, He has wonderful plans for you! Plans to prosper you and do you no harm (read Jeremiah).


Rejecting the Son only leads to death, you will not go to summerland, but to God to be put to shame. God says:

23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.

24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' "
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
Isaiah 45:23-24

 

[Myah]

[

There is absolutely NO summerland, it is a lie! A total LIE! Trust God, He sent His Son Jesus to die for you! Christ Jesus wants to purchase you for God, with His own blood He did this on the cross. Don't believe the devils lie, trust God, He has wonderful plans for you! Plans to prosper you and do you no harm (read Jeremiah).

Ahem..how wonderfully constructive this comment is..and how well supported. [/sarcasm]

This thread was meant to view comparison of belief, not hold one higher than the other.


BTW: Fuzzy...GREAT post.

 

[StaySalty]

Ahem..how wonderfully constructive this comment is..and how well supported. [/sarcasm]

This thread was meant to view comparison of belief, not hold one higher than the other.


BTW: Fuzzy...GREAT post.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 3:36

Friend, I understand the intent of this forum. But this is not a simple comparison like "do you prefer chocolate or strawberry?" This is a matter of truth. Scriptures are God's word, God does not lie, it is impossible for Him to do so, our support is in what He says.

17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.
Hebrews 6:17-19

Who doesn't want truth? Truth will affect you simply because it is truth.

 

[Myah]

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 3:36

Friend, I understand the intent of this forum. But this is not a simple comparison like "do you prefer chocolate or strawberry?" This is a matter of truth. Scriptures are God's word, God does not lie, it is impossible for Him to do so, our support is in what He says.

17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.
Hebrews 6:17-19

Who doesn't want truth? Truth will affect you simply because it is truth.

Hun, I'm Wiccan..so quoting scripture at me does you no good whatsoever. Your truth differs from mine and it's not your place to decide which truth takes precedence over the other.

Sorry about derailing the thread, all...I'll go back to lurking

 

[StaySalty]

Hun, I'm Wiccan..so quoting scripture at me does you no good whatsoever.

Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
Hebrews 4:7


To all, I understand that this is a compare/contrast between 2 different beliefs. I also understand that you never wanted this to become a "my 'religion' is better", right?

However, you must realize something. As a Christian, we are not people who walk around following what we think is best. We are people who have denied ourselves, to believe and follow what God says is best. That is why I quote scripture.

And this is not to harass you either. If that is the way I've come across, then I am sorry.

God wants us to believe Him. To believe that He loves us, and believe that He has given us eternal life in Christ Jesus.

 

[Fuzzy]

Cerridwen - With reference to the "Faeryland" aspect, I've read
texts where "Summerland"="Otherworld," and "Otherworld"="Faeryland"
Maybe the OP did too?

StaySalty-This was, originally, a "compare/contrast" request, and the OP did
ask it not become a "my religion is better" issue. She just wanted raw
information. Thank you for your time, though.

 

[StaySalty]

Cerridwen - With reference to the "Faeryland" aspect, I've read
texts where "Summerland"="Otherworld," and "Otherworld"="Faeryland"
Maybe the OP did too?

StaySalty-This was, originally, a "compare/contrast" request, and the OP did
ask it not become a "my religion is better" issue. She just wanted raw
information. Thank you for your time, though.

I am not interesting in saying "my religion is better", because that would appear to elevate myself. I am not promoting myself, but God.

Consider Paul, he was journeying down the Damscus road to persecute Christians, which he believed was what God desired. But He was stopped and blinded by Christ, who asked Him "why are you persecuting me?"

Paul was zealous 'his' own personal beliefs. Yet, those beliefs turned out to be untrue.

Alot of Christians (before we really knew Christ) start out thinking our own beliefs, and the 'rational human' thing to do is to say, 'let's have a roundtable discussion of what you think versus what i think' etc. No one is right, no one is wrong, everyone wins!

And to us all, that might seem like a reasonable way of doing things. However, we are excluding one major person, that is...God!

God speaks truth, God is not human, He is not mortal, He is not limited by anything or anyone, and everything ever made was made by Him and for Him. We also have an enemy, the devil, who always tells us lies for our own harm. ALWAYS!

God says you can eat fruit of any tree EXCEPT the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Don't eat or touch that, or you will die.

The devil says "you won't really die...God just doesn't want you to know what He knows."

God says believe in His Son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved and go to heaven.

The devil says "just be good, and God will let you in." or "there are many different heavens, there isn't really good or evil, it's all relative."

God wants you to believe Him. The devil only wants you to not believe God. Believe yourself or someone else, or nothing at all, or whatever you want..just don't listen to God.


Don't by his lies, he is your enemy and he hates you. God loves you, he sent his own Son to die for you, he has NO PLEASURE in your punishment but only desires that you repent and follow Him.

We really can't discuss lies and truth lightly, we are called to trust God and listen to Him, He speaks truth and truth will affect us all.

Just as a shining light and a pitchblack room can't exist together, neither can God's Words and the devils lies discussed equally. One will affect the other, God's word will expose the devils lies.

 

[SquareC]

I am not interesting in saying "my religion is better", because that would appear to elevate myself. I am not promoting myself, but God.

And yet despite the fact that you say you aren't interested in that, that's exactly what you are doing. You are frankly violating the request of the OP, who stated:

I don't really don't want a debate on which is better or anything, but if someone could kindly compare/contrast the two, I'd be thankful.

I suppose it could be said that you aren't debating on which is better, because your mind is closed to all other. You are violating the purpose of the thread and the request of the OP. She didn't want to be told that the Summerlands are a lie, she wanted to hear what it was and what it was about, compared to the Christian Heaven. If you want to talk about how the Summerlands are a lie, then start your own thread on that. We'll probably come and debate it with you there. But show some respect to the OP and stop this rhetoric you are spouting.

 

[malkaviananatole]

i am a chatholic and have been reading this thread because i am interested in wicca and was wondering what summerland was, i must say that most people have given increadible answers (which seem to be very impartial). although i find it outright disrespectful for some people to ignore the request of a contrast/compare and begin spouting scripture. although since the bibles dating of mans creation is nowhere near as old as fossils have proven man is, i mus say that staysalty's devotion is a wonderful thing....or perhaps its borderline psychotic...

but anyway on to my question. i heard something from a friend of mine about summerland, he said that you cant get in (or maybe it was that it takes longer) if you dont have any scars. this had something to do with the scars proving you have lived and shed blood willingly. is there any truth to this???

 

[morningstar2651]

i am a chatholic and have been reading this thread because i am interested in wicca and was wondering what summerland was, i must say that most people have given increadible answers (which seem to be very impartial). although i find it outright disrespectful for some people to ignore the request of a contrast/compare and begin spouting scripture. although since the bibles dating of mans creation is nowhere near as old as fossils have proven man is, i mus say that staysalty's devotion is a wonderful thing....or perhaps its borderline psychotic...

but anyway on to my question. i heard something from a friend of mine about summerland, he said that you cant get in (or maybe it was that it takes longer) if you dont have any scars. this had something to do with the scars proving you have lived and shed blood willingly. is there any truth to this???

I think your friend might be confusing the Summerlands with Valhalla. It's my belief that everyone goes to the Summerlands upon death. There are no entry requirements (except, of course, being dead) and there is no waiting period to go there.

 

[kangitanka]

i am a chatholic

And, totally off topic, your an RPG gamer!
W00T!

I'll return you now to your regularly scheduled thread

 

[kangitanka]

I am not interesting in saying "my religion is better", because that would appear to elevate myself. I am not promoting myself, but God.

Your contradiction is quite clear
You are promoting your deity (according to your own words)
Hence, you are saying that your deity is "better"
Hence you are promoting your religion
You may call it a "personal relationship", but it's still religion.

And to us all, that might seem like a reasonable way of doing things. However, we are excluding one major person, that is...God!

No it's not a reasonable way of doing things, since we are excluding one major person...Wakan Tanka!
O wait

We also have an enemy, the devil, who always tells us lies for our own harm. ALWAYS!

Thank you for your personal christian eisegesis interpretation.
It's noted

God says you can eat fruit of any tree EXCEPT the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Don't eat or touch that, or you will die.

Quite right
But of course, your christian eisegesis misinterprets that story

Just as a shining light and a pitchblack room can't exist together, neither can God's Words and the devils lies discussed equally. One will affect the other, God's word will expose the devils lies.

But when one is in a pitchblack room, one can light so many candles that they end up burning their house down and dying because of their need for light.

Sorry, but one bad metaphor deserves another

 

[malkaviananatole]

Heaven (and I happily invite Christians to correct me on this one):
A place of glory, with no pain, disease, sexuality, dperession, or anything that
causes grief. People are in the presence of God.

How one gets to Heaven, in my understanding, varies from denomination to
denomination, with an emphasis on being a "good" person, having a relationship
with the divine, and possibly doing good acts for others or following the sacraments.
The simplified path is if you're a good person, and do what's right in the eyes
of God, you go to Heaven.

just to add something to what fuzzy said, many catholics believe that if you have not been baptised you can not get into heaven, you go straight to hell, but personally i think thats BS.